Aboriginal?

[Julia]

The poor sods are still in the same mess they were in last time i was in this thread.

I reckon if i come back in fifty years and check this thread they will still be up to their necks in $hit, mostly self inflicted and still blaming everyone else except themselves. About time they started sorting themselves out!!

To have to go in and clean up ENTIRE communities is disgraceful and an embarrassing.

I'm just glad someone is finally doing something about the pedophiles and violence. It makes my skin crawl.............

You're presumably not considering a career in social work, then, Jessica?

 

[2020hindsight]

Do governments (State and/or Federal) make money from alcohol and cigaretters re taxes?

Lol - fair point, State would for sure.

But there may have to be limits on the number of casks of wine for instance . (suspect there already is in some localities). And maybe percentage alcohol reduced etc.

This one is totally impractical, but wouldn't it be justice if those who benefitted from selling them stuff for substance abuse were involved in the social repair - whether part time ambulancemen , or whatever.

I'm reminded of what I heard an ambulanceman once say, (assuming I heard him right) - that a drunk is so much more difficult - often aggressive, often extremely sick, long term and nothing you can do till that C2H5OH gets oxidised (?) whatever -

than a drug overdose on heroin for instance, where you simply have to give them a quick injection and it's over and done with. (Not sure about all drugs of course). Not sure about petrol / glue sniffing either

But excess of alcohol is very tricky for everyone. , moderation not a problem. Even with Kava I guess - first drink makes your tongue a bit numb, fifth you start to float, but twentyfifth starts to scramble the brain etc.

 

[moneymajix]

Interesting story on PM last night re
Canadian Indigenous-run prison impresses NT

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s1965086.htm

 

[2020hindsight]

Interesting story on PM last night re
Canadian Indigenous-run prison impresses NT

yep interesting, moneymajix

The elders who run this program say that about 80 per cent of the men who complete it never re-offend.

Its impressed the head of Corrections in the Northern Territory, Jens Tolstrup who says that one in two of his prisoners end up back in jail within five years of their release.

JENS TOLSTRUP: I think it's a great idea. I've known the idea for some years, they've been running it in Canada for 11 years and I think it's a great thing.

CONOR DUFFY: Jens Tolstrup believes recidivism rates for Australian Aborigines could be improved if a jail similar to Stan Daniels was opened here.

But he doesn't know if he'll get the money to make it happen

Successive Canadian governments have invested the necessary cash over the last 20 years.

The will to act and to spend in Australia has been lacking.

With the focus on the Territory and ending crime in remote communities, there may never be a better time to turn that around and help keep another generation of Aborigines out of prison.

 

[2020hindsight]

more cartoons :-

 

[2020hindsight]

and...

 

[2020hindsight]

Lol, just looking at SBS - 1900 years ago, the city of Timgad in North Africa had sewerage, thanks to the Roman engineers ..

most Aust Ab communities in 2007 still dont

Lost Worlds : The Roman Empire - Part 2: Timgad: Roman Africa
Time: Sunday, July 1, 7:30 PM
Channel: SBS
Duration: 60 minutes
Rating: PG
Type: Documentary

The city of Timgad in North Africa is a perfect illustration of the Empire's impressive system of expansion. It is testimony to the Roman method of cultural domination and assimilation. The program takes a look at this showpiece city, whose purpose was to instil in the natives of Mauritania the desire to become, and remain, Roman citizens. Every stone bears witness to an intense, exhilarating lifestyle, like the traces left by games of hopscotch or marbles, or the telling anonymous graffiti which reads: "Hunting, bathing, gaming, jesting - this is the life".

 

[macca]

Hi 2020,

The sewer was probably built by the residents under the supervision of the Roman Whipcrackers

I don't see any reason why the aboriginals could not have made improvements to their towns, maybe they didn't feel like it.

 

[Julia]

Hi 2020,

The sewer was probably built by the residents under the supervision of the Roman Whipcrackers

I don't see any reason why the aboriginals could not have made improvements to their towns, maybe they didn't feel like it.

Good point, Macca.

I'd also question that there should exist full facilities in aboriginal communities in remote places which are equivalent to highly populated areas.

If I chose to live in some remote area I wouldn't be expecting full services.

 

[2020hindsight]

ok ok - maybe not sewer - maybe clean water though?
All I know is that I wouldn't swap with em.

btw, I think I heard that palm island incident may go to civil court - possibly sueing the police union as well (bit strange) - possibly going on for years to come. So I'll post this for reference.
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s1958375.htm

Here's todays update :-
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s1967160.htm

Mulrunji's family to launch civil action
ANDREW BOE: It's not a question of moving on; it's a question of pursuing every avenue in which there can be some determination about responsibility. I mean, the family know that the prospects of substantial financial returns are very, very limited.

It's more the principle and it's more the issue that's there's been a determination of responsibility for this death. I mean, this death should not go down in vain. And if there are liabilities that attach with consequences for Government, Police Service as well as the Senior Sergeant, well they will be pursued.

PETER CAVE: Brisbane-based lawyer Andrew Boe speaking to Conor Duffy.

as they say ... "Principles make lawyers rich"

 

[2020hindsight]

btw, here's Kakadu - and there's a rainbow serpent if ever I saw one
Also Uluru and the Olgas (about 25-30km west I think)
Also the Olgas by the time Brett Whiteley has interpreted them

http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/06/14/1950737.htm The Olgas, by the late Brett Whiteley, which sold at auction for almost AUD3.48 million in Sydney, June 13, 2007... "He sexualised the landscape in a way no other artist has ever done before, in Australian terms anyway."

look more like magic mushrooms to me
same goes for the bloke who paid $3.5 million for it , sheesh.

 

[visual]

Good point, Macca.

I'd also question that there should exist full facilities in aboriginal communities in remote places which are equivalent to highly populated areas.

If I chose to live in some remote area I wouldn't be expecting full services.

Julia,
don`t forget that,these aboriginals are choosing to live in such areas because they are meant to be living the aboriginal life.Not sure their original way of life requires such things.After all aren`t they exempt from the laws that prevent white people killing protected animals because for them it`s part of their staple diet.

 

[2020hindsight]

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=104073&highlight=olgas#post104073
nice spot to visit - provided you pick a cold day
Seems to be some confusion as to why Govt intervention into child sex abuse is conditional upon taking a five year lease , but no doubt a logical explanation will emerge with time.

 

[happytrader]

I live in a nice area, and even though there are the odd ATSIC (now defunct) homes spread throughout, the quality is such that an outsider would not be aware of this fact. It is easy to observe that by the way that the properties are maintained and the way that these residents conduct themselves that they hold to a very high standard. 'Living up to their homes' and street so to speak.

I am a great believer that in changing ones external environment it stimulates mental movement.

Cheers
Happytrader

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/06/1971866.htm?section=justin

A Melbourne University Professor says child sex abuse in the Northern Territory is less rampant in the Territory than it is in mainstream Australian suburbs.

Professor Peter Botsman says figures from the Commonwealth's '2004/2005 Child Protection Report' show the level of abuse in the Territory's remote Indigenous communities is five times less than in Victoria.

Professor Botsman has just completed a report, called 'Putting Indigenous Child Abuse in the Northern Territory into Perspective'.

He says Indigenous children living in the suburbs along Australia's east coast are the ones at risk.

"It just underlines the ignorance in which the incursion into the Northern Territory has been performed," he said.

"If [John] Howard and [Mal] Brough were really interested in child abuse it would be Queensland and New South Wales and Victoria that they would be working at."

Mr Botsman says the nation's reaction to child sex abuse in the Territory's remote Indigenous communities has been driven by prejudice.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/06/1971812.htm?section=justin

PM denies health check-welfare restriction link
Posted 4 hours 3 minutes ago

The Prime Minister, John Howard, says there is no intention to restrict the welfare payments of Indigenous parents in the Northern Territory who refuse to have their children medically examined.

Mr Howard says that under the Federal Government's intervention program voluntary health checks for children will only be carried out with the consent of parents or carers.

He says it is a misunderstanding to suggest that there will be any penalty imposed on those who refuse the checks.

I guess with enough clarifications and elimination of ambiguity and justifiable misunderstanding , it will eventually become clear what is going on. Process of elimination as they say.

Incidentally, as if NSW can spare police for NT !! - there have been cases where people have been beaten up bigtime ( I think killed, not sure) at the steps of the police station because the stations were not manned.

And incidentally , speaking of booze, I heard recently that there are also cases - sure to be rare - where white hoteliers who double as "contract labour contractors" (to arrange for Abs to work in agriculture) - only employ Abs who are prepared to take credits at the pub (for booze purchase) for at least part of their payment. Maybe others are aware of this practice as well (?)

 

[sandlion]

Sucked in...

I have only been in two countries where alcohol was forbidden and permits were required to travel through the country...

Australia (NT specifically)
and
Saudi Arabia

What a joke, pretty much old mate Maximus Russellus Crowe summed it up...

"People should know when they're beaten"

...assimilate or get stuffed, ever consider that no-one particularly wants to subsidise indigenous anything? Why should new mate chinese immigrant pay tax out of his 14 hour day to some lazy aboriginal community determined to drink piss all day, get diabetes and blame it all on someone else..

Aboriginals....the definition of unAustralian

 

[2020hindsight]

old mate Maximus Russellus Crowe summed it up..."People should know when they're beaten"Aboriginals....the definition of unAustralian

Maximus is a stage name mate
as I recall Maximus was given a hard time in the movie, only to turn unbelievable odds around .

telling those Abs trying to crawl out from that plight that there's no hope (when Brough says it's a national disgrace for instance) sounds like something a Minimus would say to me.

 

[2020hindsight]

Here's one critical of the NT's most senior public servant. Best read the whole article. Sounds like Tyrrell is vulnerable to me. The best defence is offence as they say.

Having said that - I'm sure he also makes some good points about the sudden unilateral actions (and confusion caused) by recent federal intervention.

http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=277193

EXCLUSIVE: Memo to public servants exposes territory resistance to intervention. By Paul Toohey.
A senior member of Indigenous Affairs Minister Mal Brough's special taskforce into child sexual abuse in the Northern Territory has already emerged as a potentially undermining force, sending a memo to all Territory public servants complaining about the federal intervention.

The chief executive of the Department of the Chief Minister, Paul Tyrrell, says in the memo that the federal intervention was made "unilaterally" and without regard to the "considerable progress" the Territory Government has apparently made over the years in addressing indigenous problems.

Tyrrell states in the memo that progress was already well under way to address problems before the federal government intervened, and congratulates those public servants who have "been working on programs to help stop child abuse and have been responsible for successes in this area, in spite of challenges".

Brough last week appointed Tyrrell to his taskforce, which will enforce and monitor the federal government's emergency child sexual abuse intervention in the Territory.

Despite this, Tyrrell says the Territory will continue with its plans to release a full response to the Little Children Are Sacred report, along with costed plans for implementing its recommendations - even though Brough has totally overruled that report and brought in his own emergency measures.

Brough appointed Tyrrell to his taskforce not for any special interest he has in child abuse, but to keep the Territory Government in the loop on the rapidly unfolding events. But by issuing the July 4 memorandum, Tyrrell appears as a potential rat in Brough's taskforce ranks.

When Labor came to power in 2001, Clare Martin had a clean-out of the public service executive. Yet she kept the Country Liberal Party-appointed Tyrrell, valuing him as the man who had the expertise that was needed to keep major infrastructure projects - mainly rail and gas - moving along.

Martin has essentially been guided by a CLP-minded bureaucrat ever since she took office.

It is often said that Tyrrell is the real leader in the Territory, and the man who has constantly steered Martin away from taking action on Aboriginal issues for fear it would offend her newly won white voter base.

But now Martin's in the national spotlight for her failures to act - failures that may be based on the advice of Tyrrell, her highest-paid public servant.

Which might explain the defensive tone of Tyrrell's open letter to public servants.

Tyrrell writes of the existing "progressive implantation of programs" to address child abuse in the Territory and says the feds stepped in "without reference to the considerable progress many NT Government departments had already made".

Tyrrell's memo is backed up by a chart called "The Facts", whereby he provides a comparison between the federal intervention and the Territory's own supposed long-standing action plan. Overall, it makes the highly questionable argument that the Territory was already on track in instigating major reforms.

There's another way of reading this memo: as an apology from Tyrrell for failing to listen to Territory public servants over many, many years

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/
This is great summary of the confusion around last weekend.... (gee but Insiders is a great show !! )

And for an interesting discussion of double standards -...

Go to "the panel discusses the week in politics" - unfortunately no transcript available - click on "Win Lo" to view the video of the guest reporters (under Barrie Cassidy's excellent chairmanship) discussing the Ab question (plus other matters).

there's an interesting moral discussion at the 10 minute mark (approx) - just past the half way point

CASSIDY : "I'll give you another example , right? - we'll go further on this double standards matter... Bulletin article by Paul Kelly
Several weeks ago in Katherine a 16 year old boy is charged. He and a 14 year old girl have a child - consent, no complaints from the girl - but a govt worker complains - now he faces charges with up to 16 year jail sentence.

Now by way of contrast what happens to white miners guilty of the same or similar offences - here's Rex Wilde QC...
"We were told that their children, kids between ages of 12 - 15 were visiting miner's accommodation - miners caught "acting inappropriately" were sent back home by the companies"

The panel conclude...

The miners should have been charged - The mining companies should have called in the police. There is no such thing as consent for sex by junior / minor.

Rex Wild having highlighted that ..... John Howard to his credit is now going to meet with the mining companies and ask what's going on?

Sounds like not only Abs are going to get some publicity out of all this , and/or that Ab kid's charges will be quietly dropped etc

PS for those interested, Insiders is on at 9.00am on Sunday mornings. (with panel discussion at about 9.30) - bludy brilliant !

PPS as I've said before , you wonder why they have such a disproportionate percentage in jail when things like that happen