Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Animal rights and ethical food production

Jump to new
SirRumpole said:
I think we had better start living on synthesised protein pills. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Plenty of protein in Plants mate, protein comes from plants, when you eat an animal you are getting second hand protein.

for example Peanut Butter has more protein than mince meat, and when you eat spaghetti bolognese, you get more protein from the Pasta than you do the meat, if you eat weetbix, the weetbix has more protein than the milk.

It's a myth that you need animal products for protein.

 
SirRumpole said:
Didn't you read the bit that says plants feel pain ?
Click to expand...

Plants don’t feel pain, but even if they did then we should definitely avoid eating meat, because Cattle eat a lot more plants than you do, so eating the plants yourself rather than feeding them to the animals then eating the animals is more efficient.

Also, plants create fruits for the purpose of animals eating them, a fruit is the bribe a plant gives an animal to help it spread its seeds.

Apples exist because the apple trees want an animal to eat the apple flesh and then discard or poop out the seeds and helping spread those seeds.

 
A friend just shared this link with me,

It shows Kosher Slaughter of lambs in Australia, The Jews will only eat the front legs because that is the only part that is considered Kosher.

So if you are eating lamb in Australia, there is good chance that your lamb has ben killed this way, because the rest of the lamb is sold into the regular meat market, only the front legs are sold as kosher.

I challenge you to watch this video before you eat Lamb again, If you can't bare the thought of watching the video, then simply don't eat Lamb (or any meat)


Click where it says "watch on facebook", then click to uncover video.
 
Tisme said:
The actions in that video are gross violations and I would advocate imprisonment for all involved. Similarly I don't supported live exports outside Australia, religious branding, etc.
Click to expand...

Agree with both of the above points
 
Tisme said:
The actions in that video are gross violations and I would advocate imprisonment for all involved..
Click to expand...

No Charges were laid.

The casual staff member was fired, and the full time staff member were allocated to other duties inside the abattoir.
 
Value Collector said:
No Charges were laid.

The casual staff member was fired, and the full time staff member were allocated to other duties inside the abattoir.
Click to expand...

Beggars belief, but I guess it helps cement your argument against the industry and eating habits.
 
Value Collector said:
No Charges were laid.

The casual staff member was fired, and the full time staff member were allocated to other duties inside the abattoir.
Click to expand...

It looks horrible to us, but it's possible that some such animals don't suffer the way we imagine they might.

Suffering requires self-awareness, and afaik it's uncertain whether animals like pigs and cattle have that awareness. Certainly they feel pain - that's obvious. But suffering is what makes pain intolerable. Without suffering, pain is just another sensory input to the brain. Pain itself, even severe pain, is not particularly problematic in the absense of self-awareness.

Consider a newborn baby boy. Cutting the foreskin off with a sharp scalpel [no anaesthetic], he screeches in pain, but there's no suffering. Despite being fully conscious sensory beings, babies have absolutely no self-awareness. That comes around age 2. The recoil/reaction is more like a hard-coded neurological response.

Some animals appear to have a degree of self awareness - dolphins, chimps, dogs etc. Treating these sorts of animals this way, as they do in certain asian and arab countries is completely unacceptable. Not so sure about the lower animal forms. If it turned out they did have self awareness, then we shouldn't kill them for any reason, least of all food.
 
Last edited:
If we want to stamp these things out it's a matter of having the right inspection procedures. Random and secret audits with video evidence that things are above board.

This is where animal activists probably do a better job than employed inspectors because they really believe in what they are doing. Impassive inspectors can be got at. There could be some "learnings" there.
 



Humane Society International
Do you have 10 seconds help us stop the killing of dogs and cats for human consumption in Indonesia, and the cruel industry that profits from animal suffering and slaughter?

Sign the Dog Meat-Free Indonesia petition urging President Joko Widodo to ban this cruelty and save countless dogs and cats from a horrible fate.


Sign the petition. Urge the President of Indonesia to ban the cruel dog and cat meat trade.
Click "Sign Up" to join the fight!
Sign Up
ACTION.HSI.ORG

https://goo.gl/o6WLNT


http://www.hsi.org/news/press_relea...528.835813060.1516701446-647046328.1511267462
 
Tisme said:



Humane Society International
Do you have 10 seconds help us stop the killing of dogs and cats for human consumption in Indonesia, and the cruel industry that profits from animal suffering and slaughter?

Sign the Dog Meat-Free Indonesia petition urging President Joko Widodo to ban this cruelty and save countless dogs and cats from a horrible fate.


Sign the petition. Urge the President of Indonesia to ban the cruel dog and cat meat trade.
Click "Sign Up" to join the fight!
Sign Up
ACTION.HSI.ORG

https://goo.gl/o6WLNT


http://www.hsi.org/news/press_relea...528.835813060.1516701446-647046328.1511267462
Click to expand...

Can you in your wildest dreams imagine Widodo reading a petition and changing the law?

Change requires serious power, and for the most part, power lies with the rich, the well-connected, the politicians and big business.

The new trend is to use shaming (social media and the press) to bring people to justice - and that can be powerful - but some people are shameless and it doesn't work on them. If the perpetrator is powerful and shameless, nothing can be done except wait for things to change...which they will eventually.
 
Politicians won't do anything because they are gutless. They don't want to upset our 'neighbours'. Well Trump has proved that if your lovely neighbours (NK, China, Russia) are behaving like ar.seholes, then you can call them to account. But it takes guts to do that.
 
Gringotts Bank said:
It looks horrible to us, but it's possible that some such animals don't suffer the way we imagine they might.

Suffering requires self-awareness, and afaik it's uncertain whether animals like pigs and cattle have that awareness. Certainly they feel pain - that's obvious. But suffering is what makes pain intolerable. Without suffering, pain is just another sensory input to the brain. Pain itself, even severe pain, is not particularly problematic in the absense of self-awareness.

Consider a newborn baby boy. Cutting the foreskin off with a sharp scalpel [no anaesthetic], he screeches in pain, but there's no suffering. Despite being fully conscious sensory beings, babies have absolutely no self-awareness. That comes around age 2. The recoil/reaction is more like a hard-coded neurological response.

.
Click to expand...

I think you are working of 1950's pseudoscience.

Such myths have even been used to justify human slavery before.



Some animals appear to have a degree of self awareness - dolphins, chimps, dogs etc. Treating these sorts of animals this way, as they do in certain asian and arab countries is completely unacceptable. Not so sure about the lower animal forms.
Click to expand...

Can you explain scientifically what separates a dog and a pig in terms of intelligence and ability to suffer ?

You are simply conforming to cultural bias, you see pig and being different to a dog simply because you have been raised to see them differently.

If it turned out they did have self awareness, then we shouldn't kill them for any reason, least of all food
Click to expand...

That part of you logic is working, but the rest of your logic is working of some rather seriously flawed beliefs.
 
Last edited:
Gringotts Bank said:
Certainly they feel pain - that's obvious. But suffering is what makes pain intolerable. Without suffering, pain is just another sensory input to the brain. Pain itself, even severe pain, is not particularly problematic in the absense of self-awareness.
Click to expand...
The pain / pleasure principle. Moving away from pain and toward pleasure is what ensures continuity of life. Yes humans have descriptions for their "emotional" content.
 
Wysiwyg said:
The pain / pleasure principle. Moving away from pain and toward pleasure is what ensures continuity of life. Yes humans add descriptions to their "emotional" content.
Click to expand...

Yes, and humans are not as different as we like to think when it comes to other animals, especially the mammals.

I am sure that it is comforting for people eating a steak to console themselves with thoughts like "cows don't really suffer anyway" "they are treated well before I paid to have them killed" etc etc But those thoughts are based on wishful thinking, not facts.

 
I am surprised cattle/sheep have not learned from their past relative's experiences and fight or flight. Seems their memory banks are not effective to keep them alive.
 
Wysiwyg said:
I am surprised cattle/sheep have not learned from their past relative's experiences and fight or flight. Seems their memory banks are not effective to keep them alive.
Click to expand...

They are been bred of the years to non violent and passive, eg. Farmers keep the nice ones as breeders and the troublesome ones were slaughtered early without becoming breeders.

But if you have watched videos inside slaughter houses, you definitely see sheep and cattle trying to fight and escape, for example that sheep one, did you watch the face book video I shared above, the sheep were doing their best to escape even after their throats were cut some were trying to escape.

In the video you see it take 2 big men to hold some of the sheep down, they are definitely fighting for their lives, very sad.

It is hard to watch, But I highly recommend it, especially if you eat meat you owe it to the animals to see what they see and what they are forced to endure, at least then you can make an informed decision on whether your taste for meat is worth the cost you are forcing these innocent animals to pay.
 
Top