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Animal rights and ethical food production

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SirRumpole said:
In theory yes, but as far as the law goes ?

What does the law say about animal mistreatment ? Just the fact that an animal is on a farm is not mistreatment according to the law even though it may be in your opinion.

I can see nasty things happening if activism goes too far in this area, even though the activists may be right on occasions.
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The fact is these "farms" are not really "farms" as the public would see it.

And if every time they activists enter they are finding animals that need vet care and are being mistreated, they can't really be found guilty, hence why they tend to get off without charge.

The activists aren't just randomly raiding properties, they generally conduct a lot of research, and often when they find a producer who they are pretty sure is mistreating animals, they do covert missions to plant hidden cameras etc to get evidence (which is probably illegal, but hey they give ****)

Once they have the evidence they will stage a larger scale protest, and arrange to remove the animals that are suffering if they can.

Take a look at the hidden camera footage of on this "Farm", its not overly graphic, but see if you yourself would say this facility is a farm?

 
SirRumpole said:
Interesting dichotomy, public interest vs individual privacy.

Basically I think it's likely to divide the community and possibly stir up violent confrontations, but it's also just putting the truth in easily accessible form.

Should people be banned from publishing such data ? I don't think so but at the same time I don't think it's particularly responsible to do so.

I'd be interested to hear what VC thinks about it.
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I think the makers of the map and the activists who praised it should be sentenced to 6 months cleaning out pigsties and collecting cow pats.
 
Tink said:
Has vegan activism gone too far?

An interactive map that shows Australians where the nation’s farms and abattoirs are has been praised by animal rights activists, but labelled “despicable” by the federal government.

Agriculture Minister David Littleproud hit out at the map launched by animal rights group Aussie Farms, saying the “stupidity” of activists might “ironically” cause the death of the very animals they claim are being exploited.

The Nationals MP said the map detailing the location of these properties and abattoirs published by Aussie Farms, including home addresses, could pose biosecurity risks by encouraging vigilantes to break onto properties.

Speaking on The Project, National Farmers’ Federation president Fiona Simson even claimed Aussie Farms was engaging in “terrorist activity” by subjecting Australia’s “family farms” to such unverified exposure.

“Here in Australia we are about family farms... they’re mums and dads and kids... so, by having their private and personal details published... I think really it is stepping over the line,” she said.

Mr Littleproud said the map is promoting illegal activity.

“They’re creating an attack list for animals activists to go and trespass, to break the law,” Mr Littleproud told ABC Radio National on Tuesday.

https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/a...p/news-story/d8f4774c61e6c2e2cc42468ce80d0a44
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"A Nationals MP" ......... "Speaking on The Project, National Farmers’ Federation president Fiona Simpson"
These people wouldn't be biased and pushing a certain agenda would they :D

Be careful what you post VC, vids of Bodybuilders juiced to the gills on Steroids, particularly IFBB Pros isn't credible. Its all about endorsements from dirty supplement companies.

The trend now for strength athletes is to go full carnivore. I couldn't/wouldn't do it but I know a World Champion and some other very strong people who do.

Maybe animal products should be outlawed.Sticking live chicks into grinders and all the other atrocities that happen is just wrong.
Anyone else notice people who Hunt tend to be or become pi$$ poor people ethically?
 
Darc Knight said:
"A Nationals MP" ......... "Speaking on The Project, National Farmers’ Federation president Fiona Simpson"
These people wouldn't be biased and pushing a certain agenda would they :D

Be careful what you post VC, vids of Bodybuilders juiced to the gills on Steroids, particularly IFBB Pros isn't credible. Its all about endorsements from dirty supplement companies.

The trend now for strength athletes is to go full carnivore. I couldn't/wouldn't do it but I know a World Champion and some other very strong people who do.

Maybe animal products should be outlawed.Sticking live chicks into grinders and all the other atrocities that happen is just wrong.
Anyone else notice people who Hunt tend to be or become pi$$ poor people ethically?
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I believe the fitness/gym muscle crew are eating human placentas now to give them strength, the poor little small balled darlings.

How I wish I'd collected all the Gumnut birth placentas, and the bastards' births placentas, and the grandchildrens' births placentas.

At the going rate these muscled muppets pay I estimate somewhere between $250 and $500 thousand would be a realistic estimate.

I couldn't touch them myself. Gimme a steak or a pork chop or some veal any old day.

gg
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
I believe the fitness/gym muscle crew are eating human placentas now to give them strength, the poor little small balled darlings.

How I wish I'd collected all the Gumnut birth placentas, and the bastards' births placentas, and the grandchildrens' births placentas.

At the going rate these muscled muppets pay I estimate somewhere between $250 and $500 thousand would be a realistic estimate.

I couldn't touch them myself. Gimme a steak or a pork chop or some veal any old day.

gg
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That was a trend years ago. Seems to have faded now. Some shocking stuff happens. Because a lot of Bodybuilders have body image problems they are good targets for any "next big thing" product. Supplement companies are scum bags.
Some women still use placentas as a beauty treatment I'm told.
 
That would be
Darc Knight said:
"A Nationals MP" ......... "Speaking on The Project, National Farmers’ Federation president Fiona Simpson"
These people wouldn't be biased and pushing a certain agenda would they :D

Be careful what you post VC, vids of Bodybuilders juiced to the gills on Steroids, particularly IFBB Pros isn't credible. Its all about endorsements from dirty supplement companies.

The trend now for strength athletes is to go full carnivore. I couldn't/wouldn't do it but I know a World Champion and some other very strong people who do.

Maybe animal products should be outlawed.Sticking live chicks into grinders and all the other atrocities that happen is just wrong.
Anyone else notice people who Hunt tend to be or become pi$$ poor people ethically?
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Which of the body builders I posted use steroids?

As far as I know they are all clean eating type vegans.
 
Value Collector said:
That would be


Which of the body builders I posted use steroids?

As far as I know they are all clean eating type vegans.
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The biggest scam in Bodybuilding etc is people on Steroids advertising Supplements. The steroids make you amazingly big and ripped. You either claim "natty" or avoid answering the question of steroid use. People then associate your amazing body with the Supplements you endorse. The second biggest scam is Personal Trainers on Steroids - "you let me train you (for a fee) and you can look like me".
Back to your videos. I scanned those vids of yours, for that I'll never forgive you. The one with the young fellas (called Bro's), two aren't real big and just good lighting, fake tans and a pump makes then look like they even lift. One is certainly geared and probably not just Steroids but also using a lot more dangerous cutting drugs like Clenbuterol.
The IFBB is a non tested Bodybuilding federation - where the big boys go. I've been lifting for over 30 years due to an involvement in Martial Arts, Boxing and various Sports, I've known a lot of Steroid users, and a few dealers. (I haven't taken Steroids but have tried two PEDs). I've known two IFBB competitors, one open about his use, the other denied use and was ridiculed by other competitive Bodybuilders. To compete in the IFBB you pretty much need to be on Steroids as basically everyone else is.
 
Yes high priced australian sheep placenta beauty products in luxury and airport shops in china.
I have nothing against this.less waste but not keen on it myself
 
Darc Knight said:
The biggest scam in Bodybuilding etc is people on Steroids advertising Supplements. The steroids make you amazingly big and ripped. You either claim "natty" or avoid answering the question of steroid use. People then associate your amazing body with the Supplements you endorse. The second biggest scam is Personal Trainers on Steroids - "you let me train you (for a fee) and you can look like me".
Back to your videos. I scanned those vids of yours, for that I'll never forgive you. The one with the young fellas (called Bro's), two aren't real big and just good lighting, fake tans and a pump makes then look like they even lift. One is certainly geared and probably not just Steroids but also using a lot more dangerous cutting drugs like Clenbuterol.
The IFBB is a non tested Bodybuilding federation - where the big boys go. I've been lifting for over 30 years due to an involvement in Martial Arts, Boxing and various Sports, I've known a lot of Steroid users, and a few dealers. (I haven't taken Steroids but have tried two PEDs). I've known two IFBB competitors, one open about his use, the other denied use and was ridiculed by other competitive Bodybuilders. To compete in the IFBB you pretty much need to be on Steroids as basically everyone else is.
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Either way, steroid users generally eat loads of meat, right?

Even if those guys are on steroids (which I am not convinced off)
The video clearly shows you don’t need to eat meat, if some one is plannng on using animal products and steroids to get big, they can simply switch the animal products for plant based foods, the steoroids arguement is a red herring, because most steroid users are not vegan.

I linked the videos to simply show that you don’t need animal products to get big, you can get the same results from plant based foods, whether you choose to use steroids or not is a side issue, and not related to your food choices.
 
Value Collector said:
Either way, steroid users generally eat loads of meat, right?

Even if those guys are on steroids (which I am not convinced off)
The video clearly shows you don’t need to eat meat, if some one is plannng on using animal products and steroids to get big, they can simply switch the animal products for plant based foods, the steoroids arguement is a red herring, because most steroid users are not vegan.

I linked the videos to simply show that you don’t need animal products to get big, you can get the same results from plant based foods, whether you choose to use steroids or not is a side issue, and not related to your food choices.
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As a natural you'd certainly be at a disadvantage from a hormonal perspective not eating Meat. As far as I know Beef is far superior for boosting your natural hormones.
Interestingly you don't see a lot of Vegan Top athletes, sure a few but not the same percentage as in the general population. A vegan athlete's diet is much harder to get right.
More likely to need Roids if a Vegan Bodybuilder too.

When I've trained eating limited Meat for a few years I didn't look great, the lack of animal fats I'm assuming.
 
VC, if wanna check out the limits of a natural Bodybuilder check out Layne Norton. A Man who lives and breathes natural Bodybuilding and Powerlifting, did his PhD on Protein. Probably the most knowledgeable and experienced on the subject.
Compare his condition to anyone else claiming natural.
 
Darc Knight said:
As a natural you'd certainly be at a disadvantage from a hormonal perspective not eating Meat. As far as I know Beef is far superior for boosting your natural hormones.
Interestingly you don't see a lot of Vegan Top athletes, sure a few but not the same percentage as in the general population. A vegan athlete's diet is much harder to get right.
More likely to need Roids if a Vegan Bodybuilder too.

When I've trained eating limited Meat for a few years I didn't look great, the lack of animal fats I'm assuming.
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The only USA weight lifter to qualify in the last olympics was vegan.

I think you should do a bit more research about vegan athletes.

 
Were the protests today reasonable ?

OK in public places but keep off private property I say.

I sympathise with their views but if you annoy people in the process of your protest it's counterproductive imo.
 
SirRumpole said:
Were the protests today reasonable ?

OK in public places but keep off private property I say.

I sympathise with their views but if you annoy people in the process of your protest it's counterproductive imo.
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I haven’t seen anything about the protests.

But as I have mentioned before, we are dealing with living, feeling animals, so minor things like trespass laws are irrelevant when it comes to shining a light on their suffering.

Eg. I think we would all agree laws against trespass and break and enter take a back seat if you are walking into someone’s land to smash a window to save 1 dog from a hot car.

So walking into someone’s land who is abusing animals on a mass scale is not extreme, the abuse is.
 
SirRumpole said:
Isn't that a job for the appropriate authorities ?
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So if there is no one shining a light on these things, how are authorities going to know what happens.

Also, how are laws going to change if people aren’t showing what is happening?

I know a lot of the footage that caused me to become vegan was taken illegally.

Without seeing what was actually happening behind the curtain, I used to believe in the happy cow myths
 
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