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The evolving story of those burns,

TWO Somalis at the centre of grave allegations against the Australian navy in recent turn-back operations admit their burns were sustained during clashes with the sailors, who in one case had been forced to prevent asylum-seekers scuttling their boat.

The ABC last week reported claims by asylum-seekers that they were "beaten" by navy personnel "and told to hold on to parts of a hot engine on a boat being towed back to Indonesia".

The government and Defence have vehemently rejected claims the asylum-seekers were mistreated. And the new accounts of the incidents provided to The Australian yesterday, which suggest the injuries happened during scuffles, cast further doubt on the claims of deliberate abuse.

It has also emerged that the person who made the most serious claims to the ABC was not on board the boat where the alleged abuse took place.

Ninety-two people in two boats were forced back to Rote Island, southwest of Kupang in Indonesia's eastern archipelago - on December 19 and January 6.

Eighteen-year-old Mohamed Abdirashid, whose boat was forced back to Indonesia on December 19, said yesterday his arm injury happened as the asylum-seekers continued to "quarrel" with the sailors.

"I told (a sailor) at the time - I was angry - I said, 'Don't touch me again'," he said. "He caught me like this and threw me into the engine. "When I (fell on to) the pump, I said: 'F. . k you!' He said, 'Lay down, lay down, lay down'. I laid down. They handcuffed me."

Bowby Nooris, 20, who was among a boatload of 47 asylum-seekers returned to Indonesia on January 6, said his burned hand happened because the sailors aboard that boat had used "teargas" to quell a protest. Temporarily blinded, Bowby said, he stumbled against the hot machinery and burned his right hand.

About eight days earlier, when the group was first located by the navy, on an island they say was in sight of Darwin, Bowby said the asylum-seekers struggled and protested against being forced back on to their fishing boat.

"There was a big fight at the time between (asylum-seekers trying to) destroy the boat and the (navy) members, those who were on boat," he said.

The chief of Kupang police, who concluded an investigation without resolving the allegations, said last week seven people were burned seriously enough to require hospital treatment.

The Australian spoke to two of those injured asylum-seekers yesterday, mostly through the Kupang returnees' self-appointed spokesman Sharmarke Abdullah Ahmad, a 25-year-old Somali business and English student who made the most serious allegations aired on the ABC.

Those three and Abdi Karim Mubarak, who witnessed events on the December 19 boat, say they are prepared to give their evidence to Australian investigators.

"We know the people who (have) done these kind of incidents, we know their names and we know their ships, we know them by physical appearance" said Abdi, a 36-year-old former seaman, speaking through Sharmarke, who has good English.

Abdi and Sharmarke say they can identify the three navy vessels that pushed back the December 19 boat - by the numbers on their hulls, 88, 83 and 154 - and some RAN members involved. Two sailors from ship 154 "made physical abuses to us". Sharmarke said the captain of No 88 "was rather a good man".

"He claimed, 'It's not up to me, this decision is up to government' and we just waited for the answer from the government as he said."

Last night Immigration Minister Scott Morrison cast further doubt on the asylum-seekers' allegations.

"After first claiming they were tortured, the individuals have now changed their story and are making further unsubstantiated claims against our navy and Customs and Border Protection Service, alleging inappropriate use of force," he said.

"Australians can make up their own minds who they wish to believe. I accept the assurances of our navy and our Customs and Border Protection Service, who routinely put their own lives at risk to protect our borders and save those who try to breach them. I know and trust that our navy and Customs and Border Protection Service act in accordance with their training and would only use force where necessary and appropriate to deal with threatening and non-compliant behaviour.

"There are clear rules and guidelines to govern their behaviour and use of force and they are well trained to act in accordance with these rules. I'll back their professionalism and integrity over the self serving claims of those unhappy that they were denied what the people smugglers promised them."

The asylum-seekers were interviewed yesterday by The Australian and the ABC, which has been at the centre of the domestic controversy over the navy mistreatment allegations.

The four raised some fresh matters, such as alleged use of "teargas" on the January 6 boat - which appears to have been pepper spray - and additional descriptions of the RAN vessels and personnel involved. The interviews failed to yield any corroboration for allegations RAN personnel deliberately burned some asylum-seekers by making them "hold on to a hot engine pipe".

On the alleged use of pepper spray, a spokesman for Mr Morrison said last night Border Protection Command personnel were trained in the use of "personal defensive equipment" and medical assistance was provided if required to anyone overcome by their use.

"The equipment is used, for example, to bring people under control when they are engaged in non-compliant, threatening behaviour to other passengers or crew," the spokesman said. "The government rejects any suggestion that such devices have been used in a manner that was not compliant with standard procedures and training. Any such claim is baseless."

Sharmarke, who was responsible for publicising the most serious allegations about the events on the January 6 boat, was a passenger on the December 19 boat. Yesterday, he seemed unclear about the precise nature of the allegations. Speaking about two other asylum-seekers who had jumped overboard, he claimed at one point that sailors "just physically beat and then forced them to hold the (engine) pipe".

Those men have been transferred to Tanjung Pinang immigration detention centre; Sharmarke conceded later he had no direct knowledge of the claimed incident, which happened on the January 6 boat.

The "hold(ing) on to a hot engine pipe" claim was aired on ABC radio's January 22 AM program, together with an introduction that "new footage appears to back asylum-seekers' claims of mistreatment by the Australian navy".
Click to expand...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...tories-revealed/story-fn9hm1gu-1226814426441#

Meanwhile, Scott Morrison will appear at a Labor/Greens-dominated Senate inquiry in Canberra today to defend the government's Operation Sovereign Borders policy.

Today's OSB operational update is looking like it will be no boats over the past week.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...olicy-offensive/story-fn9hm1gu-1226814437544#
 
drsmith said:
The evolving story of those burns,



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...tories-revealed/story-fn9hm1gu-1226814426441#

Meanwhile, Scott Morrison will appear at a Labor/Greens-dominated Senate inquiry in Canberra today to defend the government's Operation Sovereign Borders policy.

Today's OSB operational update is looking like it will be no boats over the past week.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...olicy-offensive/story-fn9hm1gu-1226814437544#
Click to expand...

Doc, I watched some of the senate committee enquiry and I could not believe the gimcrack questions coming out of the mouths of Carr and Hanson-Young.....They were asking question for the sake of asking questions which had no punch whatsoever......They were all at SEA, pardon the pun, and they tried all they could to discredit the OSP......Labor and the Greens must be furious that there has been no boat arrivals for 43 days.
 
bellenuit said:
I watched most of it. Morrison did a great job and he and his team made SHY in particular but also Carr and Ludwig look like amateurs.
Click to expand...
Not to mention how extraordinarily rude Senator Carr managed to be. Good for Scott Morrison.
It won't, however, stop the whining from the Left.
 
I watched most of it. Thought that Scott Morrison excelled. I can't believe the fuss labor and green are making about the control of information policy adopted by the government. Surely they should be relieved that the mass drownings have abated.

I guess that this is the only area they can attack what is proving to be a very effective policy.
 
A detailed media story on a turn back using one of the recently purchased bright orange lifeboats.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...lum-seeker-boats/story-fni0xqrb-1226815340238

Most encouraging is this,

Australia is also being assisted indirectly by Indonesia, who despite the current political difficulties is staging its own crackdown.

An Indonesian intelligence source said agents were flooding known smuggling hot spots looking to break the industry from the inside by exposing military and police known to assist smugglers moving people to the coast and onto the boats.

"The belief is that many individuals in the military and police are involved," said the intelligence officer. "They are getting much more attention now. They are putting kuching (meaning cats, or spies) everywhere. If there is good control, the problem with Australia will stop."
Click to expand...

Friday's OSP operational update confirmed no boats over the past week. It's now been 6-weeks without a boat arrival. Voluntary returns to country of origin from Offshore Processing Centres since OSB commenced on 18 September 2013 has increased by 2 over the past week to a total of 141.

http://newsroom.customs.gov.au/channels/operational-updates/releases/operational-update-31-january
 
Julia said:
Not to mention how extraordinarily rude Senator Carr managed to be. Good for Scott Morrison.
Click to expand...
My sentiments also. Shouting and finger wagging ... what an arrogant and incompetent half-wit he is. Morrison's self-control was beautiful to watch.

Labor created the problem, now they can't handle the fact that the govt. is fixing it.

Those orange lifeboats are shaping up as a stroke of genius. The illegals can't scuttle them like they do with the fishing boats and the Indos end up with excellent vessels they can use as patrol boats. :xyxthumbs
 
From some one who was there.
If the 'tub thumpers' care not to read it, I'd hardly be suprised

--------------------------------------
Lauren Smith saw the Department of Immigration’s handling of asylum seeker cases from the inside. Now free from the bureaucracy, she wonders whether she should have spoken up.


"Why did ordinary men participate in the killing process during the Holocaust? This essay question in a university subject put me on the path that I am on today. I have travelled the world analysing the behaviour of people involved in war.

People react differently to war. A range of emotions take over: anger, pain, grief, loss, sadness, frustration and denial. But in every person I have seen fear. Then I have heard blame: someone else is responsible for these killings.

Usually, the people I am talking to do not feel responsible, including the perpetrators. People on all sides believe they are “the goodies” and that their actions were justified: the perpetrators, the victims, the bystanders.

And I was the same when confronted with being involved in the war on refugees. Believing I was doing a “good” job helping support people escaping war, I took work with the protection visa section of the Department of Immigration. I was providing administrative support to people determining who was a “genuine” refugee and who was not. Our team was determining which “boat people” could stay in the safety of Australia and who would be returned.

Shortly after joining this section I realised that the Australian government and some of my colleagues were seriously endangering innocent people by returning them to unsafe countries.

Throughout all of this I convinced myself that it was not my fault, I wanted to do good things but couldn’t. I blamed everyone else — I blamed the government, I blamed the officers. I blamed the Australian public for electing the government.

In May 2013, I went to Christmas Island; an experience that began to unravel my comforting alibis. I began to understand my participation in these callous and life threatening processes. I was there to organise screening interviews for Sri Lankan clients. Many of these clients were poor fisherman, coming to Australia as they would die of starvation if they stayed in Sri Lanka.

As they were viewed as “economic refugees”, the government saw an opportunity to send a strong message: they were not wanted in Australia. A secret process was created: enhanced screening. This denied these asylum seekers access to legal representation and proper protection during interviews. The aim was simply to send them back as quickly as possible. Sri Lanka is one of few countries to which Australia has the right to forcibly return asylum seekers. This opportunity was seized, ignoring much evidence that, for these asylum seekers, a return to Sri Lanka could imperil their lives.

In the north of Sri Lanka, there is still mass corruption and discrimination. This is affecting people’s livelihoods and starving desperate fisherman. These “economic refugees” are still imperilled by war’s prejudicial aftermath. I saw starving mothers holding newborn babies come off these boats. No matter what anyone says, there must be very serious reasons why they had risked their lives and the lives of their children to come to Australia. Their starvation was directly linked to the political climate of their country. However, Australia refuses to recognise this as a valid reason to claim refuge. So we returned these people, very possibly to die.

For a while I continued to delude myself that this wasn’t my fault. I didn’t make these decisions, the protection visa officers did. These people, these Sri Lankans, chose to take this journey. They understood the risk. And if they didn’t understand, the “people smuggler” did. The people smugglers were surely to blame.

However, the day I returned from Christmas Island I was told 28 life jackets had washed up on the shores of Cocos Island, an Australian island. Some 28 Iranian refugees had been killed in Australian waters.

I was devastated to learn this, but I begun to put together the pieces of the puzzle. For a week while I was on Christmas Island, I had been waiting for that boat to arrive on shore, so we could assess their claims for asylum. Hearing the news they had died sent me into a state of shock. I realised it was not the dangerous journey or the people smugglers that had killed these people, it was we Australians.

“We knew for a week they were close to our shores, we were constantly monitoring them, and we let them die.”
We knew for a week they were close to our shores, we were constantly monitoring them, and we let them die. We knew they were in trouble, and we chose not to save them. Furthermore, this was published in the newspaper, and Australian citizens just ignored the fact that our government believed it had the right to choose who lives or dies.

As I grappled with the seriousness of the situation, I had to ask myself some tough questions. Could I justify continuing to work for this department? I finally realised that although my intentions were good, my involvement had implicated me in these deaths.

Ultimately, I chose to leave the department rather than to continue to implement policies that: sent people back to their homelands risking their death; allowed people to drown in Australian and Indonesian waters; and detained people indefinitely in harsh conditions, with limited access to water, food and medical treatment. Unequivocally, we Australians are causing severe mental and physical harm to fellow human beings.

In the American justice system, if you witness a crime and do nothing to try and stop it, you are guilty by association. However, Australians do not have this obligation. This perplexes me, as the legal system should be a reflection of our morals and values. Protecting the vulnerable in society should not be choice but a moral obligation. In the end, if you do not help save someone’s life, you are, in some measure, responsible for their death.

Amid all the proud flag-waving this Australia Day weekend, I was unable to raise my flag. I did not feel comfortable celebrating the current pain Australia is causing other human beings and I know I was not alone.

Many Australians cannot frankly face the implications of our governments’ policies that deny others’ human rights and terrorise vulnerable people seeking our help. But we pretend we are not involved, that we do not know what is happening or we deny responsibility.

Every Sunday, Catholics like Tony Abbot attend church to remember Jesus’ life and his struggle to spread peace and stop unnecessary suffering. On Anzac Day we remember all those who have died at war and we say “lest we forget”. However, we appear to have forgotten what it means — that we should not forget the past: that people have died in many wars to help bring peace.

We can remember our past and learn from it, we can remember our journeys and celebrate our achievements. And, living in the present, we can forgive past mistakes and commit to not repeat them. When we see a problem we should try to resolve it quickly so it does not escalate into a crisis and harm us or others.

A civilisation is judged by how it treats the most vulnerable. I fear Australia has been found guilty of crimes against humanity, and no one seems able to talk about it, to reflect on what is being done.

If someone is in trouble it is our responsibility to help them out. We should not let people drown at sea; we should bring them safely to our shores. Once here, they should not be left to languish in interminable limbo, but helped to get on with their lives and to contribute meaningfully to Australia, like so many migrants who have come before them."
------------------------------------------------------

Written By ex-imagration officer Lauren Smith.
Everything Morrison is up to is about de-humanising asylum seekers, the less you see the less you know the less you care, and that plays well to many australians as evidenced by many posters to this thread.
 
Orr, in reply to ex Immigration officer Lauren Smith.

I can only agree with her sentiments and emotions pertaining to certain refugees but it must be remembered Australia has a relatively small population with limited resources to be able to provide for refugees......There are millions who would like to come to Australia and we Australians do provide for a certain quota each year and it must be carried out in an orderly and systematic fashion in keeping to what we can provide and afford......Those who are que jumping on illegal boats are not worthy of the privileges we provide especially when their ID's are destroyed before arriving on our shores..

I am sure, we Australians would all agree, preference should be given to those who are legitimate arrivals with the correct documentation, those who have a reasonalbe undertsanding of the English language, those who could be gainfully employed, those who are willing to settle in less populated areas and not in major city ghettos and above all those who are not religious fanactics who are hell bent on imposing their beliefs on our community.....They should be prepared to accept out way of life in their adopted country and if they can't, then they should return to their country of origin....We certainly don't need refugees who are willing to accept welfare handouts for the rest of their lives and so be a burden to the Auatralian tax payers.....we should have the choice as to who would be suitable and willing to work and dovetail into our community.

We don't need a repeat of what is happening in France and the UK where we have Muslims closing off streets so they can show their strength by praying 5 times a day....these are not the type of refugees we need here in Australia.

I am sorry....but that is the way I feel.
 
My reply to ex Immigration officer Lauren Smith is far simpler.

The foundation of any immigration program is that the country of destination is in control and is thus orderly. Other aspects such as numbers and skilled vs humanitarian can then be built on that.

Immigration by illegal people smuggling operations does not satisfy that basic requirement and the mentioning of the holocaust at the beginning of the article doesn't change that.
 
drsmith said:
My reply to ex Immigration officer Lauren Smith is far simpler.

The foundation of any immigration program is that the country of destination is in control and is thus orderly. Other aspects such as numbers and skilled vs humanitarian can then be built on that.

Immigration by illegal people smuggling operations does not satisfy that basic requirement and the mentioning of the holocaust at the beginning of the article doesn't change that.
Click to expand...


Sorry Doc when people are fleeing terror you might just expect things to be a 'little disorderly', I know I would be.
As reported on the ABC's 11pm02/02/2014 radio national news, A Sri Lankan Journalist has been murdered( Multiple Knife wounds)... more details to follow... Maybe Andrew Bolt would swollow the Sri Lankan Governmet line of 'domestic tiff', as no doubt will you.

My preference would of been that more pertinence was put on the 'Nuremberg defence' in Ms Smiths article, as opposed to any to the reference 'holocaust ' .
Some times People just have to stand up; Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson actions during the 'Mia Lia Massacre' are one such example.
And noco, yeh there's a lot of'em, and whilst governments play lick spittle to regimes that create them there'll only ever be more...
 
orr said:
Sorry Doc when people are fleeing terror you might just expect things to be a 'little disorderly', I know I would be.
Click to expand...
Over 50,000 boat arrivals, a $12bn cost and counting and over 1,000 deaths at sea not disorderly enough ?

And that from a government who near the end of their 6-year ideological bender conceded this,

BOB CARR: They're coming from majority religious or ethnic groups in the countries their fleeing, they're coming here as economic migrants.
Click to expand...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-26/senior-labor-figures-comment-on-leadership-change/4784010

Consider for a moment how many of those 1,000 might still be alive today had the previous Rudd/Gillard not gone down the path they did.

As a matter of basic principal, human civilisation has grown through order, not disorder.
 
The Refugee Review Tribunal needs a clean out,

A Bangladeshi woman with a violent husband has won asylum in Australia, despite a tribunal's suspicion that she "fabricated" evidence.

The Refugee Review Tribunal ruled the woman had a "well-founded fear of persecution" in Bangladesh because she was female and vulnerable to domestic violence.

It raised concerns that the woman could have "fabricated" the asylum claim with her husband's help. Yet it overruled the Immigration Department's decision to deny refugee status to the woman and her son, who flew to Australia as tourists.

In a newly published judgment, tribunal member Rowena Irish refers to the "endemic nature of domestic violence against women in Bangladesh generally" and concludes that "the absence of gender equality" is a reason to grant asylum under the Refugee Convention.

"The tribunal accepts that women are discriminated against and viewed as inferior in Bangladesh," her judgment states.
Click to expand...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-asylum-granted/story-fn9hm1gu-1226815334475#
 
Interesting piece today in The West Australian.

It looks like another one of those orange lifeboats have been put into service.

People smugglers are struggling to fill vessels despite offering big discounts to asylum seekers as the Federal Government's policy on boats appears to be working as it intended.

The West Australian has been told a boat recently intercepted by Border Protection Command had only 35 people aboard when normally it would have been crammed with two or three times that number.

And in a clear sign Indonesian-based criminals are having difficulties finding willing passengers, the 35 people were sourced by nine separate smuggling syndicates.

The offer of cut-price voyages to Australia is being likened to a "going out of business" sale by people smugglers, as the Abbott Government's hardline border protection regime takes effect.

But the Government nevertheless expects people smugglers, some aided by corrupt Indonesian officials, will seek to increase their activity when the monsoon season eases this month and next month.

Asylum seekers in Indonesia have said they are well aware of the Abbott Government's tough border policies and many have given up hope of getting to Australia.

While no boats have reached Australia since December 19, sources have confirmed that Border Protection Command has turned back at least six asylum seeker vessels in the past two months, including the January 15 return of about 60 people on one of the 11 lifeboats bought last month in Singapore for $500,000 apiece.

The Government has thrown a curtain of secrecy over all border protection operations and has refused to confirm tow-backs or turn-backs of asylum vessels.

Late last week, authorities intercepted a boat as it approached Christmas Island and asylum seekers were put into one of the new lifeboats.

Christmas Island residents reported seeing the bright orange vessel being towed by ACV Triton at the weekend.

Agency sources said the lifeboats, which can carry 90 passengers, have been slightly modified to prevent the asylum seekers using them to sail back to Australia.

The 8.5m fully enclosed survival capsules are fitted with navigational equipment, lifejackets, food, water and diesel motors.

Iranian asylum seekers who were returned to Indonesia on January 15 aboard one of the lifeboats said they spent 10 days aboard a navy ship after attempting to scuttle their wooden boat within sight of Christmas Island.

On the 10th day, they said, they were ordered into one of the lifeboats and given documents informing them they would not be allowed to enter Australian waters.

An Indonesian crew piloted the lifeboat to West Java, shadowed by a customs vessel, and the lifeboat was run aground on a jungle beach. It is unclear whether the Australian Government will seek to have the lifeboats returned once used.
Click to expand...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/
 
drsmith said:
Interesting piece today in The West Australian.

It looks like another one of those orange lifeboats have been put into service.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/
Click to expand...

From the above article,

The West Australian has been told a boat recently intercepted by Border Protection Command had only 35 people aboard when normally it would have been crammed with two or three times that number.

And in a clear sign Indonesian-based criminals are having difficulties finding willing passengers, the 35 people were sourced by nine separate smuggling syndicates.
Click to expand...
An orange life boat has turned up on the coast of Java last night carrying 34. Two resisted and were not transferred to the life boat.

Could they be these two ?

Earlier this week Mr Morrison told an Australian newspaper that two asylum seekers were transferred for medical treatment, one of them for a heart condition.
Click to expand...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-...ylum-seekers-lands-on-indonesia-coast/5243990

The next OSB operational update is due tomorrow.
 
Chris Bowen and SHY whinge about the latest orange lifeboat turning up on the shores of Java while the asylum tide turns in SE Asia.

Malaysian officials revealed the Maritime Enforcement Agency has for the first time intercepted boat people returning from Indonesia to Malaysia across the Malacca Straits because they could not get to Australia.

The official in charge of Malaysia's operations described it as a complete "reversal" of the people smuggling trade, claiming it was a direct result of Australia's Operation Sovereign Borders. "I would definitely say so, there is a change of patterns now … a reverse movement of people," director-general of the MMEA Admiral Mohd Amdan Kurish told The Daily Telegraph.

"Recently when we had our operation last month where we have a reverse movement of people … we intercepted 27 people, Bangladeshi, who would normally move out of the country, *Malaysia, to go to Australia.
Click to expand...

http://www.news.com.au/national/the...olicy-is-working/story-fncynjr2-1226820087354
 

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