America a Failed State and a Rogue State to the rest of the World

[Joe90]

You'd have to think the US is ripe for civil war/revolution if the under privileged were to suddenly become aware of the crap hand their elite are dealing them, organise themselves, and revolt.

 

[ducati916]

1. Also sadly broke ...

2. I better trade in my multiple masters degrees and 38 years in finance ....



3. Fed buys bonds .... fed buys bonds with paper it issues .... its effect is to drive down bond prices and influence the longer end of the yield curve.

4. So Fed buys IBM bond and gives a piece of paper equal value for that ... bond. Same thing .... one is a debit ... one is a credit ...yes it looks as though the money supply has expanded ... so too has debits and credits all over the place depending on what your looking at .... but the SUM total is ZERO .... one goes up .... one goes down ... US fed holding of bonds goes UP .... US fed issue of notes or promises to pay others goes up .... one is an asset on the feds books and the other a liability.

1. Not a relevant argument.

2.. Arguing a logical fallacy: the 'white coat syndrome'. Irrelevant and without merit.

3. Incorrect. Fed does not buy bonds by issuing 'paper'. The Fed creates a 'reserve account'.

4. This is a more nuanced point: up until the COVID issue arose, the Fed would never deal directly with other than the prime dealers: JPM, etc. The Fed are buying everything (or as near dammit) but they still deal through the prime dealers. IBM however will get cash. This is because IBM want to pay their employees/dividends/whatever.

I note that you have avoided addressing the evidence, namely:



The currency component of M1, sometimes called "money stock currency," is defined as currency in circulation outside the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve Banks. Data on total currency in circulation are obtained weekly from balance sheets of the Federal Reserve Banks and from the U.S. Treasury. Weekly currency in circulation data are published each week on the Federal Reserve Board's H.4.1 statistical release "Factors Affecting Reserve Balances of Depository Institutions and Condition Statement of Federal Reserve Banks." Vault cash is reported on the FR 2900 and subtracted from total currency in circulation. For institutions that do not file the FR 2900, vault cash is estimated using data reported on the Call Reports.



jog on
duc

 

[ducati916]

1. Anyone can go and listen to last weeks MacroVoices interview with Dr Lacy Hunt (one of the worlds most successful bond investors and storied economists) to understand this.

2. Or people can continue to just play along with the Central Bank perception management game, they want you to think they are printing, because they are completely and utterly neutered in their ability to operate in the modern financial world where "money" is actually bank balance sheet capacity to generate offshore funding in Eurodollars.

3. Dr Hunt describes it very aptly as a duration swap. The Fed takes a long duration asset onto its balance sheet and places a very short duration asset (bank reserve) onto the balance sheet of a commercial bank.

4. Anyone can go and read Jeffrey Sniders blog on the Alhambra Partners website, or listen to his many podcast interviews on MacroVoices, to understand that not only is it a duration swap, but it is a duration swap where the commercial bank gets an essentially inert and useless asset that they can't even really loan against, because the Fed and other CBs have no idea how the modern financial system operates.

1. If you provide the link, I will listen.

2. Eurodollars is a separate (although related) subject to the one initially raised.

3. This corrects the inaccurate assertion made by Mr Kahuna. A bank reserve on a commercial bank's Balance Sheet however is not 'inert' (see argument in [4]). Commercial banks can most certainly issue loans against this 'asset'. This is commonly referred to as the 'money multiplier'. Whether they choose to do so, is however, quite another matter.

4. I have read some of his articles. While (in general) I do not disagree with what he has to say, he is unfortunately such a poor writer (my opinion) he becomes tedious to read.

jog on
duc

 

[kahuna1]

The Fed creates a 'reserve account'

Really ? Piece of paper ... or an account ... same thing.

This corrects the inaccurate assertion made by Mr Kahuna.

Are you serious ?

Ignore me, as you should. Google those PHD's and professors. Boring or not. They are however experts and you ... are refuting them.

Actually stupidly disputing even a basic accounting to postulate your pet theory ?
Debit ... credit .... piece of paper ... or accounting entry in account ? Your stupid theory seems to forget the repurchases ... which any federal reserve does and they are NOT accounting entries they are REPO's and have dates on them with maturities. But you know best ... I must have imagined the central bank doing repos ... or reverse repos as needed to adjust liquidity every day. So too ... everyone with even a basic knowledge of market operations of central banks.

No we all have keycard accounts ... even if they did ... same thing ... you walk into a bank with cash ... they put an entry into your account. Clearly you dont even understand the basics of accounting. Whether its a piece of paper or something recorded electronically, to colloquially refer to it as a piece of paper and many do actually get receipts when depositing .... and then have some person dispute it.

Far out.

You sadly are beyond help. This is not a white coat argument ... its meat and potatoes ... so anyone even those with less familiarity with it can understand. To be, told its white coat .... when I took the time to explain, well ... a logical fallicy ? Faulty reasoning ?

Possibly in your world. Everything is faulty. Even PHD's and simple accounting does not exist. Google does not exist and you cant even Google the names kindly provided because it may pop your delusional bubble ?

How this works is neither an opinion or something even a person with basic knowledge fails to understand. That even basic undeniable accounting and processes do not exist, in your universe, possibly you could explain how a deposit or bond repo or swap works in your universe ? Please include accounting entries as I have ... debits and credits. Or bits of paper promises to pay ... such as I have. ... its what they are whether electronic or ... well even cash notes.

We are all ears ? Please dazzle us !!

 

[tech/a]

Really ? Piece of paper ... or an account ... same thing.



Are you serious ?

Ignore me, as you should. Google those PHD's and professors. Boring or not. They are however experts and you ... are refuting them.

Actually stupidly disputing even a basic accounting to postulate your pet theory ?
Debit ... credit .... piece of paper ... or accounting entry in account ? Your stupid theory seems to forget the repurchases ... which any federal reserve does and they are NOT accounting entries they are REPO's and have dates on them with maturities. But you know best ... I must have imagined the central bank doing repos ... or reverse repos as needed to adjust liquidity every day. So too ... everyone with even a basic knowledge of market operations of central banks.

No we all have keycard accounts ... even if they did ... same thing ... you walk into a bank with cash ... they put an entry into your account. Clearly you dont even understand the basics of accounting. Whether its a piece of paper or something recorded electronically, to colloquially refer to it as a piece of paper and many do actually get receipts when depositing .... and then have some person dispute it.

Far out.

You sadly are beyond help. This is not a white coat argument ... its meat and potatoes ... so anyone even those with less familiarity with it can understand. To be, told its white coat .... when I took the time to explain, well ... a logical fallicy ? Faulty reasoning ?

Possibly in your world. Everything is faulty. Even PHD's and simple accounting does not exist. Google does not exist and you cant even Google the names kindly provided because it may pop your delusional bubble ?

How this works is neither an opinion or something even a person with basic knowledge fails to understand. That even basic undeniable accounting and processes do not exist, in your universe, possibly you could explain how a deposit or bond repo or swap works in your universe ? Please include accounting entries as I have ... debits and credits. Or bits of paper promises to pay ... such as I have. ... its what they are whether electronic or ... well even cash notes.

We are all ears ? Please dazzle us !!

I just love restrained anger in Debate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTmWIXyhN8Q&feature=share

carry on

 

[kahuna1]

I just love restrained anger in Debate

More disbelief would be more accurate.

Not about to go round and round on this topic, or others. When one gets to the quick of their beliefs, and I have taken the time over the years to try and understand people who refute a sceintific irrefutable fact and deny any and all scientific clinical facts, ones finds when you ask even the basics, they dispute and refute any and all of them.

Not sure what part of debits and credits ... is missing ... or what pet theory about the world this issue hinges upon for the gentleman. Its no different than cash ... deposit into bank ... you get the debit and empty wallet and credit is the increase in your account balance and yep ... maybe a receipt. Banks books ... a credit for cash held ... a debit for the liability of the customers deposit.

Same for a central bank ... buying a bond ... whether via repo of fixed time frame and ... or a credit in the deposit account they hold ... you surrender the bond at a fixed agreed value ... times-frame and duration and either get a credit in your account or a piece of paper ... a promise to pay which you then can go out and trade time and time again until it matures and then the central bank repays it with a credit to your account ... or cash ...

I am awaiting the gents explanation for the way things work in the alternate universe with great anticipation and barely concealed humor at what will be likely a fascinating journey into his world.

Shared my own, factual not opinion. Its how it works, always has for the past 4,000 years. Debits credits, promises to pay and so on.

Many things I say are opinion, open and welcome to debate and differing views.

Accounting ... debits and credits is ...not something that is an opinion

 

[ducati916]

1. Really ? Piece of paper ... or an account ... same thing.





2. Ignore me, as you should. Google those PHD's and professors. Boring or not. They are however experts and you ... are refuting them.

3. Actually stupidly disputing even a basic accounting to postulate your pet theory ?
Debit ... credit .... piece of paper ... or accounting entry in account ? Your stupid theory seems to forget the repurchases ... which any federal reserve does and they are NOT accounting entries they are REPO's and have dates on them with maturities. But you know best ... I must have imagined the central bank doing repos ... or reverse repos as needed to adjust liquidity every day. So too ... everyone with even a basic knowledge of market operations of central banks.

4. No we all have keycard accounts ... even if they did ... same thing ... you walk into a bank with cash ... they put an entry into your account. Clearly you dont even understand the basics of accounting. Whether its a piece of paper or something recorded electronically, to colloquially refer to it as a piece of paper and many do actually get receipts when depositing .... and then have some person dispute it.



5. You sadly are beyond help. This is not a white coat argument ... its meat and potatoes ... so anyone even those with less familiarity with it can understand. To be, told its white coat .... when I took the time to explain, well ... a logical fallicy ? Faulty reasoning ?

6. Possibly in your world. Everything is faulty. Even PHD's and simple accounting does not exist. Google does not exist and you cant even Google the names kindly provided because it may pop your delusional bubble ?

7. How this works is neither an opinion or something even a person with basic knowledge fails to understand. That even basic undeniable accounting and processes do not exist, in your universe, possibly you could explain how a deposit or bond repo or swap works in your universe ? Please include accounting entries as I have ... debits and credits. Or bits of paper promises to pay ... such as I have. ... its what they are whether electronic or ... well even cash notes.

9. We are all ears ? Please dazzle us !!

The question at issue is clear:



Which was in response to this:



The issue is clouded somewhat by imprecise terminology: viz. 'printing'. Printing is commonly referred to as a credit expansion, whereby 'money' is created out of thin air. However if we take the narrower meaning of 'money' to mean actual currency that you or I could use, which is M1 money, defined as:

The currency component of M1, sometimes called "money stock currency," is defined as currency in circulation outside the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve Banks. Data on total currency in circulation are obtained weekly from balance sheets of the Federal Reserve Banks and from the U.S. Treasury. Weekly currency in circulation data are published each week on the Federal Reserve Board's H.4.1 statistical release "Factors Affecting Reserve Balances of Depository Institutions and Condition Statement of Federal Reserve Banks." Vault cash is reported on the FR 2900 and subtracted from total currency in circulation. For institutions that do not file the FR 2900, vault cash is estimated using data reported on the Call Reports.

Evidence Exhibit A



We see that 'money' as defined has jumped by (almost) $1000B (or $1T).

Evidence Exhibit B.



On a weekly basis, from 15 April 2020 to 22 April 2020 currency has increased +$5,971M.

That is the type of money the man in the street understands. If we include M2 expansion:

Evidence Exhibit C



We see an expansion of (almost) $2T, defined as:

M2 includes a broader set of financial assets held principally by households. M2 consists of M1 plus: (1) savings deposits (which include money market deposit accounts, or MMDAs); (2) small-denomination time deposits (time deposits in amounts of less than $100,000); and (3) balances in retail money market mutual funds (MMMFs). Seasonally adjusted M2 is computed by summing savings deposits, small-denomination time deposits, and retail MMMFs, each seasonally adjusted separately, and adding this result to seasonally adjusted M1.

So now to your objections:

1. How was your 'piece of paper' defined? It was defined in the following manner:

"Fed buys bonds .... fed buys bonds with paper it issues .... its effect is to drive down bond prices and influence the longer end of the yield curve."

Incorrect. The Fed credits the account of the Primary Dealer, who is selling out of held inventory. I could be generous and say I knew what you meant, but after your boast of 28 years in finance and Masters Degree etc, why should I? Had you been somewhat more polite to Mr Sadjii, possibly I would have accepted your error.

2. I see no names of PhD's, references that can be checked, etc. Currently a vacuous argument.

3. Putting aside your rudeness: how does any of that actually address the issue at hand? It would seem to be simply verbiage without a coherent point.

4. Already addressed (see [1] above).

5. The 'White Coat' refers to your claim of 28yrs in finance, Masters Degree, etc. It is a logical fallacy because it advances no premise other than: I am an expert, therefore accept what I say without question.

6. I have on 3 occasions provided you with evidence from the Fed. itself. You have declined to comment on or refute that evidence. Rather, you would rather berate me and insult me, as if that forms a coherent argument. It does not.

7. Indeed. If you notice, the only 'opinion' appearing ad nauseum, is your opinion. I have presented you with documentary evidence from a bank in the Federal Reserve system. It is not my opinion. It is fact.

Conclusion:

Mr Sadjii is correct. The US could 'print' (create out of thin air) enough 'money' to pay off all Federal debt. I also agree that this would not be perceived as a popular undertaking by the rest of the world.

jog on
duc

 

[kahuna1]

Thank you for a view inside your universe.

I would again suggest googling the names of professors and learning what occurs verses your, well, beliefs.

The rest, who or what I am, opinions vary. It is irrelevant and debating an accounting credit verses a receipt or security is an astounding position to assert with any conviction.

With a clearly displayed lack of even a basic understating of accounting or open market operations of any central bank, sourcing rubbish to support your understanding, is quaint and well, something I will be unable to clearly correct or convince your tightly held beliefs.

Again I urge you to Google the names as suggested and learn what your postulating about. A very imprecise view missing ... the other side of the transactions. The Holdings of Bonds and others via the USA fed and so on. One debit .... ONE credit ... you seem to be unable to understand this simple concept. USA Fed bond holdings pre GFC went from I think under 1 trillion to over 4 trillion. This being the other side to the equation and your, well ... perception of reality .....

If you find it insulting, my not accepting your reality or version of it, so be it.
I was polite, if I was not, I am sorry you feel that way.

Thank you for sharing your opinion about this topic.

I did feel it important to correct factually what the conspiracy theory about printing money involves, apologies that this offended your opinions and beliefs.

The names ... you claim were not Dr's were provided by the earlier gent ...

Dr Lacy Hunt (one of the worlds most successful bond investors and storied economists) to understand this.

Also suggested was ...

Anyone can go and read Jeffrey Sniders blog on the Alhambra Partners website, or listen to his many podcast interviews on MacroVoices, to understand that not only is it a duration swap, but it is a duration swap where the commercial bank gets an essentially inert and useless asset that they can't even really loan against, because the Fed and other CBs have no idea how the modern financial system operates.

BE afraid ... they actually may also upset your perceptions.

 

[rederob]

The question at issue is clear:

View attachment 103287

Which was in response to this:

View attachment 103288

The issue is clouded somewhat by imprecise terminology: viz. 'printing'. Printing is commonly referred to as a credit expansion, whereby 'money' is created out of thin air. However if we take the narrower meaning of 'money' to mean actual currency that you or I could use, which is M1 money, defined as:

The currency component of M1, sometimes called "money stock currency," is defined as currency in circulation outside the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve Banks. Data on total currency in circulation are obtained weekly from balance sheets of the Federal Reserve Banks and from the U.S. Treasury. Weekly currency in circulation data are published each week on the Federal Reserve Board's H.4.1 statistical release "Factors Affecting Reserve Balances of Depository Institutions and Condition Statement of Federal Reserve Banks." Vault cash is reported on the FR 2900 and subtracted from total currency in circulation. For institutions that do not file the FR 2900, vault cash is estimated using data reported on the Call Reports.

Evidence Exhibit A

View attachment 103289

We see that 'money' as defined has jumped by (almost) $1000B (or $1T).

Evidence Exhibit B.

View attachment 103290

On a weekly basis, from 15 April 2020 to 22 April 2020 currency has increased +$5,971M.

That is the type of money the man in the street understands. If we include M2 expansion:

Evidence Exhibit C

View attachment 103291

We see an expansion of (almost) $2T, defined as:

M2 includes a broader set of financial assets held principally by households. M2 consists of M1 plus: (1) savings deposits (which include money market deposit accounts, or MMDAs); (2) small-denomination time deposits (time deposits in amounts of less than $100,000); and (3) balances in retail money market mutual funds (MMMFs). Seasonally adjusted M2 is computed by summing savings deposits, small-denomination time deposits, and retail MMMFs, each seasonally adjusted separately, and adding this result to seasonally adjusted M1.

So now to your objections:

1. How was your 'piece of paper' defined? It was defined in the following manner:

"Fed buys bonds .... fed buys bonds with paper it issues .... its effect is to drive down bond prices and influence the longer end of the yield curve."

Incorrect. The Fed credits the account of the Primary Dealer, who is selling out of held inventory. I could be generous and say I knew what you meant, but after your boast of 28 years in finance and Masters Degree etc, why should I? Had you been somewhat more polite to Mr Sadjii, possibly I would have accepted your error.

2. I see no names of PhD's, references that can be checked, etc. Currently a vacuous argument.

3. Putting aside your rudeness: how does any of that actually address the issue at hand? It would seem to be simply verbiage without a coherent point.

4. Already addressed (see [1] above).

5. The 'White Coat' refers to your claim of 28yrs in finance, Masters Degree, etc. It is a logical fallacy because it advances no premise other than: I am an expert, therefore accept what I say without question.

6. I have on 3 occasions provided you with evidence from the Fed. itself. You have declined to comment on or refute that evidence. Rather, you would rather berate me and insult me, as if that forms a coherent argument. It does not.

7. Indeed. If you notice, the only 'opinion' appearing ad nauseum, is your opinion. I have presented you with documentary evidence from a bank in the Federal Reserve system. It is not my opinion. It is fact.

Conclusion:

Mr Sadjii is correct. The US could 'print' (create out of thin air) enough 'money' to pay off all Federal debt. I also agree that this would not be perceived as a popular undertaking by the rest of the world.

jog on
duc

Fiat currencies have a net value of zero.
Sovereign nations cannot go broke because they can create "money" as they see fit.
@ducati should have used money in physical circulation to make his point, rather than M1 and M2 constructs, as they just muddy these waters.
MMT only begins to unravel when foreign transactions come into play and the "value" of printed money is brought to account.
In between the above, sovereign nations can do what they like and suffer the consequences.
For example, our government has just created, on paper, a massive accounting debt. Nobody lent Australia the "money" that will be paying out on JobKeeper, JobSeeker and a myriad of other programs.
Coalition governments like to hang their hat on being good "money managers" but finance experts know this is a spurious claim.
I don't always agree with @kahuna1's wording but he's one of the smartest posters at this site.

 

[SirRumpole]

Sovereign nations cannot go broke because they can create "money" as they see fit.

So hat happened to Greece when it couldn't pay it's debts ?

 

[rederob]

So hat happened to Greece when it couldn't pay it's debts ?

Greece uses Euro.
Have a look at Argentina. This update is behind a paywall.

 

[kahuna1]

Here is a simple video ...
Its on just some of it ... via not one but two Professors. A professor is many levels above a PHD. Lets not debate that .. please .... life is too short.


Repos ... reverse repos ... outright purchases of treasuries .... or not govt ones but other bonds ...

All similar and work the same way. Not printing money as such, yes changing the money supply ... supporting long bond prices, duration swaps and illegal credit swaps where the USA fed swaps top tier assets for crappy non goverment bonds and in effect drives down the cost of the loan ... via its actions and well ... their CV19 Fed response is astounding. Swapping with virtually no oversight ... goverment bonds and backing to support things such as Casino debt or oil industry debt.

In a correct credit rating world the USA should be about 10 tiers lower rated than it is at about CC ...




two Professors. Not me .... not my opinion ... which is an aside.

Hope it helps other understand why, well ... Houston we have a problem .... not about printing money, more so that the USA federal reserve now is like Drexals and the junk bond kings, let alone the Fiscal side of the USA which is now run by a game show host who has gone bankrupt 6 times.

Of course maybe this will not help clear the understanding gap.

USA just hit 77,000 deaths today and near 30,000 NEW reported cases.

So astounded and ashamed for USA that 47 States now are going back to work and some totally back open.

 

[ducati916]

1. Thank you for a view inside your universe.

2. I would again suggest googling the names of professors and learning what occurs verses your, well, beliefs.

3. The rest, who or what I am, opinions vary. It is irrelevant and debating an accounting credit verses a receipt or security is an astounding position to assert with any conviction.

4. With a clearly displayed lack of even a basic understating of accounting or open market operations of any central bank, sourcing rubbish to support your understanding, is quaint and well, something I will be unable to clearly correct or convince your tightly held beliefs.

5. Again I urge you to Google the names as suggested and learn what your postulating about. A very imprecise view missing ... the other side of the transactions. The Holdings of Bonds and others via the USA fed and so on. One debit .... ONE credit ... you seem to be unable to understand this simple concept. USA Fed bond holdings pre GFC went from I think under 1 trillion to over 4 trillion. This being the other side to the equation and your, well ... perception of reality .....

6. If you find it insulting, my not accepting your reality or version of it, so be it.
I was polite, if I was not, I am sorry you feel that way.

7. Thank you for sharing your opinion about this topic.

8. I did feel it important to correct factually what the conspiracy theory about printing money involves, apologies that this offended your opinions and beliefs.

9. The names ... you claim were not Dr's were provided by the earlier gent ...

10. Dr Lacy Hunt (one of the worlds most successful bond investors and storied economists) to understand this.

Also suggested was ...

11. Anyone can go and read Jeffrey Sniders blog on the Alhambra Partners website, or listen to his many podcast interviews on MacroVoices, to understand that not only is it a duration swap, but it is a duration swap where the commercial bank gets an essentially inert and useless asset that they can't even really loan against, because the Fed and other CBs have no idea how the modern financial system operates.

BE afraid ... they actually may also upset your perceptions.

1. Not my universe. The evidence is from the St Louis Federal Reserve Bank.

2. The evidence is provided. That is my argument. Use whatever/whomever you wish to refute it.

3. Irrelevant to the identified issue.

4. Simply more of your self-inflated opinion. How about an argument supported by some evidence?

5. I have stated my position. I have provided you with the evidence. Disprove my position with argument and evidence.

6. The evidence comes from the Fed and yes, you are a very rude chap.

7. Not my opinion. Facts from the Federal Reserve.

8. You haven't corrected anything. In fact you have gone to great pains to avoid addressing the issue at all.

9/10/11. Yes I saw Mr Investoboy's recommendations. Again, provide any argument you wish to refute my argument and evidence. Simply suggesting that I go and dig for your argument for you, is not an argument old chap.

jog on
duc

 

[kahuna1]

Simply more of your self-inflated opinion.

I did provide two professors as opposed to my views or dismissed shared explanations as to how these transactions work. That theirs was identical, You dismissed them, myself and wish to well ... debate ... or refute ...

Possibly this would be more apt ?



I accept your views, opinions and universe.

Hmm log ? Of not ?

Hold your breath and I will get back to you !!

 

[ducati916]

1. Here is a simple video ...
Its on just some of it ... via not one but two Professors. A professor is many levels above a PHD. Lets not debate that .. please .... life is too short.


2. Repos ... reverse repos ... outright purchases of treasuries .... or not govt ones but other bonds ...

3. All similar and work the same way. Not printing money as such, yes changing the money supply ... supporting long bond prices, duration swaps and illegal credit swaps where the USA fed swaps top tier assets for crappy non goverment bonds and in effect drives down the cost of the loan ... via its actions and well ... their CV19 Fed response is astounding. Swapping with virtually no oversight ... goverment bonds and backing to support things such as Casino debt or oil industry debt.

4. In a correct credit rating world the USA should be about 10 tiers lower rated than it is at about CC ...




two Professors. Not me .... not my opinion ... which is an aside.

5. Hope it helps other understand why, well ... Houston we have a problem .... not about printing money, more so that the USA federal reserve now is like Drexals and the junk bond kings, let alone the Fiscal side of the USA which is now run by a game show host who has gone bankrupt 6 times.

6. Of course maybe this will not help clear the understanding gap.

1. Yet another 'White Coat' argument.

2. This is supposed to be an argument? No premise, no conclusion?

3. This video was made to explain the 2008/2009 interventions. While it may have relevance to the current situation, you have not utilised it as an argument or evidence to support whatever argument you are struggling to put forward.

If you go to 1.07-1.12 of your video, you will hear:

"Fed swaps money for assets"

At 2.54-2.59

"Boosting loans"

The context is: commercial banks could (assuming they could find creditworthy customers) increase the money supply through a credit expansion.

Explain how that is not credit expansion of M1 or M2?

4. In your opinion. Relevance to current discussion? Zero.

5. Again, vacuous narrative, absent any argument or evidence that pertains to the issue.

6. Clearly it hasn't helped your argument.

jog on
duc

 

[kahuna1]

Log ? Or not a log ?

Sadly your still trying to decide.

The process and how these Repos or outright purchases work ... is identical to 2009 GFC actions and even normal everyday REPO ...

Hmmm ... log ... of not ? Watch it again ... gave the links for possible learning, or expansion of your universe and understanding.

 

[Sdajii]

UK has done if anything worse.

30,000 deaths ... so without modelling ... say 50k by June 2020 .... 100 k by end of 2020 ?

Herd immunity looks likely a myth with the new strain ... you get NO immunity or partial ... at best.

USA and UK look equally stupid. Strange the convict colony seems to be doing well.

If it's true that herd immunity can't work because you get no effective immunity, a vaccine will never be possible anyway, so we might as well get moving and stop sitting around waiting for a vaccine which will never come. If the virus itself does not induce immunity, no vaccine ever can (which is entirely likely).

The convict colony seems to be doing well because we're digging ourselves into debt to allow people to sit around doing nothing. We're going to be paying for it later with a screwed economy and disrupted business structure which will in the long term cause more harm than the virus would have.

*Cue one of Kahuna's 73 page emotional word salad rants

 

[kahuna1]

If it's true that herd immunity can't work because you get no effective immunity, a vaccine will never be possible anyway, so we might as well get moving and stop sitting around waiting for a vaccine which will never come. If the virus itself does not induce immunity, no vaccine ever can (which is entirely likely).

Unknown .... its a new virus. IT is possible and until one knows, sacrificing yourself if that's your thing, your welcome.

*Cue one of Kahuna's 73 page emotional word salad rants

So sorry to hear you lost everything. Don't be bitter, it will not help you recover.Possibly the first quote and you need to get help ? Depressed ?

Take care

 

[Sdajii]

Unknown .... its a new virus. IT is possible and until one knows, sacrificing yourself if that's your thing, your welcome.

If the virus fully infecting the respiratory system doesn't cause an immune response, a vaccine can't. This may or may not be the case, but if the virus itself doesn't cause immunity, a vaccine definitely can't. Many viruses can't have vaccines made for them, no matter what level of medical technology we have or how much money and research we put in. Where's the HIV vaccine? They've been trying to make coronavirus vaccines since decades before I went to university and studied microbiology or earned my major in genetics, but it has never been successful. If it's possible to make a vaccine for this one, it definitely means having had the virus will give immunity.

So sorry to hear you lost everything. Don't be bitter, it will not help you recover.Possibly the first quote and you need to get help ? Depressed ?

Meow! You're quite the passive aggressive little creature, aren't you? You're hardly one to be calling anyone else bitter! It was definitely a challenge to lose everything and be trapped in a place I didn't want to be in, but that was a couple of months ago, I've picked up some work and projects I'm getting stuck into and things are rapidly turning around. When you get down to zero the only way to go is up, and that tends to be a pretty invigorating experience if you have a fundamentally positive mindset.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I'm lost.

What are @kahuna1 and @ducati916 arguing about.

gg