Same sex marriage - Yes or No?

[Value Collector]

Do you have some examples of this actually happening ?

Businesses are there to make money,they will take all the money they can get.

I actually watched a show where people were talking about how hard it was to travel in the USA as a black person in the 1950's. you needed a special guide book to show you where you will be able eat, sleep, buy fuel and where doctors were that would treat you etc.

We don't want to have to go back to this,

Watch this at the 18 minute mark to see the book.



Watch this second video at the 10.45 mark, its one of Tina turner back up dances saying how they used to have to cook in their hotel rooms when travelling because most restaurants wouldn't serve them.

 

[SirRumpole]

You keep harking back to the 'old days'. I don't find your examples relevant to today.

I don't think we need a legal system to enforce 'fairness' these days, anyone who blatantly discriminates will be pilloried in the media and that is sufficient incentive not to do it imo.

 

[SirRumpole]

Agreed, they can serve who they like.

The reality is, if a cake shop refuses to serve someone because they are gay, there will be a social media sh!tstorm and they will lose business. 99.9% of businesses will just serve anyone who walks in anyway.

Exactly the point I 've just made.

 

[cynic]

The overcrowded, already stretched public school system will never 'take over' the parenting of the child. You are peddling a ridiculous fear campaign.



No it won't.

There was a time I might have agreed with your sentiments on this junior, but since viewing just a little of the deplorable "safe schools" programme content, I believe that the evidence of that alone, provides more than ample justification for holding fears about the direction in which our society might now be heading.

It's not an agenda to turn everyone gay. It's simply an issue of equality and inclusiveness. A positive change.

You might have bought the sales pitch, but I most certainly didn't!

One only needs to look to the polls, and the contents of these debates to see how much more divided our society has become as a result of this assault upon the long standing definition of the word "marriage".

I wasn't formerly homophobic, but events of recent years are beginning to incline me towards becoming so!

Furthermore, I am sickened, to god damned death, of being witness to so much heterophobic behaviour! Our society is becoming more divided, largely it seems, consequent to these concerted efforts, by minorities, to legally impose their elitist definition of "equality" on all and sundry! Hypocrisy, barely even begins to describe that which I am seeing.

Much like the blacks and women gained the same rights as everyone else, so too will homosexuals, and society will be better for it.

As I am sure has many times already been pointed out, homosexual adults were never denied the opportunity to actually marry!

It's just that marriage, by it's long standing dictionary definition, doesn't accommodate their perceived needs!

Unlike yourself, I cannot boldly claim to know whether or not "society will be better for it".

The widening rifts and vehement behaviours, catalysed from mere discussion of this topic, do seem to speak strongly against the beneficial outcome, to which you appear to have subscribed.

 

[Value Collector]

You keep harking back to the 'old days'. I don't find your examples relevant to today.

I don't think we need a legal system to enforce 'fairness' these days, anyone who blatantly discriminates will be pilloried in the media and that is sufficient incentive not to do it imo.

They are only considered the "old days", because the civil rights movement forced change.

What is the difference between a person saying they won't serve you because you are black and a person saying they won't serve you because they are gay?

Do you think its ok for businesses open to the public to not serve blacks?

 

[SirRumpole]

Do you think its ok for businesses open to the public to not serve blacks?

What I think is ok is irrelevant, I'm not a business owner. Some pubs around the country don't serve aboriginals because they are problem drinkers. Is that racist ?

Anyway, I refer you back to comments I and others have made about the bad publicity businesses will get if they discriminate. As someone else has said, if a business intended to discriminate against me for a particular reason I wouldn't want to go there anyway.

 

[Value Collector]

Some pubs around the country don't serve aboriginals because they are problem drinkers. Is that racist ?

Yes, if they are simply banning all aboriginals.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes, if they are simply banning all aboriginals.

I suggest being called racist is better than having your property smashed up by drunks.

 

[Value Collector]

I suggest being called racist is better than having your property smashed up by drunks.

Why not just ban individuals, why should an innocent aboriginal passing through on a road trip with family be denied a meal and a drink.

if you can't see that judging whole races on the actions of a few, I think you need to sort out some of your own issues.

either way, I am out of this conversation, I will leave the haters to fester in their own hate.

 

[SirRumpole]

if you can't see that judging whole races on the actions of a few, I think you need to sort out some of your own issues.

I don't have any issues thanks. I'm not saying what pubs do is right or wrong, they have a business to run so I suggest you take it up with them.

Where pubs ban aboriginals they usually have the support of the police who sometimes actually run the pubs. They are on the ground and know the situation and I'm not going to say they are wrong, because I don't have your all seeing patronism and belief in your own infallibility.

 

[Value Collector]

Where pubs ban aboriginals they usually have the support of the police who sometimes actually run the pubs.

I doubt you can provide an example of that

 

[SirRumpole]

I doubt you can provide an example of that

ADAM GILES, NT CHIEF MINISTER: We're seeing a reduction in wholesale consumption of alcohol and what we put that down to is more targeted or better targeted policing operations on the street in the Northern Territory since we've taken office.

MICHAEL COGGAN: In Alice Springs and regional towns where alcohol-fuelled violence is high, police stand guard outside bottle shops to check identification.

People living in dry Aboriginal communities or town camps aren't allowed to drink at home and face having alcohol seized.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s3957614.htm

 

[tech/a]

I doubt you can provide an example of that

Mate of mine Owns the Daly Waters Pub. (Just sold it new owners in Oct).
They are banned there.
They do go somewhere else.
There are lots of bottle shops and pubs in the NT and FNQ which wont serve them.
They are talking food stamps.


By the way we do a heap of work for the Gay community
They are great payers ( full incomes )
Great people never had an issue.
We get heaps of referrals.

 

[grah33]

Can someone give us a summary of the main issues dealt with, without any bias. Usually there is a winner in debating, or a draw.

In real debating an audience watches. If you get good answers that make sense but you keep knocking them back, you lose points. You will see the pros acknowledging good explanations. Also, some arguments are not worthy.

 

[Junior]

You might have bought the sales pitch, but I most certainly didn't!

...

Furthermore, I am sickened, to god damned death, of being witness to so much heterophobic behaviour! Our society is becoming more divided, largely it seems, consequent to these concerted efforts, by minorities, to legally impose their elitist definition of "equality" on all and sundry! Hypocrisy, barely even begins to describe that which I am seeing.

Who is issuing a sales pitch? Many groups on both sides are advertising their slogans and sales pitches to support their own agenda or beliefs.

Like many, I've come to my own belief and view on the issue.

The media, the ABC and many on the extreme left are certainly very loud on the topic and I'm sick to death of that as well. Likewise from many who are vehemently opposed to the change....also very loud and aggressive (see religious groups, Sky News, Abbott, Bernadi, some on this forum). Social Media masks the fact that the majority have their opinion and won't necessarily go on and on about it to anyone who will listen. I think most people just want to lodge their vote and see the Government honour the outcome. Then we can stop hearing about it (or hear less about it for now, at least).

The polls show that at the very least, near half of the population of this country support the change. This change has already happened throughout much of the Western world and Australia is lagging in that respect (incl. our close friends of Australia UK, US and NZ). That is why the voices are loud and relentless, it is an important issue to many people. It's not the minorities imposing an elitist view, it's much of the majority strongly supporting the view that this IS a matter of equality, not some fear campaign BS about trying to turn more people gay or destroy the traditional family unit.

 

[McLovin]

Can someone give us a summary of the main issues dealt with, without any bias. Usually there is a winner in debating, or a draw.

Right: Gay marriage will destroy society...

Left: No it won't, you homophobes...

The other 90%: How 'bout the footy finals...

The end.

 

[Value Collector]

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s3957614.htm

Your claim was that there are pubs that are run by police officers where aboriginals are banned.

do you have an example of one of them?

 

[Value Collector]

Mate of mine Owns the Daly Waters Pub. (Just sold it new owners in Oct).
They are banned there.
They do go somewhere else.

are you talking about this pub.
http://www.dalywaterspub.com

Because I just got off the phone with them and they said they haven't banned aboriginals.

But either way, is your mate a police officer? because rumpoles claim was that there are pubs owned by police officers that have banned aboriginals.

 

[tech/a]

Certainly is
Talk to Shane
Tell him your talking with JR.
They aren't going to tell you are they!
They just don't serve them booze.
As such they aren't there.

 

[Tink]

Junior,

I disagree, as Marriage is a man and a woman.

There is no equal status between a man and a woman, and two men/two women.

Civil unions gives them the exact same rights