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Animal rights and ethical food production

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Value Collector said:
Protein comes from plants, anyone eating a range of plants and grains is going to get more than enough protein, However if you avoid plant based protein and instead go for meat you not get enough fibre and suffer problems from a fibre deficiency.

It's a myth that you need meat for protein, or that going vegan will cause a protein deficiency.
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Yes we know that now, but I doubt if our hunter/gatherer ancestors had the dietary knowledge that we have now. :rolleyes:
 
qldfrog said:
about chimps, they actually crave meat and go into bloody and amazingly/scary cunning hunts, a few google search will leave you with video you will not see on TVs.
The more I know about chimps, the scarier I get, and they are like our twin brothers evolutionary wise
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Yeah, I said they ate meat. but its not an every day thing, it's not even an every week thing.

They eat a relatively small amount, every now and again.

As I said we need vitamin B12, but our bodies can store 12 months worth in the liver, So thats a sign that animal products weren't an every day thing.

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Also on the topic of B12,

80% of the B12 supplement produced get fed to farm animals, because the factory farming method produces animals that a deficient in B12.

So rather than cruelly farming animals, feeding them B12 so then we can eat them and get the B12, Why not just eat cruelty free plant diet then eat the B12 supplements our selves?
 
SirRumpole said:
but I doubt if our hunter/gatherer ancestors had the dietary knowledge that we have now. :rolleyes:
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Meat consumption didn't boom to the levels it is at now until farming took off, (except for areas where humans moved to such as the arctic where plants don't really grow, so they started eating more fish and seals)
 
Disregarding the evolutionary, environmental, dietary and health side of things, is there an ethical way to eat red and white meat (cow, pig, lamb, chicken)?

As a meat lover this thread has definitely got me thinking about things
 
fiftyeight said:
Disregarding the evolutionary, environmental, dietary and health side of things, is there an ethical way to eat red and white meat (cow, pig, lamb, chicken)?
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Probably not now that we know what goes on in the process of putting these things on the table.

And then there is the problem of eating intelligent species at all. OK so they can't communicate but they feel pain and have concern for their offspring etc.

I don't think most people consider these things. Will it make me give up eating chicken and eggs ? (I don't eat beef and pork anyway usually). Maybe, maybe not, but every time I do eat these things I won't enjoy them as much as I used to.
 
My grandparents owned a small dairy and orchard farm, so as a young child I spent a lot of time out there. The cows had plenty of green grass and plenty of room to roam around. However I was never up for milking and was not privy to a lot of the stuff discussed here.

Re diary, I could easily never eat diary again, we already use almond milk due to taste. Eggs I can pass on as well.

Cows and pigs are not primates. I am not convinced that a cow or pig farmed on something like a small hobby farm who is in the routine of walking through a "barn" every afternoon and was discretely and subtly pulled away from the herd for slaughter has any different quality of life than a cow or pig left in the field until natural death by age or predator.

I know this is not common practise but surely it exists?
 
I like the idea of clean eating, but people need to be careful in the vegetables they select. The majority from supermarkets and fruit and veg shops are packed full of pesticides and growth hormones.

Sometimes the smaller shops are worse as there are no real checks. And some of the smaller farmers that go to sydney markets are shocking.

I know some of the chemicals they use to make fruit and veg swell and get bigger. Theres all kinds of tricks to get your fruit and vegetables to market with increased weight and bug free.
And its still easy to get those chemicals that you are not suppose to be using.

There is a list of the 12 most contaminated fruit/veg on the net. There are also online delivery services that deal in organics.

I don't think there are a lot of articles dealing with all the pgrs and pesticides (there was a supposed ban, but I still see guys using the bad ones).

Meat and veg is full of all kinds of c.rap to get it to market in the most profitable manner. And the only way you know whats in it is testing or grow your own.
 
moXJO said:
I like the idea of clean eating, but people need to be careful in the vegetables they select. The majority from supermarkets and fruit and veg shops are packed full of pesticides and growth hormones.

Sometimes the smaller shops are worse as there are no real checks. And some of the smaller farmers that go to sydney markets are shocking.

I know some of the chemicals they use to make fruit and veg swell and get bigger. Theres all kinds of tricks to get your fruit and vegetables to market with increased weight and bug free.
And its still easy to get those chemicals that you are not suppose to be using.

There is a list of the 12 most contaminated fruit/veg on the net. There are also online delivery services that deal in organics.

I don't think there are a lot of articles dealing with all the pgrs and pesticides (there was a supposed ban, but I still see guys using the bad ones).

Meat and veg is full of all kinds of c.rap to get it to market in the most profitable manner. And the only way you know whats in it is testing or grow your own.
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Lotsa stuff coming in from third world countries....even garlic ffs.

If people saw the prawn and fish farms in Asia they wouldn't buy the crap from Woolies... actually they probably would because don't want to know, just the govt and white spot.
 
Tisme said:
Lotsa stuff coming in from third world countries....even garlic ffs.

If people saw the prawn and fish farms in Asia they wouldn't buy the crap from Woolies... actually they probably would because don't want to know, just the govt and white spot.
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Yeah I've seen a few small farms. They eat the chicken shite that falls from the cages above the pond.
I have also seen rat meat turned into chicken skewer sticks, yum yum.
 
fiftyeight said:
Disregarding the evolutionary, environmental, dietary and health side of things, is there an ethical way to eat red and white meat (cow, pig, lamb, chicken)?
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This video shows pigs being slaughtered in Australia by the Carbon dioxide exposure method.

This is meant to be humane, But you can see the way they are freaking out and gasping for breathe.




But, does the pig actually suffer, the answer is yes.

This video below is a test done years ago to see whether the pig would suffer in the gas chamber, they fed a pig in a seal chamber for a few weeks to get it used to walking in and out, once it was used to entering the chamber they filled it with gas till it passed out, they then revived the pig and tried to feed it in the chamber again, the pig refused to enter the chamber and preferred to starve for 3 days, that is a clear sign that the process induces severe suffering.

it shows that for decades we have known the gas method causes suffering, yet we still do it.

 
moXJO said:
Yeah I've seen a few small farms. They eat the chicken shite that falls from the cages above the pond.
I have also seen rat meat turned into chicken skewer sticks, yum yum.
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Not only chicken's... There are always a cubical over the pond too. Those aren't for fish watching.
 
A 100 year old Vegan, (now 102).

Worked as a doctor till he was 95, and still is bright as a spark.

 
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This thread has definitely got me thinking about my current diet. My sister has been a very strict vegetarian for about 20 years and I have always just brushed it off.

Start of a healthier diet?
 
fiftyeight said:
View attachment 86467 This thread has definitely got me thinking about my current diet. My sister has been a very strict vegetarian for about 20 years and I have always just brushed it off.

Start of a healthier diet?
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Nice one mate, I have felt so much better since I went Pescatarian. I have learned there are so many good alternatives for dairy, There are some great vegan cheese, milk, ice cream, yogurt etc at Woolies now, and woolies and Coles both stock some great Vegan meat free stuff, like ham, mince, pies, chicken, sausages etc.
 
SirRumpole said:
And then there is the problem of eating intelligent species at all. OK so they can't communicate but they feel pain and have concern for their offspring etc.
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There is no thought from a cheetah when it chokes out the gazelle. Why do you have it? Billions of years of life had no compassion for what it consumed.
 
Tisme said:
Lotsa stuff coming in from third world countries....even garlic ffs.

If people saw the prawn and fish farms in Asia they wouldn't buy the crap from Woolies... actually they probably would because don't want to know, just the govt and white spot.
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I deliberately avoid food imported from China, Thailand , Vietnam etc.
 
Wysiwyg said:
There is no thought from a cheetah when it chokes out the gazelle. Why do you have it? Billions of years of life had no compassion for what it consumed.
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Just to let you know, Every vegan and vegetarian has heard people say such things a million times, and it just shows more about a persons ignorance on the subject or their stupidity, it is not seen as a smart arguement.

There is no thought from a lion when he kills a females cubs and then rapes her, did you really want to use lion habits as a basis of our actions or morality?

Humans have developed empathy, and most of us don’t want to put other thinking creatures through unnecessary pain and suffering, and eating meat is unnecessary, and when faced with the reality of what goes on to supply our food, a lot of people don’t want to support it.

Humans are not carnivores, we are omnivores that can thrive on a plant based diet, so we have no need terrorize and enslave other thinking mammals or birds.
 
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