Al Qaeda

[wayneL]

Wayne,
honestly now I know what ,<deleted> was saying about you ,if you are going to quote me,do it by showing why I was saying what I was saying,you know show yours and mine.

This seems abit one sided.But if it makes you feel better ,good.I`m happy.

Althought seeing that the law has been used effectively and we know about it because we read about it,it seems that yourfears are unfounded.Then again like I said maybe you have something to fear unlike myself.
Now Wayne I`m going to ignore you because your theories are absurd ,yes thatsa personal opinion,unlike you I dont hide behind words that I hope other people wont understand.
Have a good day,sir,will you have chips with that.

LOL, Now I'm a bum for using the english language!!! That's the first time I've been insulted for that! What does that say about you?

Your insults are merely insults not supported by anything in fact and hence is just peurile name-calling. In light of the lack of any rational arguement from you, I do believe you have been hoisted by your own petard.

Now you want to extract yourself from the debate because facts which you are not able to furnish have been called for. LOL

BTW petard - old french for "bomb".

 

[rederob]

Wayne
I am reporting that your "unfair" reference to including another poster. which you edited out of visual's post, was subsequently added by you in your reply to visual.
The pots are getting blacker!

 

[wayneL]

Wayne
I am reporting that your "unfair" reference to including another poster. which you edited out of visual's post, was subsequently added by you in your reply to visual.
The pots are getting blacker!

oops better get the scrubbing brush out then

...and just to clarify, that was in regard for the poster mentioned. No other reason.

 

[visual]

Visual,

Your arguments lack clarity and balance. There is a quotable quote regarding situations such as this, which, for fear of likewise resorting to the ad hominem level, I will refrain from posting.

I could introduce, more of my argument here. But I don't think ASF is necessarily the place for it. Happy to take it private, or a more appropriate forum.

Cheers

Wayne,you were going to get out of this argument ,as you thought that it was not an appropiate argument to have on ASF.Now you accuse me of running scared.

And as for you explaining petard,what made you think I didnt know what it meant ,and I do know how to use a dictonary if I dont know,as in Ad hominen,
this started as a tongue in cheek post,you then went on about your delirious fears about the government and so on,I dont agree with you,I will not waste my time following kooky theories and as I`m not likely to ever be a terorrist I`m not going to notice these so called changes the government is bringing in to control us all.
Relax man ,smoke a bit of weed, I hear its very relaxing or have you already indulged and hence the allucinations and paranoia.
Go Georgie,Go Johnnie,Go Tony,ect...

Now Wayne if you were truly scared about the changes the government is bringing in what are you doing about it,have you spoken to your local member,have you tried protesting these changes,oh hang on you cant because then they`l take you away never to be seen again,ok then how about running for parliament,or presenting a private bill ,I`m not sure how that works but I believe that you can do that,by getting in contact with the politician representing your seat,hang on that will bring you to the attention of asio,gee sorry run out of ideas better consult someone from your other forum,I`m sure they`ll be able to help you.

Notice Wayne unlike you I`m actually finding this thread funny,maybe its because i`m not scared and have nothing to hide.

P.S what facts are your referring to,when did you call for facts,are you referring to the laws that are going to imprison us all,well how I`m I supposed to get those,remember the government is doing this secretly.But I read the paper daily and see how the laws that scare you so witless report these things ,anyway go to go Wayne,Asio just called they want a report.

 

[wayneL]

Wayne,you were going to get out of this argument ,as you thought that it was not an appropiate argument to have on ASF.

And as for you explaining petard,what made you think I didnt know what it meant ,and I do know how to use a dictonary if I dont know,as in Ad hominen,
this started as a tongue in cheek post,you then went on about your delirious fears about the government and so on,I dont agree with you,I will not waste my time following kooky theories and as I`m not likely to ever be a terorrist I`m not going to notice these so called changes the government is bringing in to control us all.
Relax man ,smoke a bit of weed, I hear its very relaxing or have you already indulged and hence the allucinations and paranoia.
Go Georgie,Go Johnnie,Go Tony,ect...

Now Wayne if you were truly scared about the changes the government is bringing in what are you doing about it,have you spoken to your local member,have you tried protesting these changes,oh hang on you cant because then they`l take you away never to be seen again,ok then how about running for parliament,or presenting a private bill ,I`m not sure how that works but I believe that you can do that,by getting in contact with the politician representing your seat,hang on that will bring you to the attention of asio,gee sorry run out of ideas better consult someone from your other forum,I`m sure they`ll be able to help you.

Notice Wayne unlike you I`m actually finding this thread funny,maybe its because i`m not scared and have nothing to hide.

P.S what facts are your referring to,when did you call for facts,are you referring to the laws that are going to imprison us all,well how I`m I supposed to get those,remember the government is doing this secretly.But I read the paper daily and see how the laws that scare you so witless report these things ,anyway go to go Wayne,Asio just called they want a report.

Hyperbole is the refuge of the gormless Nice try, but no cigar!

Tell you what. I'll make it easy for you. Read this link, it is a submission by Gideon Polya regarding the impending (now law) terrorist legislation. If you can be bothered reading it, it will give you clues as to where to do some more research as well as a different point of view.

http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/legcon_ctte/terrorism/submissions/sub112.pdf

cheers

PS Keep your dictionary handy.

 

[Rafa]

i posted something similar in the thread labelled 'Outrage'...

the israellis have just killed innocent beach goers.... in gaza....

great!!!!

more cause for outrage... and more recruits for the terrorist...

frankly, i don't know whose right and whose wrong... we are dealing with issues that are not simple to resolve and go back centuries.... and have been brought to a head with the israel - palestine issue...

debate on a forum such a this achieves nothing as no one i know has ever changed his/her opinion....

 

[wayneL]

Here is one provision of the law I was refering to, mentioned in the document above.

Imprisonment for 2 years is provided if a lawyer, partner, family member, journalist or indeed anyone reports the detention.

 

[Julia]

Here is one provision of the law I was refering to, mentioned in the document above.

Wayne

I share your concern about such aspects of the laws as that quoted above.
I understand this can even apply to a child taken into detention.

However, with respect to the more general aspects of the new anti-terrorist legislation, however much I may have misgivings about it, I can't come up with any viable alternatives.

e.g. we can't just pretend it's still 1960 and we are not at risk from terrorists here in Australia. Living in regional Queensland I don't personally feel at risk but probably would find myself occasionally thinking about getting on a train if I lived in Sydney.

I acknowledge that some of our freedoms and rights are being eroded.
However, I guess I'd have to say that I would opt for the present restrictions and somewhat Orwellian laws if that's the price we have to pay for at least some degree of security.


Do you think it would be better if our intelligence services et al (for what they are worth) simply ignored the terrorist threat?

I am frankly more concerned about the madness of politically correct behaviour which has seen the Gideon Bibles removed from hospital bedsides, just in case they might offend any Muslim who should occupy the bed!!
If we were admitted to hospital in a Muslim country, would we be offended at finding the Koran in the bedside drawer? No, of course not.
I have no personal interest in the Bible, but we should not be so sycophantic towards other religions that we remove it from our hospitals.

Julia

 

[visual]

Hyperbole is the refuge of the gormless Nice try, but no cigar!

Tell you what. I'll make it easy for you. Read this link, it is a submission by Gideon Polya regarding the impending (now law) terrorist legislation. If you can be bothered reading it, it will give you clues as to where to do some more research as well as a different point of view.

http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/legcon_ctte/terrorism/submissions/sub112.pdf

cheers

PS Keep your dictionary handy.

Wayne,such angst,you should really be careful you may have a stroke,all that anger simply isnt very healthy.

As Kamal beautifully put it
why are people so unkind.

 

[rederob]

I am frankly more concerned about the madness of politically correct behaviour which has seen the Gideon Bibles removed from hospital bedsides, just in case they might offend any Muslim who should occupy the bed!!
Julia

Madness confined to a small sector (The Royal Brisbane and Women's and Princess Alexandra hospitals in Brisbane) should not be seen as political correctness. The hospitals concerned have been condemned from every quarter, and the lame excuse that really caused the banning was a supposed need to "clean" the bibles after each patient because of possible infection.
You have a greater chance of contracting disease by handling money.
No.
Because everyone cleans their money before handing it to the next person I guess that's why no diseases are transmitted.
What?
Nobody cleans their filthy lucre!
Keep your money.
ahhhhhhchooooo

 

[wayneL]

Wayne

I share your concern about such aspects of the laws as that quoted above.
I understand this can even apply to a child taken into detention.

However, with respect to the more general aspects of the new anti-terrorist legislation, however much I may have misgivings about it, I can't come up with any viable alternatives.

e.g. we can't just pretend it's still 1960 and we are not at risk from terrorists here in Australia. Living in regional Queensland I don't personally feel at risk but probably would find myself occasionally thinking about getting on a train if I lived in Sydney.

I acknowledge that some of our freedoms and rights are being eroded.
However, I guess I'd have to say that I would opt for the present restrictions and somewhat Orwellian laws if that's the price we have to pay for at least some degree of security.


Do you think it would be better if our intelligence services et al (for what they are worth) simply ignored the terrorist threat?

I am frankly more concerned about the madness of politically correct behaviour which has seen the Gideon Bibles removed from hospital bedsides, just in case they might offend any Muslim who should occupy the bed!!
If we were admitted to hospital in a Muslim country, would we be offended at finding the Koran in the bedside drawer? No, of course not.
I have no personal interest in the Bible, but we should not be so sycophantic towards other religions that we remove it from our hospitals.

Julia

Hi Julia,

I see three separate issues

1/ We have no business in Iraq or Afganistan. Neither were a threat to Australia at the time. Now they are, because our troops are there. The pretext of invading these counties has proved to be false.

2/ Now that there is a threat, what to do about it? Well these laws do not in any way protect us from terrorism, they are designed to control you and me. The real terrorist would land up in the north west (just like Indon fishing boats do regularly, and set about there business clandestinely, avoiding the mainstream surveillance of the general populace.

The west has dealt with terrorism for years... IRA, Black September, PLO etc without the need for draconian laws that remove the rights of ordinary citizens. These laws are NOT for the reason stated, and are so draconian (as pointed out in Polyas' submission) as to arouse suspicions of a greater Orwellian agenda, using fear of terrorism as a tool to justify it...successfully it seems.

3/ The terrorism, though very real, is overstated, and the various government versions of events surrounding each of the major attacks to date, do not stack up under scrutiny. This means their investigations are incomplete, shoddy (which I cannot believe) or a complete pack of lies. As to the reason for the subterfuge, I will not speculate here, but sans any serious truth telling from governent, others are left to connect the dots.

911 STILL has not been seriously investigated and valid questions posed by acedemia and ex-military personel are not being answered, studiously avoided in fact... suspicious.

This all leaves me to arrive at uncomfortable conclusions about the future direction of western democracies.

As to giving up liberty for security, I agree with this quote, generally attributed (allegedly incorrectly) to Benjamin Franklin : "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

Thats my view on the matter.

 

[wayneL]

Wayne,such angst,you should really be careful you may have a stroke,all that anger simply isnt very healthy.

As Kamal beautifully put it
why are people so unkind.

Visual,

Schoolyard stuff, still no cigar. Sorry. You should listen to Kamal more often.

Cheers

 

[visual]

Wayne,
the conspiracy is growing now Julia is in too,
hope that bunker you are building is long term,still better build it away from the coast where the indon fisherman are landing.

love you work,Wayne keep it up

 

[Julia]

Wayne,
the conspiracy is growing now Julia is in too,
hope that bunker you are building is long term,still better build it away from the coast where the indon fisherman are landing.

love you work,Wayne keep it up

Visual

Umm, perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post. Are you suggesting that I am subscribing to various conspiracy theories?

Julia

 

[visual]

No,
Julia,
my post is tongue in cheek,

 

[Rafa]

I am frankly more concerned about the madness of politically correct behaviour which has seen the Gideon Bibles removed from hospital bedsides, just in case they might offend any Muslim who should occupy the bed!!
Julia

Julia,

I think you'll find the removal of bibles was more a work of the atheist leftys rather that any attempt of removal by muslims...

Infact, the muslims have gone on record for being against the plan... I don't know if you are aware, but the old testament is the same in both christianity and islam...

Infact most of the political correctness you witness today, i.e. the non singing of christmas carols, non teaching of religion is public schools, is because of atheistist agenda amongst some political and public service rather than as a result of complaints from muslims, or any other religion for that matter...

So, on this point, I hope you reconsider your statement... However, I do agree with you on your other points...

Rafa.

 

[Julia]

Julia,

I think you'll find the removal of bibles was more a work of the atheist leftys rather that any attempt of removal by muslims...

Infact, the muslims have gone on record for being against the plan... I don't know if you are aware, but the old testament is the same in both christianity and islam...

Infact most of the political correctness you witness today, i.e. the non singing of christmas carols, non teaching of religion is public schools, is because of atheistist agenda amongst some political and public service rather than as a result of complaints from muslims, or any other religion for that matter...

So, on this point, I hope you reconsider your statement... However, I do agree with you on your other points...

Rafa.

Rafa:

You've misunderstood what I meant. I realise absolutely that Muslims themselves clearly expressed their opposition to the removal of the Bibles.
I wasn't suggesting the stupidity occurred at their request or instigation.
As you say, it's the atheistic agenda amongst some decision makers which prompted this silliness, similar to the banning of Nativity scenes in shopping malls etc over Christmas.

My criticism was directed towards our very own Australians who seems to have a warped idea of what is appropriate.

Julia

 

[Rafa]

Ooops, sorry for the misunderstanding.....

Its so hard nowadays to work out what peoples hidden agenda's are... (i don't mean you, i mean politicians... )... Their actions can result in numerous either un-intended or intended repercussions.... all of them quite ligitamate...

I find I always read The Australian for a blatantly 'right' point of view and the SMH for a blatantly 'left' point of view... then theres the pragamatic point of view, the humanitarian point of view, the religious point of view, the athiest point of view, the multicultural point of view, the integrationist point of view, the racist point of view, the 'human-familiy' point of view, the environmental point of view, the conservationist point of view, the 'sh#t happens' point of view... it goes on...

everyones got their own agenda, the truth lies somewhere in between

Its just too hard...

 

[Jay-684]

Could anyone expand on the whole 'AUstralian flag' saga at Bondi/Wollahra council earlier this year? Also heard a Muslim council member at Wollahra had ham sandwiches banned.... dont know if it is rumour or fact though...

anyone who could clarify, that would be great!

 

[Happy]

I heard that flag was too expensive to maintain, as there were repeated attempts to pinch it or destroy, and some attempts were successful, hence cost.

As to sandwiches, I saw some of the comments on TV myself, with actually Muslims voicing their surprise, followed by statement, that they did not expect such a sacrifice.