Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[bellenuit]

A flawed Malaysia deal would surely be better than losing more lives.

Abbott could say he would change it as soon as he was elected to a scheme of his choosing.

As with the Greens, they like Abbott can say they have not shifted and their "principles" are intact.

When the next boat sinks and children die, the politicians whether they be Green, Red or Blue can cry as much as they like but nothing will wipe the blood from their hands.

I have nothing but disgust for them and all those who defend them.

Only Oakshott and Xenaphon will have clean consciousnesses.

I think that is the position Abbott should have taken from the start. He should have said that he will pass the legislation, but vehemently oppose the Malaysian option (which as I understand is only enabled by the legislation but not specified as the only option). At the time the Labor party was split down the middle on the Malaysian issue and putting the legislation to parliament could have exposed huge rifts within the party as well as putting the Greens offside. The Malaysian option would soon be dropped as hundreds of refugees are seeing being forcefully put on to planes to fly to Malaysia, plus you would have worldwide condemnation.

The problem now is that rightly or wrongly some of the blame for the intervening drownings have rubbed off on Abbott. If he were now to relent and the Malaysian solution were to work, the blame would flow entirely to Abbott. Gillard is also in the same position. She cannot accept Nauru because if it did work a second time, she would have to take full responsibility for the deaths that happened.

The stakes are now too high for either to concede.

 

[Calliope]

I agree with the above. Any suggestions on a better option?

I have a better option. I would go along with the Malaysia plan on the basis that we swap one illegal for four genuine Burmese refugee - not one for eight, and with no limit. The only snag of course would be to get the illegals on the plane without offending the sensibilities of the Mal Washers.

Unlike the sanctimonious Abbott and Hockey I couldn't give a fig about the treatment of the illegals by their fellow Muslims in Malaysia. It certainly would be better than the treatment being handed out to the Burmese, who are actually fleeing from persecution.

Unlike the bawling hypocrites in parliament who worry about the plight of the illegals, the plight of the Burmese refugees makes their concerns pale into insignificance.

 

[drsmith]

The problem now is that rightly or wrongly some of the blame for the intervening drownings have rubbed off on Abbott. If he were now to relent and the Malaysian solution were to work, the blame would flow entirely to Abbott.

At a political level, the problem with that is that the malaysian solution would not have worked. The best it would have done is to have slowed the boats for a period perhaps only delaying the current outcome a little. Tony Abbott would have then been in a worse position than he is now as he would have supported the legislation that enabled Malaysia.

Whether or not Labor would have fallen apart when Julia Gillard was going to have the original vote is another matter. Perhaps Tony Abbott thought this wasn't likely to happen. It was certianly less likely when Labor weakened on children.

No one smells sweet out of all this, but Labor is still in a far worse stench than the Coalition.

 

[Knobby22]

I think that is the position Abbott should have taken from the start. He should have said that he will pass the legislation, but vehemently oppose the Malaysian option (which as I understand is only enabled by the legislation but not specified as the only option). At the time the Labor party was split down the middle on the Malaysian issue and putting the legislation to parliament could have exposed huge rifts within the party as well as putting the Greens offside. The Malaysian option would soon be dropped as hundreds of refugees are seeing being forcefully put on to planes to fly to Malaysia, plus you would have worldwide condemnation.

The problem now is that rightly or wrongly some of the blame for the intervening drownings have rubbed off on Abbott. If he were now to relent and the Malaysian solution were to work, the blame would flow entirely to Abbott. Gillard is also in the same position. She cannot accept Nauru because if it did work a second time, she would have to take full responsibility for the deaths that happened.

The stakes are now too high for either to concede.

I agree but he could still come out looking better.

I don't reckon they will get the Malaysian offer to fly anyway without a lot of problems. The Malaysian opposition is against it and if anything goes wrong during the swap, heaps of mud will land on Gillard.

 

[Knobby22]

I have a better option. I would go along with the Malaysia plan on the basis that we swap one illegal for four genuine Burmese refugee - not one for eight, and with no limit. The only snag of course would be to get the illegals on the plane without offending the sensibilities of the Mal Washers.

Unlike the sanctimonious Abbott and Hockey I couldn't give a fig about the treatment of the illegals by their fellow Muslims in Malaysia. It certainly would be better than the treatment being handed out to the Burmese, who are actually fleeing from persecution.

Unlike the bawling hypocrites in parliament who worry about the plight of the illegals, the plight of the Burmese refugees makes their concerns pale into insignificance.

Good suggestion. Good for the Libs also.

 

[Julia]

I hold Labor, Greens and the LIbs in comtempt. Some of you arguing that Julia deserves more contempt, doesn't stop the contempt being derserved for the Libs. I am sick of sychophants.

Agree. There seems to be a sense that if one is disgusted by the government then one must ipso facto be entirely supportive of everything put forward by the Opposition. For me, at least, it's just not so.

I have a better option. I would go along with the Malaysia plan on the basis that we swap one illegal for four genuine Burmese refugee - not one for eight, and with no limit. The only snag of course would be to get the illegals on the plane without offending the sensibilities of the Mal Washers.

Unlike the sanctimonious Abbott and Hockey I couldn't give a fig about the treatment of the illegals by their fellow Muslims in Malaysia. It certainly would be better than the treatment being handed out to the Burmese, who are actually fleeing from persecution.

Unlike the bawling hypocrites in parliament who worry about the plight of the illegals, the plight of the Burmese refugees makes their concerns pale into insignificance.

+1. Great suggestion.
But as you say, the forcing of people onto a plane to Malaysia is the problem. A gift to the Greens.

 

[noco]

I say to hell with Labor, the Greens and Gillards hand picked panel, take us to an election with the Malayasian deal on her platform and let the people of Australia decide and include the carbon dioxide tax at the same time.

If the Governor General had any fortitude left in her she should desolve parliament and let it happen but of course being Bill's mother-in-law it 'ain't gnna' happen.

 

[dutchie]

Abbott has stated he will not change his policy because his party has already got one, irrespective of what the three amigos come up with.

So are the taxpayers paying for a committee to develop a Labor Party policy? It would appear that the Labor Party is bereft of ideas for a policy.

The committee will therefore only be able to come up with a policy of onshore processing.

 

[IFocus]

Agree with them or not, one thing to admire about Tony Abbott in this is that he has stuck to his principals.

Abbott has principles?

Since when?

 

[IFocus]

If I was Abbott, I would think what would Menzies, Churchill do?

In my opinion, they would do something Prime Ministerial like offer a completely new option and then soften it with giving up some ground to Labor. They would show pity to the other party and do something for the greater good.

Abbot could then look Prime Ministerial, while making Labor look petty at the same time. He could really make the Greens look pathetic with the right attitude.

Tony Abbott needs to look at this from another angle. He needs to show some greatness because, otherwise lets face it, he will share in the mud and blood game when the next boat sinks.

He has the chance to rise above it all. That is my political view.
If he doesn't then he is another politician like Julia, not really up to the job.

I hold Labor, Greens and the LIbs in comtempt. Some of you arguing that Julia deserves more contempt, doesn't stop the contempt being derserved for the Libs. I am sick of sychophants.

Menzies would'nt get a start on Abbotts front bench he would be classed these days as to far to the left.

 

[MrBurns]

Abbott has stated he will not change his policy because his party has already got one, irrespective of what the three amigos come up with.

So are the taxpayers paying for a committee to develop a Labor Party policy? It would appear that the Labor Party is bereft of ideas for a policy.

The committee will therefore only be able to come up with a policy of onshore processing.

The Committee is just another waste of time and money while Gillard prepares to protect her position once again.

The Libs couldnt make it any plainer, they will only agree to sending people where the UN Convention on asylum seekers has been signed.......soooo she forms a committee

 

[Miss Hale]

Abbott has principles?

Since when?

Since forever.

 

[IFocus]

Since forever.

Scripted or unscripted?

 

[noco]

Abbott has principles?

Since when?

Come on now IFocus, tell me what principles has Gillard got?

NONE!!!!!!!!

ZILCH!!!!!!!!!

ZERO!!!!!!!!!

 

[bellenuit]

I have a better option. I would go along with the Malaysia plan on the basis that we swap one illegal for four genuine Burmese refugee - not one for eight, and with no limit. The only snag of course would be to get the illegals on the plane without offending the sensibilities of the Mal Washers.

Unlike the sanctimonious Abbott and Hockey I couldn't give a fig about the treatment of the illegals by their fellow Muslims in Malaysia. It certainly would be better than the treatment being handed out to the Burmese, who are actually fleeing from persecution.

Unlike the bawling hypocrites in parliament who worry about the plight of the illegals, the plight of the Burmese refugees makes their concerns pale into insignificance.

I agree that would be a good deal, but unfortunately the Libs have been too resolute that they could not now support any option that involves Malaysia.

One of the positives I saw in the Malaysia deal was that we would be getting predominantly Buddhists instead of Muslims, even if the numbers are greater. I think Buddhists are more likely to blend into Australian society than Muslims, who seem to integrate less and demand more the bigger their percentage.

However, I also believe the Malaysian agreement had Malaysia deciding who would be sent to Australia, so we could also end up with the most troublesome of the refugees. I think we should also ensure that we decide who comes.

 

[Calliope]

The opposition remained opposed to the Malaysian option, arguing that it lacked human rights safeguards

What crock of sh*t. As I said previously, the human rights of a bunch of pampered boat people, pales into insignificance compared to the non-existent human rights of the Burmese refugees. Whatever we can do to reduce their suffering may not amount to much, given the numbers involved, but we would be callous to let the opportunity pass. And these people, like the Chinese and Vietnamese would blend in well, unlike the Muslims. Most of them are Christians or Buddhists.

What surprises me, is that during all the gabfest yesterday this aspect was not brought up by Labor. To me it would seem to be the main selling point.

 

[sptrawler]

Abbott has principles?

Since when?

You're starting to snipe, Ifocus, unlike you. However I can sympathise with your frustration.
Julias not giving you much to work with.

 

[IFocus]

Nice to see thread participants happy for people to drown as long as its a Labor problem!

Its actually an Australian problem.............isn't it?

Its been spelt out in clear terms why Nauru and TPV wont work this is the Coalition current policy isn't it?

Why do people keep saying that the Coalition has a policy that works when clearly thats a crock of ........?


Again how did Howard get his original policy through the senate since he didn't have the numbers?

 

[JTLP]

Let's be honest - I don't think it hits people that hard at all that illegals are dying at sea. This crying is just crap (it's been said numerous times) and nobody really cares about the people - it's their political survival. This sounds harsh but when it all boils down - we don't know them/we don't know what's really happened/death surrounds us everyday - it's just another thing in the world. Why aren't we crying for children starving in Africa? Persecution of the Burmese? The list goes on. The fact that they scuttle their own boats doesn't garner a lot of sympathy at all.

They shoot themselves in the foot when they riot at detention centres as well - what spoilt, ungrateful leeches - destroying the very property and land they so desperately seek to live on. The added bonus of this is we get psychiatrist's who say "they are just portraying the violence shown to them in their native land". Cut me a break - they want to do things like that? Put them back on a boat and push it across the Indian ocean somewhere else.

These boats will continually flood through - bypassing all the other countries on the way to get to the big soft Australia. You have to know that Australia is that good when these Muslim countries are A LOT closer to the EU.

Not only will the public knock the Labor government out with the Carbon Tax - they'll put their feet on the throat of the inept PM for putting Australia in such a perilous position.

 

[noco]

I can well imagine if Abbott relented and agreed to Labor's Malaysian deal and it all went 'belly up', I can hear Gillard screaming form the roof tops, "well the coalition agreed to it, don't blame me".