Aboriginal?

Interesting article in the Guardian ....London newspaper... a few days ago...about the detrimental effect of the British Empire on indigenous populations.They referred ,amongst others,to the Australian aboriginal population left "drunk and demoralised "on the outskirts of the Australian mainstream society.(not to mention dispossessed).The article also referred to the mess that they left in Palestine,Iraq,Afghanistan,Kenya,Nigeria etc.
I suppose that you could also add South Africa and New Zealand to that list.
I remember being taught at school what a magnificent institution that the British Empire was.Not even British historians repeat that line any more.As we all know it was for the benefit of the British shareholders.

robert toms said:

Interesting article in the Guardian ....London newspaper... a few days ago...about the detrimental effect of the British Empire on indigenous populations.They referred ,amongst others,to the Australian aboriginal population left "drunk and demoralised "on the outskirts of the Australian mainstream society.(not to mention dispossessed).The article also referred to the mess that they left in Palestine,Iraq,Afghanistan,Kenya,Nigeria etc.
I suppose that you could also add South Africa and New Zealand to that list.
I remember being taught at school what a magnificent institution that the British Empire was.Not even British historians repeat that line any more.As we all know it was for the benefit of the British shareholders.

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Robert, do you have a link to that article?

Julia

Sorry Julia no,but it was one of their guest feature writers...down left hand column on their opening page...it was only early last week I think....and I only thought of it again after I scanned the "Aboriginal" thread again.I recalled a friend of mine, a long time ago, telling me how the British had brought civilization to India...and to pass history exams in high school we had to argue the value of apartheid in South Africa,that is,what a legitimate form of government it was....beneficial to the black population.These things we were inculcated with during the Menzies era.
As an aside,are any members of the current Howard government welcome in South Africa? I cannot recall Downer ever making a trip there?

Bobby said:

Greeting Nelly,

You seem a fun bird, Yep them bull***T artists are all round us , be carful.

Just understand this ! to make money off the market , you will be taking it off someone else !
Its no game , think what you are about to do, how clever are you ?
Tell Me.

Regards
Bob.

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Hi ya Bob.....i'll b matching it.....i know it is no 'game'....and all i do is think..[not after the rugby last night...it hurt 2 much]......i'm more intelligent compared 2 most ....and more stoopid compared 2 a few .....the terms 'play' and 'game' ...i don't use them 2 imply a flippant attitude....i was actually called a moron 4 using those terms...hehe
cheerful

nelly said:

Hi ya Bob.....i'll b matching it.....i know it is no 'game'....and all i do is think..[not after the rugby last night...it hurt 2 much]......i'm more intelligent compared 2 most ....and more stoopid compared 2 a few .....the terms 'play' and 'game' ...i don't use them 2 imply a flippant attitude....i was actually called a moron 4 using those terms...hehe
cheerful

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Good for you Nelly,
I like the thinking & drinking !

Have fun
Bob.

why hasnt anyone yet admitted that whites claim to be aboriginal for the extra benefits??? Is it really that hard to speak the truth; im not saying that is the case for sarah, but hey if i had the chance to get into university with a crappy ENTER score then i would take it too!

mista200 said:

why hasnt anyone yet admitted that whites claim to be aboriginal for the extra benefits??? Is it really that hard to speak the truth; im not saying that is the case for sarah, but hey if i had the chance to get into university with a crappy ENTER score then i would take it too!

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Mista
Why don't you "put up or shut up".
Your lack of understanding of matters raised in this and related threads says what, about you?
Throw enough mud and it will stick?
If you know of actual instances of what you want raised, report them here and I will personally present them to the proper authorities.
Alternatively, my private email is available.

mista200 said:

why hasnt anyone yet admitted that whites claim to be aboriginal for the extra benefits??? Is it really that hard to speak the truth; im not saying that is the case for sarah, but hey if i had the chance to get into university with a crappy ENTER score then i would take it too!

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Some time ago on this thread when a similar claim was made about the extra privileges available to Aborigines, I asked the contributor (can't remember who it was now) just exactly what these extra privileges were. I asked because I simply don't know whether this often made suggestion is actually true or not. Perhaps they do get extra benefits. If so what are they?

And now again we have Mista repeating the suggestion. So, Mista, could you be specific as to just what you are referring to and then we might all be wiser. Or, alternatively, are you just perpetuating another myth?

Julia

I heard of few.
If you are aboriginal you don’t have to buy fishing licence.
Also there was something mentioned so-called ‘shoe money’, somewhere between 2 and 3 dollars for every day aboriginal primary school student was present at school.
I also heard about low interest rates for house.
As to special treatment to get place at the uni, I heard too, but I have no hard evidence, suppose one could ask politician or search some government sites.

But I suppose this is not officially published, so it is hard to get to know about extra privileges available for some in the land of Australia where everybody is equal.

Happy said:

I heard of few.
If you are aboriginal you don’t have to buy fishing licence.
Also there was something mentioned so-called ‘shoe money’, somewhere between 2 and 3 dollars for every day aboriginal primary school student was present at school.
I also heard about low interest rates for house.
As to special treatment to get place at the uni, I heard too, but I have no hard evidence, suppose one could ask politician or search some government sites.

But I suppose this is not officially published, so it is hard to get to know about extra privileges available for some in the land of Australia where everybody is equal.

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Yes happy, there are many more open doors for aboriginals to advance themselves then others who think they are Australians .

Why is that ?

Bob.

Bobby said:

Yes happy, there are many more open doors for aboriginals to advance themselves then others who think they are Australians .

Why is that ?

Bob.

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Grow a brain!

Hardly a land of opportunity for those who grow up in a abusive, non policed, poorly tutored aboriginal community. People whom we have encouraged through poor policy to make them dependant on social security.

If any of them can take advantage of some small concessions that the government may give them despite their disadvantaged background and get to Uni then good on them!

Knobby22 said:

Grow a brain!

Hardly a land of opportunity for those who grow up in a abusive, non policed, poorly tutored aboriginal community. People whom we have encouraged through poor policy to make them dependant on social security.

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Yes Knoppy,
Thats the point (Grow a brain ) can't you see it ?, are you another Richard Cranium
Treat Aboriginals as normal Australians , why have communities, lets just let the melt happen !

Knoppy don't try esoteric rhetoric replys to my posts till you ( grow a brain )

Bob.

It's a love-hate relationship here.....lotta rubbish being touted from those citty fellas ...huh.....

The fact is Aborigional Australia is what it is, and it wiil go up or it will go down, depending on the government of the day...just like the stockmarket!

And all government at the moment is pathetic......

They have no balls to say what should be said....or do what realy needs to be done!

The day government gave the Aborigional 'SIT-DOWN MONEY' was the turining point in the degredation of the 'people', and now that the Aborigioinal have acess to 'MIND NUMBING CHEMICALS and THE MEDIA', they have , in effect, labeled themselves as a degrated minority that is at the bottom of society.....but this is changing...slowly....Aborigional people are a proud and happy people, and it's only the interaction with 'WHITE' society that has ruined, and continues to riuin, a great Australian icon....THE ABORIGIONAN RACE

I have pesonaly met, and made 'mates', with several 'ABBO' blokes and chicks and had a ball with them all.......but I have also been spat on bashed and treated like a piece of roo poo by others......

90% of the time I was treated extremely well.....probably only because I diddn't speak down to them (but I am 6'2") and tried to find out what they are on about...went to a couple of ABBO parties, ate their food( roo goanna, whitchety....maccas...lol)...and had a good old chat about where the community was going.......no holds barred!

They even say SIT-DOWN MONEY was the worst thing you could have done for them!...Blow me down cobba!

And on the note of Aborigional health.....It's Bad, where white australia has interferred....but for those who haven't had too much 'white medicine' in the last 20,000 years....not much has changed.....people live and, as is expected, people die.....life is a disease that will kill you! ... lol

90% of smokers will die and 40% of heavy drinkers will die...

THAT's 130%........Where are we gonna find the other 30%....lol

I should insuure myself for death by life...easy money but I can't spend it...

Sorry Bob for being insulting.

But 'SIT-DOWN MONEY' could be used as an opportunity to advance yourself not as opportunity to become do nothing sitter.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you are in remote area, you can still borrow a book, magazine if you want that is.

My parents probably helped me to develop thirst for knowledge.
Even at young age I couldn’t understand why somebody would be loitering instead of going to library, going for a swim, run or play ball or learn something.

I loved to hang around when cars were repaired, I loved gardening as long as I can remember, it never ceased to amaze me how little seed can be packed with enough information to grow to a big tree.

Loved foreign languages, maths, geometry, and trigonometry.
I can still calculate manually length of diagonal of right angle triangle, goes for rectangle and square obviously. Sometimes at the age of powerful computers I still use it as party trick.

It all depends on taking at least partial responsibility for your life, not just being alive and waiting for government body to arrange it for you while collecting 'SIT-DOWN MONEY' or other concessions.

Happy said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you are in remote area, you can still borrow a book, magazine if you want that is.

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Stand corrected.
Some aboriginal communities still don't have water power or sewerage, or a police presence, or medical facilities.
A library or even a shop within cooee would be novel.
I wonder if Happy knows what kind of papers, magazines or books would interest people from these communities?
How about the Financial Review!

rederob said:

Stand corrected.
Some aboriginal communities still don't have water power or sewerage, or a police presence, or medical facilities.
A library or even a shop within cooee would be novel.
I wonder if Happy knows what kind of papers, magazines or books would interest people from these communities?
How about the Financial Review!

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You make a reasonable point,Rederob.

In discussion of this subject in the past you have shown knowledge of and familiarity with aboriginal communities. Could you share with us some suggestions for how you feel the lives of the people in those communities could be improved?

Bobby has suggested more or less that, instead of living in these remote communities, the people should be absorbed into more advantaged areas.
Do you agree with this? How do you think it would work?

How should the question of the extreme violence and sexual abuse be addressed?

Whilst there is criticism of aboriginal people receiving easier entry to university (this is alleged: I don't know if it actually happens or not), I am all for this if it offers them any possibility of improving their lives through acquiring an education. Then, on the basis that most people change their behaviour successfully through positive reinforcement rather than criticism, the success of those few might then encourage others to follow the same path. Some indigenous people are making their mark really successfully in professional and academic areas and thus setting a great example for others.

If any of us stop to think about it, how do we respond to constant criticism and negativity? Comments we all make from time to time like "aboriginal people are hopeless - they'll never amount to anything....." etc etc. are persistent. We see all the media images of drunken and violent individuals.
We rarely hear or see much about those indigenous people who have distinguished themselves in the other direction.

If I'm on the receiving end of constant disparagement, criticism and perjorative remarks, and never hear any encouragement or praise for any small achievement, sooner or later I will lose any confidence I may have had and believe only that I'm destined for failure in every sense. Most people behave as others expect them to.

I don't believe we should continue to provide housing for indigenous people when they have trashed an existing home. To do so teaches them nothing about taking responsibility. Neither do I think we should give them the dole without expecting something in return, even if it's just that they establish and care for a garden to grow vegetables for their community.
Giving anyone, white or black, money for doing nothing is guaranteed to strip that person of pride and challenge.

Julia

No Aborigional communities had running water, power, housing ect, 200 years ago so why do they need it now?....crucify me!

What they did have was thousands of years of culture, bush remedies and a law that seems strange to us these days but is not much different to the way we punished our own...a spear in the leg versus a flogging with a whip. there were no jails, you were just ostricised and left to fend for yourself, and usualy died from lack of the baisics.

One Aborigional mate told me that, in his Mob, to become a man you were beaten sensless and left alone in the desert for three days with no food or water, while an elder tracked and spied on you. If you died then you were 'no bloody good' and it made the Mob stronger as a result....it still goes on today behind a closed curtain. Strange and cuel you say? I recon it's not a bad idea. Strange and cruel is putting a bush Abbo in a box with bars when he'd rather be speared and beaten..possibly to die.

I just wonder what would have happened to Australia's Aborigionals if it had been taken over by the Indonesians, Japanese, or Chinese ect. as they are well known for thier more brutal rule. I don't think there would be many, if any, left at all.

There's good and bad in the Aborigional culture of today, and I can't see a bloke in a suit helping a bloke with a digerie-doo in any realy meaningful way as the two are too far separated in thier views, unless we beat the bloke in the suit senseless and put him out in the desert for three days to contemplate the fate of Aborigional Australia, and his demise a useful problem solving tool.

So ....what are you gonna do to help the Aborigional community today?....same as you did yesterday probably...nothing....go back to share trading and stop wasting your time on this thread if you havn't done something...that's my two cents....

Julia said:

Whilst there is criticism of aboriginal people receiving easier entry to university (this is alleged: I don't know if it actually happens or not), I am all for this if it offers them any possibility of improving their lives through acquiring an education. Then, on the basis that most people change their behaviour successfully through positive reinforcement rather than criticism, the success of those few might then encourage others to follow the same path. Some indigenous people are making their mark really successfully in professional and academic areas and thus setting a great example for others.

Julia

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Julia,you`ll find that when the kids fill in their subject selection forms for further education,theres a section where you can be considered for a scholarship,on the basis of aboriginality,or if your family has been receiving welfare ect,you actually have to fill in the form and justify how as a welfare recipient or as an aborigine, you have missed out on a chance to do your best ,achieving the relevant score for the subject that you want to take up at tafe or university.Of course if you are aboriginal and on welfare the chances that you qualify are doubled.

ABC said:

From ABC August 17, 2006
APY Lands families 'hungry 3 days a week'

Families are allegedly going without food for three days a week in the far north of South Australia because of the extreme cost of food in the area.
The Federal Government is spending $48 million to restructure outback stores to be more like Coles and Woolworths to lower the cost of food.
John Tregenza, a consultant for the Nganampa Health Council who helps manage eight stores in the Anangu Pitjantjatjarra Yankunytjatjara (APY) Lands, says many stores are already doing what they can to reduce costs.
He says people just are not given enough money to buy food in the first place.
"In the APY lands we call those days 'May Weir days'. It's the days when you don't have any food," he said.
"In most communities, the vast majority of people have those days at least three days a week."
Federal Indigenous Affairs Minister Mal Brough says a typical family of six children gets about $1,000 a week.
"The reality is that money is being spent on alcohol and drugs," he said.
Fruit can cost up to $3 a piece in the APY lands.

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Maybe food vouchers, or just tickets to feeding canteens and probably washing canteens can be given instead of ‘sit down money’.
This way alcoholic and/or drug adict parents cannot siphon money to support their habit.