The Olympic Torch Relay

[Sprinter79]

You know that is not the government's fault right? Do you see a population of unskilled labor in Australia? No? Then who is going to supply our demanding lifestyle? It is the way of global economics. If the government put in a minimum wage and raised standards, the western corporations will just find another country to exploit their workers.

And they are already doing that with China's fast growing middle class. You should be happy. Education and trade has improved and the country is going through rapid modernisation. Side effect as was seen with all the other countries is that there will be people left behind which has more to do with the current protests.

Of course it's the government's fault!!!! Governments set minimum wages and conditions don't they? And they are supposed to regulate IR and OHS.

 

[Prospector]

I don't think you give the athletes enough credit here. Where it is held is of great importance to the athletes. They are of course a stakeholder in the games, and its not just the political environment that have been overlooked here. Concerns over the air quality have persisted right from the initial annoucement.

If you want evidence that the athletes are secondary to the dollar, what about the US networks changing the timing of events to suit their prime time!

The air quality is of course, a significant issue to all the athletes. And spectators. The thing is, they can't change it, they can only train for it. Just like the altitude in Mexico City, and the heat in Atlanta. Just as they can't do anything about which city is selected to host. No point banging on about 'why do we have to compete in ABC' - just get on and train for it. That issue is something they should have grappled with before they set their sights on competing at the Olympics.

Remember last Olympics in Greece - it was such a non event in Australia when everything happened overnight! The swimming finals are going to be in the morning now, at least that means it will be daylight for us too. But yeah, TV does control the scene now, sadly.

 

[Sprinter79]

The air quality is of course, a significant issue to all the athletes. And spectators. The thing is, they can't change it, they can only train for it. Just like the altitude in Mexico City, and the heat in Atlanta. Just as they can't do anything about which city is selected to host. No point banging on about 'why do we have to compete in ABC' - just get on and train for it. That issue is something they should have grappled with before they set their sights on competing at the Olympics.

You're kidding right? Altitude and heat are TOTALLY different from pollution!!! How can you safely train for polluted conditions?

This again is something that should have been dealt with prior to the awarding of the games, which is the crux of my argument.

 

[Prospector]

You're kidding right? Altitude and heat are TOTALLY different from pollution!!! How can you safely train for polluted conditions?

Obviously the Chinese (and other athletes who come from polluted countries) have worked out how to deal with it! Coz the Chinese sure do win a lot of medals. Even those testing negative.

 

[Sprinter79]

Obviously the Chinese (and other athletes who come from polluted countries) have worked out how to deal with it! Coz the Chinese sure do win a lot of medals. Even those testing negative.

I'm pretty sure that China's ability to win medals has less to do with training techniques for dealing with pollution than the huge population to draw from, and the vast amounts of money being spent on sports performance.

 

[Happy]

Leave torch alone!

If everybody feels so strong, don’t buy any of their products

 

[Sprinter79]

Leave torch alone!

If everybody feels so strong, don’t buy any of their products

Wherever possible i don't. I'm fortunately in a position where I can make a choice and pay a bit more for certain products.

 

[Happy]

Wherever possible i don't.

That’s great, another 2 or 3 billion people have to do the same and they will take notice.

 

[谭智元]

Say no to the 2008 Beijing Olympics!

21 Mar 2008,The Chinese news agency Xinhua says 10 people were killed in Lhasa on Friday,including five young women(of Han ethnic group)who were burned to death in a clothing outlet.
Hu Jintao have them killed by rascals,or by spies of the CCP!

 

[disarray]

It is horrible what they are doing. Every year there are some idiots that try to snatch the torch or something, but this year, the media tells everyone it is cool to stir up trouble because it is big bad China.

Who cares that the Tibet rioters are a vandalising, murdering mob? The media says it is cool. And that freedom is such a hip word (even though it is almost meaningless when applied to Tibet). One would think our media is trying to start a war with China or something.

juw, you really need to drop this victim mentality. communist china is a big, bad country because the government is oppressive, corrupt, opaque and routinely violates human rights. this isn't the media talking, this is the actions of the chinese government. oh btw i found some more oppressed chinese people for you (besides the tibetans, falun gong practitioners, uighar muslims and my taxi driver) - the homeless in beijing are having their shantys bulldozed to clean the place up for the olympics, and aren't being supplied with alternative accommodation.

so china wants to step up on the world stage and showcase itself as a modern, prosperous, reliable state and trading partner, and this is great. china has a long history and a strong culture, and faces enormous challenges as it modernises and becomes an economic and military superpower. however i am afraid china doesn't get to choose what parts of the country we all look at (despite their best efforts) and so the government will routinely come in for criticism.

so when chinese security forces torture dissidents, or the government censors media criticism of itself, or the military kills people to quell dissent, people will stand up and say "this is not acceptable". and if you live in this country, and enjoy the freedoms and opportunities it offers, then you must also admit that behaviour like that is not acceptable in a modern, technologically advanced state that wishes to be respected by the rest of the world.

now criticism isn't necesarily a bad thing. i understand your points (and i share them somewhat), but someone will always be pissed off about something so you just have to accept it and move on. that is the mark of a mature state and a strong nation like china should be above petty politics and at least acknowledge the problems. if they do this then the torch relay would probably be a whole lot quieter and they will gain much respect.

 

[CanOz]

Human Rights abuses by the occupying Chinese forces in Tibet.

This whole statement is totally hipocritcal. Western countries have been abusing human rights for centuries....North American Indians, Aboriginies, Civil unrest by separtist groups in Canada, immigrant rights abuses by the US...not to mention the occupying forces in Afganastan, and Iraq....come on, give me a break....I've seen both sides of the news and for all I still know, they were doing the same that any western country would have done in the event of a massive riot....but you go ahead, and believe the lying media.....I wouldn't honestly expect anything different.

CanOz

 

[doctorj]

This whole statement is totally hipocritcal.

I don't think so. Why is it hypocritical for people to have a problem with the actions of other governments? People are not governments - least of all in China.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Say no to the 2008 Beijing Olympics!

21 Mar 2008,The Chinese news agency Xinhua says 10 people were killed in Lhasa on Friday,including five young women(of Han ethnic group)who were burned to death in a clothing outlet.
Hu Jintao have them killed by rascals,or by spies of the CCP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXWUkwrVIBE
gday pangyoh
could you translate that sign please
whilst you're at it - what's your nicname mean please.

btw, Here are some witness accounts. - not sure that the Chinese police were involved. (but you could be right I guess)

In the heat of battle, lots of innocent people get hurt

Five girls were burnt to death in Lhasa Tibet riot

 

[Sprinter79]

I don't see it as hypocritical, I see it as a statement of fact.

My accupuncturist, who also happens to be my cousin's husband, spent many years over in China training in his profession, and was told in no uncertain terms that any mention of Tibet to the wrong person would see their training terminated and them on the first plane out of the country with a 'request' never to return.

 

[2020hindsight]

Kevin Gosper speculating that all future torches will only be in the host country

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/08/2211366.htm

The IOC executive board will also review the future of international legs of the torch relays at its three-day meeting, Australian senior Olympic official Kevan Gosper told Beijing reporters.

Asked whether planning for future torch relays would come up, Mr Gosper said "I would expect that the executive committee will review that".

He said talks would focus on whether the relays should be limited to the country where the Olympics are to be held, rather than a journey around the world.

However he says he believes the current torch relay for the August Beijing Games will not be scrapped.

"My belief is the torch relay will stay on course," Mr Gosper said.

"There might be adjustments, but I think it would be wrong, actually, to try and do anything more than try to get the torch through to its ultimate destination."

 

[Julia]

Back to the protestors, there is a substantial element amongst these people who don't really care what they are protesting about. Anything will do.
They are the people who are perpetually angry, and spend their unproductive hours (most of their idle lives) looking for a cause.

The Olympic Torch is a magnificent opportunity for them to find an outlet for their fundamentally violent angst.

 

[CanOz]

Back to the protestors, there is a substantial element amongst these people who don't really care what they are protesting about. Anything will do.
They are the people who are perpetually angry, and spend their unproductive hours (most of their idle lives) looking for a cause.

The Olympic Torch is a magnificent opportunity for them to find an outlet for their fundamentally violent angst.

True, and there is another view that each of these protests have been organised centrally, by a unified pro Tibet organisation. Good on them for pushing thier cause, but why can we hear them over the same protests from US occupied countries? .....Media.

Only my opinion of course.

I really enjoy expressing it too, while i'm in Australia!

CanOz

 

[roland]

If you look at some of the footage, the movement of Falun Gong can be seen. This group is highly motivated to be involved with any protest against China.

No matter the event, if it involves any media attention and China is involved, they will be there to help with disruptions.

The movement's info from Wiki is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

Being one of the most populace countries on the planet, China is going to have the largest number if dissenters as well. The Olympics presents an outstanding platform for these dissenters to gain media coverage.

Like most other media dominated presenters of events, any widely dissemanted information streams will be agressively targeted by groups with agendas they want to be aired to the widest audience possible.

The media's platform is killing popular sentiment in favour of minorist agendas, win the mob - then you win Rome

Kill, the Olympic Torch Relay - and you kill the minorist voice - in this instance.

 

[Sprinter79]

Back to the protestors, there is a substantial element amongst these people who don't really care what they are protesting about. Anything will do.
They are the people who are perpetually angry, and spend their unproductive hours (most of their idle lives) looking for a cause.

Do you have any evidence of this?

Like with everything else on this forum, do your own research. Don't simply be sweep along by what you see/hear via the media, which of course has it's own agenda in all this.

 

[chops_a_must]

This whole statement is totally hipocritcal. Western countries have been abusing human rights for centuries....North American Indians, Aboriginies, Civil unrest by separtist groups in Canada, immigrant rights abuses by the US...not to mention the occupying forces in Afganastan, and Iraq....come on, give me a break....I've seen both sides of the news and for all I still know, they were doing the same that any western country would have done in the event of a massive riot....but you go ahead, and believe the lying media.....I wouldn't honestly expect anything different.

CanOz

What a load....

Some of us have problems with a lot of things in the world, not just China! I for one have been very vocal about aboriginal issues and US aggression, as seen on this site.

I got whipped by horse pigs when protesting the Iraq invasion, so please, spare me!

And just remind us again Can, why you cannot post properly to this site in China?

Anyone find it a bit offensive the torch coming to Australia on the eve of the day where we remember those who died to save us from oppression, violence, extreme politics, and who fought to protect our freedom?

Cheers.