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Asylum immigrants - Green Light

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chiff said:
Maybe some would be willing to tell us how the arrival of boat people has impacted their lives?Has there been a negative impact?
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......... estimate Customs, Defence, AFP and the other associated departments costing at least $1 billion more, putting this year’s outlay to service the burgeoning asylum seeker industry at more than $3 billion.
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Costs that can go to education, health and other services, so we are all impacted.

Cheers
Country Lad
 
chiff said:
Is part of the Australian culture to constantly denigrate others?
Maybe some would be willing to tell us how the arrival of boat people has impacted their lives?Has there been a negative impact?
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Chiff, it is adding to the tax burden of Australian working people. Where do you think the money comes from? And our own people needing help are having to wait, often years, to get help with housing.

If our own disadvantaged had a spare few thousand dollars (the equivalent of smuggler fees), they would not be in the dire situation they are in. I have no problem with genuine refugees fleeing persecution but our limited welfare should not be for those who just want to live here at our taxpayer expense.

And, has it been the massive increase in expense providing housing, $10,000 furniture packages, weekly income, medical, legal bills, education, etc, etc to so many arrivals that is now potentially forcing the single parents of children as young as eight back into the work force or live in deeper poverty?

Surely charity begins at home and shouldn't extend to those who simply don't want to work and live a free live at our expense. Aussies have strict rules before being permitted to receive any sort of welfare - why should boat arrivals who have never contributed a cent to the nation get better treatment?

I see that the Aussie people are the ones being ripped off. If you consider us asking for a fair go here as "denigration", then perhaps you have no idea.
 
I anticipated that response,and as demonstrated it has not impacted your lives in any way at all.Are you saying that any public expenditure that you do not approve of impacts adversely on your lives?It is a matter of priorities.Why spend money on aboriginal welfare then?
My objection is to the nefarious haters that talk about culture and 'fiber' ...good god!Something tells me that that that individual is auditioning to be a political staffer.
Of course we need a regulated immigration policy but why attack desperate people with specious bulls...
Australia has a small refugee problem compared to a lot of other countries.And Australia has not got clean hands when it comes to what causes refugees-causes desperate people to risk their lives.
 

Where did I attack desperate people? I said, " I have no problem with genuine refugees fleeing persecution but our limited welfare should not be for those who just want to live here at our taxpayer expense."

It seems you do not want to listen to reason and are here purely for propaganda purposes.

Eventually this will affect every Australian either by raised taxes and/or decreased services in this country.

Never mind, Chiff, the very taxpayers, to whom you seem to have so little respect or concern, will vote and this is one of the big issues which this current government seem to have failed to separate genuine refugees from those who just want a life at other people's expense.

What about the genuine refugees waiting in camps around the world without the money to pay smugglers - some for years? Are they less important to you?????
 
chiff said:
I anticipated that response,and as demonstrated it has not impacted your lives in any way at all.
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You are apparently suggesting that anyone who is not directly physically affected by the arrival of asylum seekers whose passage has been facilitated by people smugglers has no reason to feel concern about this.

On that principle, we would care about nothing that didn't impact on the narrow spectre of our own lives.
Any country whose citizens care nothing about the greater community and the long term ethos and culture of their country will render that country the poorer imo.

Are you saying that any public expenditure that you do not approve of impacts adversely on your lives?
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That's absolutely not my take on what sails is saying.

My objection is to the nefarious haters that talk about culture and 'fiber' ...good god!Something tells me that that that individual is auditioning to be a political staffer.
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That's a pretty emotive and inflammatory comment and hardly necessary imo.
Surely you can discuss the issue without such hyperbolic rhetoric.
 


What is iritating that we elect Government and they behave as dictators.

It is beyond belief that our money are spent as if we just had too much money and were simply running out of ideas what to do with them.

We should fix our problems first and only then fix all the World problems.

If conditions in detention centre are unhuman, anybody is welcome to go back to wherever anybody is going to give them 5 or 6 star hotel treatment.

Far too long we are taken for a ride.
Not sure if this party will get Pauline Hanson treatment, time will tell:

http://riseupaustraliaparty.com/?p=990
 
Interesting that there were no complaints about excess spending when the money was going into middle class welfare-pork barrelling those that can afford to pay for themselves (like me).That spending surely could have been better directed,but as someone earlier said leaders can behave as dictators,in that case to help a re-election.
Someone said in an previous post that some of these refugees had money.A few years ago a politician (conservative) told me the same thing.Of course I asked him to give me examples ...not one was provided.The politician ended up sending me copies from earlier newspapers stating that he was a man of integrity.Strange behaviour! In his defence I think that he believed what he was told about refugees without questioning it.
And as you have demonstrated the expenditure on the refugees has not impacted personally on any of us,and to claim that it has is stretching it to back your own case.
As I have said we need a regulated immigration policy and by all means deter boat people from making the risky journey to Australia-but why attack these people personally?
Does anyone know any of these refugees that have been allowed into Australia?Have you seen what they do when they get into Australia?
I will save this for another time.
 
Take the blinkers off chiff. This is about a policy that has failed, and failed miserably...

If this were the Libs in power with 17,000+ illegal boat arrivals last year, you'd be up in arms.

  • The ALP boarder protection policy does NOT work - record number of illegals in 2012!
  • There isn't proper vetting of said illegal refugees - documents are thrown overboard long before they get here
  • 17,000+ illegal boat arrivals in the 2012 calendar year
  • Reported to cost between 5k - 10k a ticket (journey), one way - so they have some money
  • So far, from reports, it is said to have cost the current Government more than $6 BILLION. Not to mention, the ongoing costs (housing, centerlink, medical bills, etc etc etc)
 
Chiff - why do you think it is Australian taxpayer's responsibility to support people who are not genuine refugees fleeing persecution?
 
chiff said:
And as you have demonstrated the expenditure on the refugees has not impacted personally on any of us,and to claim that it has is stretching it to back your own case.
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It's impacted me personally by the tax I have paid to finance this failure of policy.

Every other taxpayer is in the same (excuse the pun) boat.
 
What about the cost, when they qualify for centerlink? and then when they qualify for an aged pension?

You bunch of wally's are already demonising Australian pensioners that have worked here all their lives.

Now you are saying cut some slack, for people that come illegally, give it a break, you've lost the plot.
 
And as you have demonstrated the expenditure on the refugees has not impacted personally on any of us,and to claim that it has is stretching it to back your own case.
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I, and others, have already responded to this. Most people will, thank goodness, take an interest in their country beyond any immediate impact on their own lives.

What gets me about this sort of repetitive stuff is the absolute refusal to consider the reality that for every boat arrival person who has been able to afford to pay a people smuggler, that is one fewer person who has been waiting patiently in some squalid refugee camp, often for years, after having been determined by the UNHCR to be a genuine refugee.
 

Sorry I should have posted this on " How can we make superannuation fairer"
 
A demonstration of the abject stupidity of this government's treatment of migrants.

A retired couple who are very good friends came to Australia 7 years ago on a Retirement Visa. This class of visa is really for only very wealthy people as it requires that you have sufficient funds to pay for all living expenses including medical, retirement, housing and effectively all living expenses till you die and you are not eligible for any type of government benefit - ever. That is no problem because these people by definition of the visa are multi-millionaires.

Our friends have now returned to England because the government made it so intolerably difficult for these visa holders.

The government goes out of its way to ensure that they are classed as "Temporary Residents". They can not become Aus citizens or even permanent residents. However, because the ATO needs to collect as much money as possible, for tax purposes, they are classed as permanent residents by the ATO even though their visa conditions categorically state temporary.

On top of that, the govt will not guarantee that they can stay, and they need to re-apply for the visa every 5 years. The government makes it clear that a new visa will not be automatically granted and in fact, there is a liklihood that it will not be granted.

On top of that, as a Temporary Resident, there are consistent on-going issues with basic stuff such as they have difficulty in getting services or have to pay a premium such as travel insurance, drivers licences, house insurance etc etc.

Of the 5,000 odd retirement visa holders who spend significant amount of money while living in Aus, about 3,500 have returned to their homeland or to some other country where the government makes them feel welcome.

They thought of returning as refugees, but seeing they are from England and not from a Middle East country or Sri Lanka, that wouldn't work.

Typical idiotic thinking by this government.

Cheers
Country Lad
 

If they were classed as permanent residents or eligible for citizenship, then they would become eligible for social security and medicare. It works both ways, for instance the little box on the AU departure card about claiming unclaimed money (read: super) only applies to non-citizens. The only way an AU citizen can access that money is by renouncing their AU citizenship.

The definition of resident for tax purposes doesn't necessarily have to be the same as the Department of Immigration's. The ATO's definition is far more subjective. Just be glad you're not American, the IRS taxes you on your worldwide income if you are a US citizen, even if you haven't lived in the US since you were a child.

Certainly understand your friend's annoyance but the system seems pretty fair to me. Didn't realise it was that hard as a temporary resident to get a DL etc. PITA.
 
It is more the insecurity that has driven these retirement visa people to relocate to other countries or returning to their original homeland. Many of the problems these people encounter could be solved by the conditions of the visa being such that it will be automatically renewed if the original conditions are still being met.

I have been communicating with many of these people through their investment forum and it is the government indicating the likelihood of the visa not being renewed that is the main issue. They don't have any problem with the conditions of the visa - it is the government attitude that they are not welcome and most likely the visa will not be renewed regardless of all the conditions being met. Not a good feeling as they grow older, expecting to be kicked out of the country. This govt attitude has crept in only in the last few years, before that there was no indication that renewal would not occur.

From the info they gave on the forum, it appears that the average tax paid is about $44,000 per year and the average spend is about $87,000 per year. For the 3,500 who have so far left, that is about a $450 million per year loss to this country - all because the governement elects to make them feel insecure. That is what I meant by the govt's stupidity.

That would pay for housing quite a few of those arriving by boat without a visa.

Cheers
Country Lad
 
Country Lad said:
...
Typical idiotic thinking by this government.

...
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Couldn't say that better myself.

Reminds me of pensionner from GB that was permanent resident, lived in Australia something like 40 or 50 years.
Had house and few other things.

Went abroad to visit family and was not allowed to re-enter Australia, because did not apply for re-entry visa before she left.
Had to go back to England to apply for visa at the Australian Consulate/Embassy

How for idiotic this is?

She was treated thousand times worse than illegal refugee.
 
My wife and I have a friend who wants to sponsor a 36 year old single white girl from Accra Ghana. He is prepared to pay her Aged Care/ Nursing fees for a two year study visa, pay her air fares and cost of visa to Austrlaia but this stupid Labor Government stipulates she must be able to prove she is capable of keeping herself to the tune of $18,610 per year.

She has all her documentation certified to be true and correct.

Total cost all up of $66,010 which she must prove to the Australian Immigration Department that she has that amount of money in her own bank account in Ghana before giving her approval for a study visa.

I have you ever heard of such stupidty in my whole life and there you have these Muslim twits arriving daily on our shores.
 
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