Animal rights and ethical food production

[Value Collector]

True. I suppose it's still a small step in the right direction.

I may be dreaming, but it would be great if there was a way to purchase the animal products that are produced in the old fashioned way. There was a time long ago when farm animals were allowed to run around in large open spaces, treated well with kindness right until put down including the slaughter process. Till then I would be a minimalist consumer.

I won’t eat any meat until the day we can grow it in a lab without having to slaughter an animal, there are so many great alternatives these days.

I don’t think there is a humane way to kill some thing that doesn’t want to die.

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If any one is interested in learning about alternatives, the 22 day vegan challenge is a good place to start.

https://challenge22.com/

Or I am happy to chat via PM to any one that needs ideas or tips about how to replace animal products.

When I first decided to go Vegan I thought is would be really hard, But I found a great Vegan community on Face Book and it turned out to be Very easy.

Becoming a vegan is probably the thing that I am most proud of, to me it out weighs all my other achievements including my military service and business achievements, because it’s something I feel is truly the best moral path, and is about helping others, but still requires you to go against the status quo with little or no support from from most other people around you.

 

[SirRumpole]

I won’t eat any meat until the day we can grow it in a lab without having to slaughter an animal, there are so many great alternatives these days.

How about fish ?

 

[Ann]

How about fish ?

That would be a pescatarian, not a vegan to eat fish Rumpy.

I won’t eat any meat until the day we can grow it in a lab without having to slaughter an animal, there are so many great alternatives these days.

Feel free to eat your manufactured, 'naturally' flavoured, enzyme filled, fake foods which your body and immune system won't recognize folks. In the past vegans ate whole foods and were very healthy apart from the lack of the essential Vitamin B12, which is only available from meat or synthetic vitamin supplements. Nowadays as veganism is becoming such high fashion demand foodstuff, the manufacturers are going to be gearing up in conjunction with the supermarkets to bring you an array of faked and tasty looking 'steaks', 'hamburgers', 'schnitzels', 'sausages', 'bacon' 'cheese' even vegan pizza. It will be great, you will be able to congratulate yourself that you are 'saving the animals' by eating 'Frankenfoods', the 'meat' you eat when you are not eating meat. Before you put the first bite into your mouth you need to read a well researched book called 'Swallow This' by Joanna Blythman.

I am going to stay with my home cooked roast chicken, roast potato, baked pumpkin, cauliflower and green beans swathed in organic butter, followed by poached fresh pears and cream tonight. Before I take my first mouthful I will thank the creature who gave up its life so I may live. As far as the emotive chic grinding is concerned, nature has a natural protection, it is called shock. The chics will feel nothing, it is too quick.

 

[Value Collector]

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How about fish ?

For 6 months or so I was eating fish before I went vegan but now I don’t except for some shell fish like mussels occasionally (they don’t have brains, not technically vegan, but Harmless, so I am not a dictionary definition vegan.)

The fishing industries affect on intelligent sea life like dolphins, sharks, turtles etc is huge, and I believe fish can suffer so I avoid them.

 

[Value Collector]

That would be a pescatarian, not a vegan to eat fish Rumpy.



Feel free to eat your manufactured, 'naturally' flavoured, enzyme filled, fake foods which your body and immune system won't recognize folks. In the past vegans ate whole foods and were very healthy apart from the lack of the essential Vitamin B12, which is only available from meat or synthetic vitamin supplements. Nowadays as veganism is becoming such high fashion demand foodstuff, the manufacturers are going to be gearing up in conjunction with the supermarkets to bring you an array of faked and tasty looking 'steaks', 'hamburgers', 'schnitzels', 'sausages', 'bacon' 'cheese' even vegan pizza. It will be great, you will be able to congratulate yourself that you are 'saving the animals' by eating 'Frankenfoods', the 'meat' you eat when you are not eating meat. Before you put the first bite into your mouth you need to read a well researched book called 'Swallow This' by Joanna Blythman.

I am going to stay with my home cooked roast chicken, roast potato, baked pumpkin, cauliflower and green beans swathed in organic butter, followed by poached fresh pears and cream tonight. Before I take my first mouthful I will thank the creature who gave up its life so I may live. As far as the emotive chic grinding is concerned, nature has a natural protection, it is called shock. The chics will feel nothing, it is too quick.

My diet has never been healthier.

That photo I posted above is of a vegan schitzel, which was literally a pattie made of veggies, with spicy bread crumbs, with tomato based sauce and some vegan cheese.

If you think a hormone, antibiotic filled broken body made of saturated fat and cholesterol of a bird that lived in its own **** is healthier, you need your head read.

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Offcourse there is vegan junk food, just like their is animal product Junk food, but so what?

I vegan hamburger isn’t more dangerous than a meat one, if anything it’s healthier.

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The funny thing is the first thing people say about Veganism is “I like pizza and burger to much” so we say “you get get all hat stuff vegan” then they say “oh, that’s not healthy you must just be eating junk”, but they were the ones saying those are the foods they would miss.

 

[aus_trader]

Becoming a vegan is probably the thing that I am most proud of, to me it out weighs all my other achievements including my military service and business achievements, because it’s something I feel is truly the best moral path, and is about helping others, but still requires you to go against the status quo with little or no support from most other people around you.

Bit hard to join this good path at the moment, as you mentioned there is very little support around you from family or friends. But I have decided to go on a minimalist adventure in terms of purchasing food/produce from now on and I believe my family will be supportive of this. We will be growing more of our own fruit and vegetables (already growing some) and I am thinking of having a small chook pen and a worm farm to really push the organic presence in my life.

 

[aus_trader]

I am going to stay with my home cooked roast chicken, roast potato, baked pumpkin, cauliflower and green beans swathed in organic butter, followed by poached fresh pears and cream tonight.

Sounds scrumptious Ann !

 

[Value Collector]

Bit hard to join this good path at the moment, as you mentioned there is very little support around you from family or friends. But I have decided to go on a minimalist adventure in terms of purchasing food/produce from now on and I believe my family will be supportive of this. We will be growing more of our own fruit and vegetables (already growing some) and I am thinking of having a small chook pen and a worm farm to really push the organic presence in my life.

As I said don’t hesitate to shoot me a PM if you want to talk about finding alternatives etc, also there are plenty of awesome face groups etc.

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The bad thing with home chook pens is you still end up having to buy female chooks to stock it, and they had brothers who ended up in the grinder.

To me it’s easier to just avoid eggs.

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Whether it’s factory farm, organic, free range, corn fed etc etc they all generally come from the same hatcheries, and end up in the same slaughter houses.

Don’t let the catch words fool you, that’s just marketing.

Have some avocados on toast instead.

 

[aus_trader]

As I said don’t hesitate to shoot me a PM if you want to talk about finding alternatives etc, also there are plenty of awesome face groups etc.

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The bad thing with home chook pens is you still end up having to buy female chooks to stock it, and they had brothers who ended up in the grinder.

To me it’s easier to just avoid eggs.

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Whether it’s factory farm, organic, free range, corn fed etc etc they all generally come from the same hatcheries, and end up in the same slaughter houses.

Don’t let the catch words fool you, that’s just marketing.

Have some avocados on toast instead.

Love avocado on toast !

I know someone who has a nice chook pen that has only hens from what I remember, but still produces eggs (organically from feeding kitchen scraps and seeds). Have to find out a bit more about it...

 

[Value Collector]

Love avocado on toast !

I know someone who has a nice chook pen that has only hens from what I remember, but still produces eggs (organically from feeding kitchen scraps and seeds). Have to find out a bit more about it...

So my first question would be “where did they get the hens?”

If they bought they from a produce store or some other commercial supplier of laying hens, then they most certainly came from a supplier that kills all the males.

My wife’s aunty keeps a load of hens, and she asked me whether I would eat some of her eggs because her hens are “happy”.

My answer was simply that if she had extra I would rather her fed them to some one who wasn’t vegan, so that they could offset eggs that person might buy any way, because I am happy with my avocados or hummus.

I also said that if she absolutely had eggs to waste, I would feed them to my dog to offset non vegan dog food she would other wise be eating, and that maybe if she is over producing she should buy less hens from the hatchery.

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Also removing eggs from the hens every day stimulates them to lay more, which puts more stress on their body.

 

[So_Cynical]

We owe so much to the humble chicken yet treat them so badly..

 

[aus_trader]

We owe so much to the humble chicken yet treat them so badly..

humble cow too: milk, cheese, butter, yogurt, gelatin, leather (cow hide) and beef. Even whey protein used for bulking up the body builders !

 

[So_Cynical]

If you have a grill’d burger shop near you, go and try the “beyond simply grilled burger”.

I have lunch at a grill’d occasionally - so i have a choice now between a fake $10 gourmet burger or a $10 real meat gourmet burger, no choice really - im going for the real thing.

 

[Ann]

I have lunch at a grill’d occasionally - so i have a choice now between a fake $10 gourmet burger or a $10 real meat gourmet burger, no choice really - im going for the real thing.

...but nooooo! Think about the planet, you will be responsible for the planet burning to a crisp because all of those farting cows! However, if one slaughters the beast, he is unlikely to fart!
Ergo carnivores are saving the planet from farting cows!

 

[Value Collector]

I have lunch at a grill’d occasionally - so i have a choice now between a fake $10 gourmet burger or a $10 real meat gourmet burger, no choice really - im going for the real thing.

I go the other way eg. If it’s the same price, and same enjoyment for me, I take the option that doesn’t require an animal to enter a slaughterhouse.

I don’t see moving to plant based meats as trading down, I see it as trading up. To me it’s a superior product.

If you are accepting a minced animal patty for the same price of $10, you are accepting an inferior cheaper product.

 

[Value Collector]

.However, if one slaughters the beast, he is unlikely to fart!
Ergo carnivores are saving the planet from farting cows!

I understand your response is sarcastic, as you would realize that the warehouses full of unhappy animals turning truckloads of grain into methane wouldn’t exist in the first place unless people are paying to buy their dead bodies.

So you aren’t solving the problem by purchasing meat, you are helping fund it.

 

[Value Collector]

I dont doubt there will be some initial growth in a new product like this, but how sustainable is that growth? Its just a type of pattie, the margins will get squeezed as there is no barrier to entry and the % of the population who are vegan/vegetarian is still tiny.

Regardless, once the hype is removed these businesses are just commodity food producers which has not historically been a particularly high margin sector nor has it generally had much enduring competitive advantage.

On the other hand one can look at the craziness of milk companies performance in the share market and I guess that suggests anything is possible!

It’s been growing for 9 years, so it’s far from a fad.

Also 93% of the people buying he burgers are not vegan, there is a growing base of people looking to reduce meat consumption that aren’t vegan or vegetarian.

 

[galumay]

It’s been growing for 9 years, so it’s far from a fad.

That sort of indicates just how slow the growth has been!

Also 93% of the people buying he burgers are not vegan, there is a growing base of people looking to reduce meat consumption that aren’t vegan or vegetarian.

That sounds awfully like a fad if true, and still leaves us with the reality that once you remove the fad & hype its just secondary food production, low margin, no enduring competitive advantage.

I just cant see fake meat companies being wealth creators for investors in the medium to long term, that doesnt mean there wont be more fake meat sold to fast food chains and supermarkets.

I get that you might like the product, and even hold some personal ethics that align with eating fake meat, or a personal dietary belief that less animal protein is more healthy, but as an investor none of that should inform your decision about the quality of an investment.

ps I just realised we are having this discussion in the Ingram's thread so we are about as far off topic as we could get, I see you have a thread started on the fake meat company so I will follow up any further discussion there.

 

[Value Collector]

That sort of indicates just how slow the growth has been!



That sounds awfully like a fad if true, and still leaves us with the reality that once you remove the fad & hype its just secondary food production, low margin, no enduring competitive advantage.

I just cant see fake meat companies being wealth creators for investors in the medium to long term, that doesnt mean there wont be more fake meat sold to fast food chains and supermarkets.

I get that you might like the product, and even hold some personal ethics that align with eating fake meat, or a personal dietary belief that less animal protein is more healthy, but as an investor none of that should inform your decision about the quality of an investment.

ps I just realised we are having this discussion in the Ingram's thread so we are about as far off topic as we could get, I see you have a thread started on the fake meat company so I will follow up any further discussion there.

I wouldn’t call growing sales from $0 to over $100 Million in 9 years slow growth.

Time will tell, but I think you have under estimated the growing trend towards alternatives.

 

[aus_trader]

...but nooooo! Think about the planet, you will be responsible for the planet burning to a crisp because all of those farting cows! However, if one slaughters the beast, he is unlikely to fart!
Ergo carnivores are saving the planet from farting cows!

Expected this from So_Cynical perhaps but not you Ann, but cynically funny !
I guess if the animal is treated well in life and put to rest without torture it's all good. I'm thinking a way to put it down in a fraction of a second with a blade like laser beam (to be invented in the future). Even better if we could copy the green alien laser beam used by 'The Predator' (see movie with Arnie) which cauterises the wound as it cuts through flesh, so there is no blood spill.