Aboriginal?

[rederob]

Julia and mista
Apologies for overlapping of themes in posts above - started before lunch and posted a moment ago.

mista
If it's so good for indigenous Australians at uni, perhaps you can tell me how many are participating in these courses, how many are attending uni as a percentage of the total population, and how many actually complete a qualification.
Tertiary institutions are encouraged to place indigenous students, and the government ensures that where applicants meet the criteria set, their enrolments will be funded. Talk to an institution and ask how succesful they are in enroling indigenous students who live outside metropolitan areas.

My favourite bit of non-racist writing: yes julia i would love a list of the differences between aboriginies and normal people.
I can only think there must be a third "race", perhaps "mistafits"!

 

[mista200]

Rederbob, obviously there will be bugger all aboriginies who even apply for courses let alone finish them.....whos fault is that?????

How are we meant to class aboriginies as "normal people" if they are treated differently from the rest of us? I actually met a part aboriginal girl a few weeks back at a club, and i can assure you that she is a human being just the same as all of us, and yet she can/could get benefits that we can't!

 

[rederob]

Rederbob, obviously there will be bugger all aboriginies who even apply for courses let alone finish them.....whos fault is that?????

mista
Are you into "blame", mista?
If there is a problem, it needs to be fixed.
Some people are working hard on it.
Others want to whinge that we don't get what they get.
Well, I want to live long, not be jailed, not suffer treatable diseases, and not be discriminated against every time I look at at someone else. If I got what they got then all the things I want, I would not get.
Get it?

 

[bunyip]

bunyip
I know you want a reply from Sara and my apologies for intervening.
If you were a Kurd, tell me what your nationality was.
If you called yourself a Slav, tell me what your nationality was.
If you were a Romany (Gypsy), tell me what your nationality was.
Because I was born in Australia I call myself Australian. I equally identify with Irish, and could use my Eastern European heritage to confuse people further.
If I had "Aboriginal" heritage/lineage I would not be afraid to tell people - indeed, I would be quite proud.
Mansel's case is interesting.
White people are keen to forget that we (whites) hunted down and mostly killed off (or banished) the Tasmanian Aborigines.
Those in Tasmania that are still alive and able to identify their heritage should not be ashamed.

All of which has nothing to do with my question to Sarah. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with being aboriginal, or that anyone of aboriginal heritage should be ashamed of it.
My great grandmother was Irish and my other great grandmother was Danish.
I don't claim to be either Danish or Irish.....I was born in Australia and I'm Australian.
I simply asked Sarah why anyone who is predominately of European descent would claim to be aboriginal, (or any other race for that matter). I think it's a fair question and I'm sure she's quite capable of answering it herself.

Rather than speculating as to the reasons behind a persons insistence that they're aboriginal when they're predominately of an entirely different race, let's just let Sarah answer for herself, shall we.

 

[Smurf1976]

If you find a job/occupation/trade or vocation that you love then you persist with it to the highest level. It's called loving your work and you become proficient and the best in your specialty. These people always float to the top regardless of education or background. If you are unlucky enough to never find this then you just work. You can have a string of letters behind you name but does not always mean that you are good at what you do.

You've hit the nail on the head there IMO. I've come across plenty of people lacking formal qualifications who are very much better at what they do than those with a string of letters after their name. Obviously there are exceptions (you wouldn't want an unqualified doctor, for example) but in general this does seem to be the case - those with a genuine interest will do well no matter what hurdles are placed in their way. Those lacking interest will be mediocre at best no matter how well qualified they are.

As for race issues, my mother was born in England but I was born in Australia. As far as I'm concerned I'm Australian.

Thinking about it more locally, if both of your parents were born in Adelaide but you were born in Melbourne and have always lived in Melbourne then you wouldn't claim to be South Australian. Unless perhaps if the SA government starts handing out money...

 

[rederob]

Rather than speculating as to the reasons behind a persons insistence that they're aboriginal when they're predominately of an entirely different race, let's just let Sarah answer for herself, shall we.

bunyip
First, you totally missed the points I made.
Secondly, I had no intention of answering for Sara.

In the States people might identify as "Hispanic" or "Latino", and I can guarantee that most white Americans would not understand or be able to pick the difference between these "races" and for that matter between people who would call themselves "American".
In Australia do we assume that if you have blonde hair and/or blue eyes you cannot be "Aboriginal"? So if that blonde haired, blue eyed person lived an Aboriginal community, lived in a house with an extended family, and spoke a native tongue plus English, they could not be Aboriginal. Or perhaps "should not" be.

I have lived most of my life in the eastern States of Australia, but I call myself "West Australian". It's how I choose to identify myself.

Michael Mansel (Nigel's race was the F1, by the way) chose to identify as "Aboriginal" because he can trace Aboriginal heritage on both his mother and father's sides. When I next meet with him I will tell him he would do better to change his name to Nigel so there can be no mistaking his race!

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

.. and not be discriminated against every time I look at at someone else.

White Australia gets this from our northern neighbour and from most who are not white in this country. :nono:

 

[Julia]

mista
Are you into "blame", mista?
If there is a problem, it needs to be fixed.
Some people are working hard on it.
Others want to whinge that we don't get what they get.
Well, I want to live long, not be jailed, not suffer treatable diseases, and not be discriminated against every time I look at at someone else. If I got what they got then all the things I want, I would not get.
Get it?

If we just look at the disease question: diabetes with its concomitant renal failure, high blood pressure and resulting cardiovascular disease and strokes: these are mostly preventable by reasonably sensible diet and adequate exercise. I specifically said "mostly" because there will be some people who will develop these disorders despite their best efforts to avoid them.
However, I think most health providers would agree that we all need to take responsibility for being proactive in our own healthcare and those of us who drink excessive amounts of alcohol, smoke either cigarettes or other drugs, eat too much fatty food, and do not exercise are necessarily exposing ourselves to developing these diseases. These patients, white and black, then have to be cared for by the tax payer funded health system.

Then there is the question of the greater number of indigenous people in jails. Either this is undue and extreme prejudice by sentencing judges/juries, or increased level of crime by indigenous people. Which is it?

Then we haven't touched on the high level of domestic violence and child abuse which prevails in aboriginal communites. Yes, of course, it exists in white communities also, but not to nearly the same extent. It is even worse amongst the NZ Maori population. Why is this?

These are the problems which concern most people. It's not a question of blame or criticism. But neither should it be acceptable for us to shrug our collective shoulders and stop asking why the problems exist to the extent that they do.

I have much respect for Noel Pearson who promotes the concept of indigenous people taking responsibility for their situation. If there was more leadership within indigenous communities of the calibre of this articulate and thoughtful man, I think we'd all regard the future of the aboriginal population with considerably more optimism.

Julia

 

[Joe Blow]

Several posts have been deleted from this thread as they contained nothing more than personal attacks and petty bickering and contributed nothing to the thread.

I would also like to make one thing very clear. I do not want the term 'abo' used on ASF. In my opinion it is racist and derogatory. Any post which contains this term will be instantly deleted. If you are too lazy to type aborigine then perhaps you shouldn't be posting.

Now lets get this thread back on track and stick to the issue please.

 

[Happy]

Lazy typists could use Word Program and have Macro working that every time you hit ab it will come up with complete word.

Joe, you could also instead of deleting posts automatically re-edit them, after all it doesn’t matter who uses macro.

 

[nelly]

What surprises me is why people don’t say (with equal pride) of any other blood in their vanes, sometimes 60% or even 90%?

I can only be sarcastic if say what I think why, so I won’t.

I'm always proud to say I'm part fijian, but sometimes not so proud of the european half................in the end we are all citizens of the human race.

 

[nelly]

I'm another one who wonders why people with only a small percentage of aboriginal blood insist on calling themselves aboriginal. Activist Nigel Mansel was a case in point. Blond hair, blue eyes, 90% white by the look of him, yet he insisted he was aboriginal.

If I had a dog that looked like a bull terrier, and both its parents were bull terriers, but its great grandfather was a labrador cross, I can't see any good reason for calling the dog a labrador. Particulary if it overwhelmingly shows the features of a bull terrier.

I look forward to hearing Sara's responses from the people at her meeting. But in the meantime Sara, I'd like to hear your personal response.
Although I've never seen you, I presume you have at least 50% European blood and that in looks you resemble a European as much as you resemble an aboriginal. If this is in fact the case, why is it that you call yourself aboriginal?
Please ignore this question if your lineage is more than 50% aboriginal and you exhibit aboriginal features.
Please don't see my questions as nosey or critical, or an attempt to 'put you on the line', so to speak. I really am interested in knowing why some people call themselves aboriginal when in fact they show a predominance of European features.

Bunyip

Hi Bunyip
Fair question and I can only answer for myself...I am half Fijian/German/White N.Z.[that doesn't equate to half anything, but you get the gist]
And I only ever identify myself [if the question is put to me] as being a Kiwi. Why do people automatically assume I am part Moari???? [and they do.] [not that that would be a bad thing]
Anyway I think it is all about how you identify with 'self.'
cheers...have a nice day

 

[bunyip]

I think most replies I have read is in fact an indication of what many white Australians think about us Aboriginals.

Before any of you make any more comments may I suggest that you visit an Aboriginal centre or township and see for yourselves what the living standards are.

Sarah

I've been to several aboriginals towns around Australia.....the town of Elliott in the Northern Territory and the town of Worrabinda in Queensland are two that come to mind.

In Elliott most of the houses (all of which are provided FREE by the government) had holes kicked in the walls, doors ripped off hinges, windows broken.
Same story in Woorabinda, and in most other aboriginal towns I've been in.
Wooribinda is an hour or so inland from Rockhampton, on the Tropic of Capricorn. It's hot up there in the tropics, and the Wooribinda community lobbeyed the government to provide a public swimming pool so they could cool off in summer, and so that young people would have some enjoyable activity, hence less time to get bored and turn to petty crime.
Worrabinda was featured in a TV program earlier this year.
Their olympic size swimming pool, provided free at their request, is now a pool of stagnant green water with algae growing on the surface, the tiles have been ripped off the pool, the water has been deliberatedly fouled by having foreign substances thrown into it, the windows in the change rooms have been smashed, holes kicked in the walls, plants have been ripped out of the gardens.
I'm sure you get the picture.....the community has destroyed the pool they were given - it's now shut down and is never used.
They've treated the pool with the same contempt with which they treat just about everything else they're given, including their houses.
The houses provided are quite adequate, I've lived in worse myself, and nobody gave it to me free, I've always had to buy my own houses.
The standards in aboriginal communities are largely the result of the communities themselves not appreciating what they're given, not making the most of their opportunities, wrecking perfectly good houses and amenities.
You rarely see a nice garden around an aboriginal home. Why not?....they have water laid on, they have plenty of time on their hands, they're as physically capable as anyone else of digging up the ground and planting a few flowers or trees or lawn.
I get a little tired of hearing about the low living standards of aboriginals. They are given every opportunity and encouragement to get an education, get careers, and make something of their lives.
They have money pushed their way constantly....free housing being just one example.
If aboriginals want a better standard of living then they need to realise that those in the community with decent living standards are in that position largely because of the actions they took. They didn't demand that the government provide them with their every need. They made the most of their educational opportunities, they got jobs and careers and worked hard to get ahead. They borrowed to buy a house and they worked hard to pay it off. They planted gardens around their homes to give themselves a pleasant living environment.
If they used alcohol they did so responsibly in most cases....they didn't abuse it.
I suggest you point out these things to the locals next time you visit an aboriginal community. Tell them about their opportunities, explain to them that they need to make the most of those opportunities if they want to rise above their present situation. Try and get them to change their mentality that the rest of Australia owes them a living.
I have nothing against people for the colour of their skin. I went to boarding school with black kids and I became great mates with some of them. They were top blokes and top sportsmen, and they made the most of their opportunities and made something of their lives. I still keep in touch with them, I bear hug them whenever I run into them at school reunions etc.
People should be judged on character, integrity, decency, not skin colour.
Aboriginal people are just as capable of showing character, decency and integrity as anyone else.
I have the utmost respect and admiration for any aboriginal person who has grasped his/her opportunities and made a success of his or her life.
Unfortunately, these people constitute only a very small percentage of the aboriginal population.
White Australia is not to blame. The opportunities are there in abundance for any aboriginal person who want to take them.
THIS is the message you need to put out in the aboriginal communities you visit.

One more thing. I suggest you do everything possible in your role as an aboriginal community worker, to get alcohol banned in aboriginal communities. I don't need to tell you the problems it causes.
Some aboriginal communities have passed laws banning alcohol, and the beneficial effect has been immediate.

Bunyip

 

[Julia]

I've never been to any aboriginal communities. I think most of us would be disgusted by the type of vandalism that Bunyip describes.

One suggestion I have heard is that, despite so called "civilisation", aboriginal people are still genetically hunters and gatherers, and as such simply do not understand the concept of respect and care for property. I'm not in the least defending irresponsible abuse of houses, pools or anything else, but sometimes looking for some reason why might help in finding the solution.

I wonder, too, if this lack of respect and sense of responsibility would be the same if they had actually themselves worked for these assets? If instead of being presented with a beautiful swimming pool, courtesy of the taxpayer, they had been required to physically participate in its construction. Would that have possibly imbued a sense of achievement and pride and resulted in a different outcome?

Passive welfare certainly doesn't appear to be working. Perhaps it's worth (a) removing alcohol as Bunyip has suggested, and (b) ceasing the handouts in favour of earning the things they want or need.

Julia

 

[Happy]

Abbott says Indigenous communities must do more


Federal Health Minister Tony Abbott says Aboriginal communities in South Australia's far north should do more to help themselves.
He has just finished a three-day tour of Aboriginal communities in central Australia to see how things have changed since he was there last year.
Mr Abbott says while the Government has made some steps forward, it is the members of the communities themselves who need to improve.
"You don't change a culture of dysfunction overnight or even in 12 months and the Government is expected to provide just about everything," he said.
"We do need to do more, but one of the things that we also have to do is to try to get the local people to take more responsibility as well.
"It's very important ... that the parents do more to make sure the kids go to school and the adults do more to make sure that people show up to the community employment development projects."

I wonder how long it will take to turn the tide?

 

[mista200]

perhaps we could give them a free share portfolio to manage each- just a little bit to start off with and the extra amount they recieve via the dole could go into buying a few more shares each week....? With free brokerage of course!!!!

also banning alcohol and PETROL would be good for aborinigie communities!

 

[Bobby]

They need to Know self respect, as Noel Mason has correctly stated !

Nothing for nothing !

Bob.

 

[TheAnalyst]

Our white government would not give whites free housing....ever

 

[Happy]

Friday, July 14, 2006.

No arrests made over Indigenous abuse


Northern Territory Police say they have been unable to make any arrests in relation to allegations of child sexual abuse in central Australian Aboriginal communities, despite having interviewed almost 300 people.
A police and Department of Family and Community Services task force was formed three weeks ago, following allegations of children being forced to trade sex for petrol at the Mutijulu community near Uluru.
Detective Superintendent Colleen Gwynne says it has reviewed allegations going back four years.
She says while investigations are continuing across the Northern Territory, South Australia and Western Australia, no arrests have been made.
"At this stage, we have been unable to really uncover any direct evidence that indicates that that particular person who was named by a lot of the media outlets was involved in child sexual abuse," he said.
"He certainly is mentioned but not directly in relation to sexual abuse of children."

Some possibilities

- False allegations
- Conspiracy driven by fear or resentment

 

[Julia]

Some possibilities

- False allegations
- Conspiracy driven by fear or resentment

Not necessarily, Happy. There is a widespread phenomenon of "no one talking" when it comes to this sort of problem.

A recent example has been in New Zealand where two very young twins were murdered by someone in their own family. Despite exhaustive interviewing of the extended family by police, considerable intervention by both Maori and Pakeha social workers, etc. no one is saying anything and the perpetrator goes unpunished.

This could be a result of some sort of misplaced "family loyalty" or, possibly more likely, fear of retribution for speaking out.

Julia