Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[numbercruncher]

They didnt do it under Howards policies and they probably wouldn't have done it if that policy continued.

Gillard is a cold blooded professional user of people, to hear her pretend to be concerned in her news broadcast made me sick.

But we better not talk about the millions of refugees caused by bush and howard invading Iraq and Afghanistan not mention the Massive casualty list - but hell lets make a big deal about a few thousand that try to flee the persecution to downunder and blame which ever political party suis our personal agendas ....

:bad:

 

[MrBurns]

I don't have a personal agenda
And what has a war to try to rid the world of terrorism got to do with this
Gillard is all i said she is and more

 

[sptrawler]

But we better not talk about the millions of refugees caused by bush and howard invading Iraq and Afghanistan not mention the Massive casualty list - but hell lets make a big deal about a few thousand that try to flee the persecution to downunder and blame which ever political party suis our personal agendas ....

:bad:

You really are pulling a long bow now, lets talk all wars through history?
The issue is the few thousand arriving, with no papers of identification, no means of proving intent.
I just hope all you bleeding heart club type, have put your name down to take them in to home detention at your place.
No, that would be too honest.
Reminds me of someone I worked with.
He was saying how unfair it was, that indigenous Australians found it difficult to find rental properties(he had rental properties).
I said to him, I know an Aboriginal couple looking for a rental property, he told me I was a smart ar$e and should mind my own business.
Untill Australia becomes like the other countries in the world where bombs are being detonated indiscriminately, the do gooders will rattle on. Makes them feel good.

 

[MrBurns]

I don't have a personal agenda
And what has a war to try to rid the world of terrorism got to do with this
Gillard is all i said she is and more

I posted this from my iPhone using an app called Forumrunner, back on the lap top now.

 

[noco]

But we better not talk about the millions of refugees caused by bush and howard invading Iraq and Afghanistan not mention the Massive casualty list - but hell lets make a big deal about a few thousand that try to flee the persecution to downunder and blame which ever political party suis our personal agendas ....

:bad:

People should start to realize this a peaceful Muslim invasion and it is happening in all Western countries.

They are not fleeing from perscution at all. They are being paid to come here and when they get here we continue to pay them. It is a world wide plot dominate the world with Sharia law. It would not surprise me if the Greens are not in the act as well.

Go talk to people in France, Holland and Denmark.

 

[sails]

But we better not talk about the millions of refugees caused by bush and howard invading Iraq and Afghanistan not mention the Massive casualty list - but hell lets make a big deal about a few thousand that try to flee the persecution to downunder and blame which ever political party suis our personal agendas ....

:bad:

but hell lets make a big deal about a few thousand wealthy people that try to flee.

Was Captain Emad trying to flee? How many more like him are coming into this country? How many are terrorists? Do we even know?

And why should Aussie taxpayers be paying welfare for people who can afford to pay so much to get here? If they have money why aren't they supporting themselves? Do they hide their money like they lose their documents?

And the above is said in the context that I have no problem with genuine refugees fleeing for their lives. However, I'm not so sure that the invasion going on is genuine refugees. It seems these are the ones with money.

And neither do Malaysia think they are genuine and the article below shows that they could be a major security risk.

“(Home Minister) Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein’s blind acceptance of the 800 boatpeople who are effectively Australia’s “rejects” puts Malaysia’s national security at risk.

“These 800 boatpeople who are newly-arrived in Australia would not have been screened by UNHCR, thus they are likely not genuine refugees at all,” said Kok in a statement, adding that the backgrounds, language ability, work skills of the 800 were currently “unclear and dubious.”

Read more: Malaysia-Aussie refugee swap national security risk, says Kok

 

[moXJO]

LOL thanks for that, thanks for pointing out that the Government with the help of 1,2,3,4 independents, or the Liberals, and/or the greens can pass any legislation it wants...very helpful. just a shame that somehow you don't seem to want to face the reality that on its own the Government can do NOTHING.

(I will use big fonts to help you get the idea)

So just like in 2001 the Government of the day NEEDS the support of another party to get ANY legislation thru, in 2001 the Coalation Govt passed the PACIFIC SOLUTION LEGISLATION with the help of the OPPOSITION LABOR PARTY.

And now (AS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR CLOSE TO 2 DECADES) the Govt of the day needs the help of the OPPOSITION Liberal Party to get appropriate legislation thru.

Just let me know if you need any further assistance with understanding Aust politics 101.

And how do you think we got here in the first place? Your idiot labor government dismantling policy that worked for more political feel-good f**kup. But oh no lets go crying "bi-partisan" when the going gets tough because we f**ked up yet another policy. And what is Labors excuse "It's Abbotts fault" Yes the catchcry and biggest cop out of the losers, something that only the most rusted on manage to believe. And how anyone could rust on to this steaming pile beggar’s belief.

This is the worst government I have ever seen and they keep on making stuff up after stuff up while bringing in bad policy, red tape and restrictions. And when I think they might be moving in the right direction they manage to stuff that up and make it even worse. I can't wait for the chance to boot them back to the wilderness. For God’s sake when you have to hide the fact you are a labor member on your election poster then you know your party is trash.

It's on labors head and no one else

 

[Julia]

For God’s sake when you have to hide the fact you are a labor member on your election poster then you know your party is trash.

Says it all really.

 

[StumpyPhantom]

I'm going to try and chase down So_Cynical's blinkered argument and fabricated outrage at the Coalition one more time.

I actually thought I did it here (read that and the following dozen or so posts):

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16184&page=93&p=700379#post700379

SC went silent at that time, so I thought the links to the High Court judgment on the Malaysia Solution case did the job.

But here we are again. Let's not construct any excuse for this Rudd/Gillard stewardship of Labor with any minority Government excuse.

Re-opening Nauru would be an act of Executive Government, undertaken from the Prime Ministerial offices at the back of Parliament House, not in the legislative chamber.

It's that simple. This is especially so now that they've signed the Refugees Convention since it was dismantled by a proud Senator Chris Evans (do I need to re-link that speech?).

We would get a clean, Australian-run offshore processing site. But the collective loss of pride for the ALP and for the mule-stubborn Gillard would be unbearable. So she sticks with the inhumane Malaysia solution and blames the impasse while people die.

Now, SC's indoctrination is likely to come up with the line "But it didn't work, they all ended back here anyway". But the 30% who were refused actually went home. You won't find 30 people who came on a boat who have been sent home in the last 4 years.

There's no convincing some people. So be it.

 

[sptrawler]

The Malaysian solution was flawed and thrown out, also it covered 800 in return for 4000.
Lets move on, since then the problem is 5000 does that mean we take 25,000.
It was stupid then, it is stupid now.
It still goes back to the wheel wasn't broken when labor came in. They chose to reinvent it, why is it everyone else's fault.

 

[So_Cynical]

LOL thanks for that, thanks for pointing out that the Government with the help of 1,2,3,4 independents, or the Liberals, and/or the greens can pass any legislation it wants...very helpful. just a shame that somehow you don't seem to want to face the reality that on its own the Government can do NOTHING.

(I will use big fonts to help you get the idea)

So just like in 2001 the Government of the day NEEDS the support of another party to get ANY legislation thru, in 2001 the Coalation Govt passed the PACIFIC SOLUTION LEGISLATION with the help of the OPPOSITION LABOR PARTY.

And now (AS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR CLOSE TO 2 DECADES) the Govt of the day needs the help of the OPPOSITION Liberal Party to get appropriate legislation thru.

Just let me know if you need any further assistance with understanding Aust politics 101.

Obviously.............................................I.............................................did.....................................................not..........................................speak..............................................slowly..................................................enough.....................................................sigh

More than happy to help dutchie....what of the above didn't you understand?

Nobody wants to send women and children to Malaysia, nobody except Gillard.

LOL no the opposition wants to send them back to Indonesia...cos that's so much better than Malaysia ...right.

I'm going to try and chase down So_Cynical's blinkered argument and fabricated outrage at the Coalition one more time.

I actually thought I did it here (read that and the following dozen or so posts):

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16184&page=93&p=700379#post700379

SC went silent at that time, so I thought the links to the High Court judgment on the Malaysia Solution case did the job.

But here we are again. Let's not construct any excuse for this Rudd/Gillard stewardship of Labor with any minority Government excuse.

Re-opening Nauru would be an act of Executive Government, undertaken from the Prime Ministerial offices at the back of Parliament House, not in the legislative chamber.

It's that simple. This is especially so now that they've signed the Refugees Convention since it was dismantled by a proud Senator Chris Evans (do I need to re-link that speech?).

We would get a clean, Australian-run offshore processing site. But the collective loss of pride for the ALP and for the mule-stubborn Gillard would be unbearable. So she sticks with the inhumane Malaysia solution and blames the impasse while people die.

Now, SC's indoctrination is likely to come up with the line "But it didn't work, they all ended back here anyway". But the 30% who were refused actually went home. You won't find 30 people who came on a boat who have been sent home in the last 4 years.

There's no convincing some people. So be it.

I went quiet cos i read it and its mostly gibberish to me...i got kicked out of high school in 1979 so struggle to even read a document like that ruling, so have to depend somewhat on the media etc, thus have to accept that the Labor legislation allows the Govt of the day to set its own policy. (as reported) now you do seem to have some knowledge of the legal side of the argument (StumpyPhantom) that i dont have, hpwever i know what a redneck Liberal is so have absolutely no problem labelling us as such and there fore treating your posts with comtemp as they deserve.

 

[numbercruncher]

These rich refugees thay you fear so much wouldnt be here if Abbot hadnt blocked the Malaysia solution.

Maybe you people need to start petitioning for Australias withdrawl from the refugee convention ?

I dont really like Labor muh at the moment myself , but this issue is just politics , refugees are the pawns.

 

[numbercruncher]

Seems to be some denial as to how many of our refugees were caused by War misadventures?

Afghanistan, where the U.S. has been at war for more than a decade, continues to be the top producer of refugees with 2.7 million. The UNHCR estimates that one out of four refugees originate from Afghanistan. About 95% of them reside in neighboring Pakistan and Iran.

Iraq, where the United States pulled out the last of its troops at the end of last year after an eight-year war, produced the second largest refugee population with 1.4 million.

http://leanforward.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/18/12279878-refugee-crisis-escalates-afghanistan-remains-top-source?lite

 

[sails]

These rich refugees thay you fear so much wouldnt be here if Abbot hadnt blocked the Malaysia solution.

Maybe you people need to start petitioning for Australias withdrawl from the refugee convention ?

I dont really like Labor muh at the moment myself , but this issue is just politics , refugees are the pawns.

And neither would these wealthy people be coming here in droves if Rudd and Gillard didn't abolish the best solution that was deterring them. At least Nauru was run by Australians and gave a humane place of refuge for those who are genuinely fleeing persecution.

And you reckon it is political? Who made it political? Why didn't Rudd and Gillard leave something alone that was clearly working so well. But no, they had to meddle with it big noting themselves that they could do better. Massive FAIL.

And why is all the pressure on Abbott to cave in on Malaysia? What about the Greens who are in bed with labor?

Here is Gillard making Boat Arrivals political when she could have left it alone saving billions of dollars and many people would not have died:



Gillard needs to put the system back to how it was and stop blaming Abbott when she and Rudd politicised this issue all on their own.

 

[sails]

And don't forget that these wealthy arrivals are taking the place of genuine refugees who cannot afford to pay smuggler fees. People in squalid camps around the world.

You must also cringe that those who buy their way here from Pakistan, Iran and Sri Lanka take the places of real refugees.

If you are of sterner stuff, you must rage at this waste of billions of dollars. You must fume at being exploited by fake refugees such as people smuggler Captain Emad.

Read more: Fix these lethal laws. Now

 

[StumpyPhantom]

Seems to be some denial as to how many of our refugees were caused by War misadventures?


http://leanforward.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/18/12279878-refugee-crisis-escalates-afghanistan-remains-top-source?lite

No problem with what you say, numbercruncher. The ethnic Hazaras are amongst the most persecuted peoples on Earth, and have been for centuries.

But let's not confuse that with our people smuggler problem.

The statistics will ultimately show this. When the floodgates opened and the smugglers had a product to sell, a very large proportion on the boats were middle-class Iranians from the suburbs of Teheran, who had the up-front cash for the smugglers (ie no need to set up syndicates here to collect from families upon arrival).

That's my basic problem. We have a defacto Immigration Department working the mobile phones out of the smoke-filled cafes of Jakarta (and Sydney), using John Howard's famous line, about choosing who gets to come to Australia.

I would be just as happy to just go and get our whole annual intake from Afghanistan. But the loss of sovereignty implicit in the people smuggler trade, including the loss of lives, is just very hard to take.

 

[Julia]

These rich refugees thay you fear so much wouldnt be here if Abbot hadnt blocked the Malaysia solution.

And how would the Malaysia solution be playing out, given it was only for 800 and we now have thousands?
That was one of the silliest things about it.

 

[sails]

And how would the Malaysia solution be playing out, given it was only for 800 and we now have thousands?
That was one of the silliest things about it.

Yes, this was mentioned on the Bolt Report this morning. As Amanda Vanstone pointed out, the Malaysion "solution" ends with the first 800 of our arrivals. She suggested that any smart smuggler would get the first 800 out of the way (even pay for them) and then it's back to smuggling the wealthy ones again.

 

[drsmith]

Yes, this was mentioned on the Bolt Report this morning. As Amanda Vanstone pointed out, the Malaysion "solution" ends with the first 800 of our arrivals. She suggested that any smart smuggler would get the first 800 out of the way (even pay for them) and then it's back to smuggling the wealthy ones again.

Yrs, at the very least, it needed to be open ended and on equal terms.

 

[drsmith]

Tony Abbott is sticking to his guns.

He didn't repeat what Amanda Vanstone correctly pointed out on today's Bolt Report, but he did say the following,

''The first point I make is that what's needed here is not more bipartisanship, but effective policies,'' he said in Melbourne.

''What's needed here is not compromise for compromise sake, but policies that work.

''It is not the opposition's policies that have failed here, it's the government's policies that have failed here.

''This is a government which inherited a border protection solution and unfortunately it changed policies and we all see the result.''

''It's the government's policies that aren't working and it's the government that needs to change its policies.''

Asked whether there was room for compromise on the so-called Malaysia solution, he replied, ''I think it's up to the government to say what it's going to do differently. Plainly, the Malaysian people swap is not offshore processing, it's offshore dumping.

''There have been thousands of boat people arrive illegally since this position was first announced and this position is limited to 800 people, so plainly it's simply inadequate as a response to the scale of the problem that has been created.

''The only way to sort this out is to change the policies that just aren't working. The only way to fix this problem is for the government to do things differently. That's the only way to fix this problem.

''It is not the job of the opposition to support bad legislation from a failing government. It's not our job to support legislation that we don't believe in; in fact, legislation that we think is wrong, wrong in principle and wrong in practice.''

All valid points.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...um-seeker-policy/story-fn9hm1gu-1226406704519