Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Beijing

doctorj · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

juw177 said:
Ignorant because she does not know much about China and jumping on bandwagon.

No one does because international media access to China and freedom of the Chinese press is so limited.

What does make it out are stories of human rights abuse, violence, intimidation and many other morally offensive things.

A quick search of Google shows that there are reports of human rights abuse in the contemporary media dating back to 1959.

2020hindsight · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Prospector said:
I thought she just said that if she was a competitor now she would not be competing. Well, that was what she said on the ABC tonight.

Prospector,
I agree - Certainly she said that (and possibly since then she has said more than that maybe? ) - but in any case, it's one thing for a spectator to boycott the games (big deal) and another for a sportsperson. (who has trained for 4 years for this).

Certainly in the ABC video she says the following (in answer to a question unheard) "well the best thing for them to do about it, if they feel as strongly about it as they feel they do (?) .. is not to go to Beijing and that is a strong boycott within themselves - not that they are being asked to boycott by anyone, or by the Olympic Federation - but if they feel as strongly as that then they shouldn't go - because they are not going to enjoy Beijing, not going to enjoy the Olympic Games, and they are not going to perform well.

"Myself personally, I would be thinking twice about it, because I feel very strongly and I support the Tibetans, and I do believe that China is not doing the right thing by them as far as their human rights are concerned."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/09/2211827.htm
click on video :"Dawn Fraser on whether she would boycott Beijing. See the full interview on ABC TV's Midday Report". (ABC News)

Midday Report not available as transcript yet.

PS As per A2A'a first post..

"As a spectator, I am making my own statement by not going," Fraser told AAP.

"I support the Tibetans [but] I don't support the violence that the protesters are creating.

2020hindsight · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Aussie2Aussie said:
Dawn Fraser : ....

Local interest in the Games will remain strong even if the International Olympic Committee cuts the torch relay short, Fraser said.

"Here in Australia we are sport mad and we will watch the Olympics [on television] whatever happens in China," she said..

Hey - surely a TRUE boycott is not to watch it

(PS I'd call that a sham protest Dawn, and lacking in cred )

Fellow former Olympic swimmer Susie O'Neill has also spoken out over the torch controversy, saying the relay had been hijacked by protesters and should be scrapped.

"Everyday, everybody is talking about the Olympics but you've got bad publicity. So I'd probably just scrap it if it was me," O'Neill told ABC radio today.

"In retrospect I suppose it was pretty obvious that it was going to happen, [but] I just get a little bit angry when people use the Olympics as their protesting forum. It's so removed from politics."

:iagree:

doctorj · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Would people have the same qualms about people not going to the olympics if it were being held in say, Zimbabwe, instead of China?

Australian cricketers haven't been going to Zim for some time, but it hasn't provoked the same protests as refusing to go to China for the Olympics.

2020hindsight · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

dj,
I posted somewhere that I didn't blame the cricketers for not going to Pakistan.

To be honest I was thinking (mainly) that their safety couldn't be guaranteed (rather than political protest).

PS I'm not aware of any sportsmen/women who have refused to go to Beijing yet, have you? (I've not long got home from work )

2020hindsight · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

ps ..
Main reason she's not going to go to Beijing is probably that she's too old to climb flagpoles ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_Fraser

In 1965 Fraser retired from swimming, after the Australian Swimming Union placed her under a ten-year ban. Things had come to a head when, at the Tokyo Olympics, she marched in the opening ceremony against their wishes, wore an old swimsuit (which angered sponsors) because it was more comfortable, and, it was alleged, she climbed a flagpole in Emperor Hirohito’s palace, taking the Olympic flag.

Julia · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

2020hindsight said:
"Myself personally, I would be thinking twice about it, because I feel very strongly and I support the Tibetans, and I do believe that China is not doing the right thing by them as far as their human rights are concerned."

.

I've just picked out this part of 2020's post for convenience, not especially directing the question at you, 2020 but rather to everyone who has stated their "support for Tibet".

Perhaps I'm ignorant and ill informed or perhaps I've just not been all that fascinated, but could someone please explain to me just what they are supporting Tibet over?

I hear "human rights" frequently. Could you describe exactly how China is denying Tibetans human rights?

What else do Tibetans want?

I'm not in any way challenging the view that Tibet has a case against China. I'm just unclear as to exactly what China is doing to Tibetans?

With thanks.

Aussie2Aussie · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

juw177 said:
None intended. I'm done with this silliness.

Was pointing out that he does not speak too kindly of minorities and the Chinese, apologies for the wrong use of words. And it looks like Aussie2Aussie just can't just let it go and makes a new thread on it.

Show me one example!

You wont because they dont exist. You trust that others wont look, while you make untrue statements.

You are truly a pathetic individual juw. Dont apologise when your intent was clear and you got called on it.

It appears to me that only one racist appears constantly on this site, review your own rants while you are at it.

Aussie2Aussie · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

juw177 said:
Ignorant because she does not know much about China and jumping on bandwagon.

What would you know of her knowledge on anything??

Why jumping on the bandwagon - because her view is different to yours.

Bill M · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Julia said:
Could you describe exactly how China is denying Tibetans human rights?
With thanks.

Tibetan monks and children killed by Chinese troops
SOURCE

It said an 18-year-old monk was killed and a 30-year-old monk was critically injured when security agents fired into the gathering.
SOURCE

Tibet's exiled government said Saturday that about 30 people had been killed during unrest in Lhasa, as Chinese troops locked down the city amid fierce international scrutiny ahead of the Olympics.
SOURCE

These are just a few of many similar reports.

Aussie2Aussie · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

And it is not just Tibet, lets not forget Chinas active support for North Korea, the Burmese military government and whats happening in Sudan to mention just a few.

Now before I get taged for being a racist agian, juw who sees everything in black and white (really) will come back with his usual racist slurs against me but put simply I am not a fan of Chinas foreign policy and never have been.

If it makes you feel better juw, I dont agree with the US governements policy in Iraq nor on how they handled Afganistan and the Americans arent Chinese although they do have a large percentage of hispanics and negros - so I guess you can get me on that one.

The Chinese government actually believes the crap they put out about what a great bunch they are so they are absolutely shocked when others attack them, the same goes for the chinese people because they dont actually know everything that the government does due to censorship, not only at home but abroad as well.

juw177 · 9 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Aussie2Aussie, please relax, it is only an internet forum. You dont need to take this so personally. It is not like you involved in the Olympics or is affected as a result of what is happening abroad.

It seems there are 2 versions of that original article. smh has conveniently omitted some paragraphs that condemned the boycotts.... strange, censorship perhaps?

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...ijing-bombshell/2008/04/09/1207420464005.html

Athletics legend and Olympic torch relay-runner Ron Clarke has weighed into the debate, saying the International Olympic Committee should not give in to protesters by cancelling the relay.

"That just encourages (them), every time they have a torch relay or have an Olympic event the best thing to do is to attack it and get more publicity,'' Clarke told AAP.

"I think (the torch relay) adds to the prestige of the Games, I see no reason why it should be cancelled.''

Clarke, who lit the Olympic cauldron in Melbourne 52 years ago, will run in the Australian leg of the relay on April 24.

He said he had no concerns for his personal safety during the event.

"The AOC (Australian Olympic Committee), I've got complete confidence that they can make certain that there won't be any personal attacks on any of the torch-bearers,'' he said.

Fellow former Olympic swimmer Susie O'Neill has also spoken out over the torch controversy, saying the relay had been hijacked by protesters and should be scrapped.

"Everyday, everybody is talking about the Olympics but you've got bad publicity. So I'd probably just scrap it if it was me," O'Neill told ABC radio today.

"In retrospect I suppose it was pretty obvious that it was going to happen, [but] I just get a little bit angry when people use the Olympics as their protesting forum. It's so removed from politics."

The torch relay will continue in San Francisco tomorrow.

juw177 · 10 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Bill M said:
Tibetan monks and children killed by Chinese troops
SOURCE

It said an 18-year-old monk was killed and a 30-year-old monk was critically injured when security agents fired into the gathering.
SOURCE

Tibet's exiled government said Saturday that about 30 people had been killed during unrest in Lhasa, as Chinese troops locked down the city amid fierce international scrutiny ahead of the Olympics.
SOURCE

These are just a few of many similar reports.

But you still havent answered the question of what the Tibetans want and how Chinese are denying human rights.

We all know they get violent and clash with police and one side says this many people died and the Chinese officials says this many people died. They both have reason to exaggerate so who is right? At least the Chinese officials have released names of the innocent people killed by the current protest, not just a meaningless estimate.

You can always rely on western media to sympathise with Chinese dissidents.

INORE · 10 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Well...my two cents...my cousin travis nederpelt has been training his whole god damn life for the olympics.....his parents have sacrificed everything to get him to this level and now people want him and hundreds of other competitors to just forget those life sacrifices....you idiots....take your protests into a forum with your own money and sacrifices and stop f*cking up the lives of all these athletes...

2020hindsight · 10 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Inore, I also sympathise with those athletes.
Here's Lisa Forrest's book btw.
http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=165117

BOYCOTT
In 1980, at the height of the Cold War, the Fraser government told the Australian Olympic Federation to boycott the Moscow Olympics, in response to the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan. The AOF refused. By the time the Australian team marched into the Opening Ceremony, the controversy had split Australian public opinion.

The Olympic team had defied pressure from the highest levels – and unprecedented public criticism – and Australian sport would take years to recover. Lisa Forrest was just sixteen when she was named captain of the women's Olympic swim team. Boycott recounts her experiences of this bitter rift, at the height of the Cold War.

With interviews from the significant players, including Malcolm Fraser, executives of the Australian Olympic Federation, journalists and athletes , this compelling narrative describes how the 1980 Olympians fought the government, the public, the media and each other in order to fulfil their dreams, and uphold their belief that the Olympic Games is about peace, not politics.

Pages: 256
Released: 2008
ISBN / Catalogue Number: 9780733322952

2020hindsight · 10 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

PS You wonder if, as soon as Lisa heard that the 2008 Games would be in China , she knew there would be controversy, and set about writing that book, knowing it would hit the bookshelves in the midst of the furore.

Prospector · 10 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

I heard this morning that Dawn didn't go to Athens either!

Aussie2Aussie, I am not a fan of our previous Government's Foreign Policy in Iraq, (as are many on this forum); so where exactly does that place our love for Australia, hmm?

Bill M · 10 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

juw177 said:
But you still havent answered the question of what the Tibetans want and how Chinese are denying human rights.

The Tibetans want an end to the Chinese occupation of Tibet. Here is a terrible list of how Chinese are denying human rights.

1. The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned.

2. In Tibet today, there is no freedom of speech, religion, or press and arbitrary dissidents continue.

3. The Dalai Lama, Tibet's political and spiritual leader, fled to India in 1959. He now lives among over 100,000 other Tibetan refugees and their government in exile.

4. Forced abortion, sterilization of Tibetan women and the transfer of low income Chinese citizens threaten the survival of Tibet's unique culture. In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1.

More here at the source

chops_a_must · 10 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

INORE said:
Well...my two cents...my cousin travis nederpelt has been training his whole god damn life for the olympics.....his parents have sacrificed everything to get him to this level and now people want him and hundreds of other competitors to just forget those life sacrifices....you idiots....take your protests into a forum with your own money and sacrifices and stop f*cking up the lives of all these athletes...

I don't think anyone is seriously asking athletes to boycott. But it is going to be tough for a lot of athletes to emotionally deal with their joy etc. and the fun that they usually have with each other in the village, and the "spirit" of the games, when they know the citizens of the country they are in, are being murdered, and treated even more harshly, simply because of the fact that they themselves are there.

The fact that the IOC are disallowing the athletes their own voice, not allowing free contact with media, not allowing athletes to blog from the village freely for example, is ensuring that the games automatically become political. And you have to ask, why the hell aren't the athletes allowed to do whatever the hell they want outside of competition? After all, it is about them... isn't it?... Obviously not...

juw177 · 10 April 2008

Re: Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Bejing

Bill M said:
The Tibetans want an end to the Chinese occupation of Tibet. Here is a terrible list of how Chinese are denying human rights.

1. The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned.

2. In Tibet today, there is no freedom of speech, religion, or press and arbitrary dissidents continue.

3. The Dalai Lama, Tibet's political and spiritual leader, fled to India in 1959. He now lives among over 100,000 other Tibetan refugees and their government in exile.

4. Forced abortion, sterilization of Tibetan women and the transfer of low income Chinese citizens threaten the survival of Tibet's unique culture. In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1.

More here at the source

Hmm, not again.
Almost all of that except maybe (3) is down right false. The Tibetan population actually tripled under Chinese rule. Today there is freedom of religion, and Tibetans are exempt from one child policy. I will not go into detail, but a search on google and you will find out what is really behind the dubious free tibet movement.

First some common history, the Mao cultural revolution period was tough on all minorities not just Tibetans.
Before Chinese rule, Dalai Lama enslaved the Tibetan population.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/busin...ly-cloak/2007/05/22/1179601410290.html?page=1

Australian Olympic legend Dawn Fraser to boycott Beijing

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