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Tisme said:
These are actual, not attention seeking, not for publicity, not attempted:

38.3/100k of 85 year and over men of commit suicide (women 6.4)
25.5/100k of men between 40 and 44 commit suicide (women 9.4)
14.3/100k of males between 15 and 19 commit suicide (females 5.6)

overall 74.7% of them are males. The age standard rate is 10.7/100k and of that 16.3/100k are males and 5.4/100k for females.

The question is how many homosexuals are there.. say 400,000? How many who actually suicided were homosexuals in a typical year?
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We don't know, but I think you will find that the majority of suicides are those whose (hetero) marriages have broken down, farmers or businessmen who have gone bust or people with a mental illness in general.

To say that suicide is primarily a gay thing prompted by bullying is to over simplify the situation to absurdity.
 
The loss of hope, the loss of situation, unemployment, poverty, personal anguish, dealing with old age, dealing with illness, particular mental/social problems. Yep all part of the sadness of people ending their life.

The trauma/drama of dealing with disrespect and disgust because of ones sexuality is only one factor in the overall suicide rate. But if we choose as a society to not trash people because of their sexuality those people have a better life.
What is is the downside of such an action ? Is it also possible that respect /understanding for those differences will extend to our understanding and support of other stresses that people endure and improve their quality of life ?
 
basilio said:
What is is the downside of such an action ?
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The downside of letting radical homosexuals like Roz Ward getting into the vulnerable minds of 11 year olds is that they have their views distorted by people with a singular barrel to push that ignores all the other causes of potential bullying that may in fact pose a greater problem.

By all means point out gender confusion as a factor in bullying , but there are many others as I've pointed out before, so let us not get lost in one forest and ignore the others.
 
basilio said:
The loss of hope, the loss of situation, unemployment, poverty, personal anguish, dealing with old age, dealing with illness, particular mental/social problems. Yep all part of the sadness of people ending their life.

The trauma/drama of dealing with disrespect and disgust because of ones sexuality is only one factor in the overall suicide rate. But if we choose as a society to not trash people because of their sexuality those people have a better life.
What is is the downside of such an action ? Is it also possible that respect /understanding for those differences will extend to our understanding and support of other stresses that people endure and improve their quality of life ?
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A pathetic piece of paper isn't going to stop anyone trashing anyone basilio.

....and I wonder if anyone else noticed the astonishing irony/contradiction /hypocrisy in your position here.

As far as suicide is concerned, did you know veterinarians have four times the suicide rate of the general population, most of those in large animal practice... so if figures were isolated to large animal practitioners, the stats would be even more horrific.

In my own profession, stats are not kept, but anecdotally the numbers are substantively higher.... and nary a gay man to be seen.

So if I may stray of topic to make a point, what are you lefty luvvies gonna do for us?? Or doesn't that fit in your poisonous agenda?
 
Tisme said:
A bit of a pattern:

4.6% of teenagers between 14 and 19 reckon they are homosexuals
6.5% of twenty somethings reckon the same thing
4.3% of thirty somethings have figured out they are still gay
2.8% are clinging to the cause when they are in their 40s
1.7% are left by the time they are in their 50s, residual recruiters?

Born with it eh? Must be contagious in the 20's and gradual immunity kicks in after that?

Social conditioning means these actual figures are false by any definition, but heh
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There has probably always been the same percentage of gays, how ever now they can just live more openly, rather than pretend to be straight and live in love less relationships.

It's getting a lot easier for a teen to admit he is gay now than it was 50 years ago, I expect a large number of gays that are in their 50's and 60's now and did live as heterosexual, will just maintain the image for the wife and kids, and throw off the numbers.
 
wayneL said:
....and I wonder if anyone else noticed the astonishing irony/contradiction /hypocrisy in your position here.

As far as suicide is concerned, did you know veterinarians have four times the suicide rate of the general population, most of those in large animal practice... so if figures were isolated to large animal practitioners, the stats would be even more horrific.
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Are you against helping them?

There is nothing saying we can't assist people in multiple areas, but ignoring the specific problems of any group isn't going to help.

For example suicide is a huge problem among returned soldiers, these are my brothers, but I am not going to say we need to stop trying to help gays ( or veterinarians) we can focus on more than one group at once, just because we are doing certain things to help reduce the stigma associated with being LGBT doesn't mean we suddenly stop helping soldiers with ptsd or any other group.
 
That is a very long and tenuous bow to say a stupid piece of paper will stop them topping themself.... they already have 99% of that via civil union.

Puleeeze, if we want to help in that regard, we should be going down a completely different path.
 
Gringotts Bank said:
Not necessarily. If homosexuality is learned, one would expect such a drop away in prevalence with age. This would happen as a result of a natural insight into the sort of partners one attracts and how they have qualities of the same sex parent. It may become clear that attraction is based upon unmet subconscious needs from childhood.
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I don't know why there is a pattern and I'm sure a polarised argument could be made, but I can say I socialise with three relevant women who, oddly, had seven year lesbian relationships and all three lost interest and ended up with men. They are every open about their love lifes, but in real life I'm a great listener and I don't judge ... that is what forums and the social sheriffs who inhabit them are for LOL .

I have an obviously bent niece who, of her own choosing, manages to hide her relationships from the family and started off dating boys.

Counter balancing that I remember back in 1989 and a gruff middle aged consulting engineer who seemed to hate everyone and everyone hated him in Brisbane and beyond; I'm one of those people who's too dosey to do the crowd bidding. He invited me to his flat just around the corner from the office to discuss some leading edge technology he needed for a an island development. We had a couple of long necks, had some laughs and that was that, until about four months later and he turned up my offices and he looked worried. His soul mate had gone to Sydney and he was heartbroken. My advice was to follow him and he did and he thanked me later for being a confidante.

Often one to attend parties in New Farm where I have real estate, and being New Farm is like camp central, I actually do associate with many queers and sisters and yes we are happy social friends, which is why I like to ask how it is that so many people on the YES campaign maintain they have "friends" who are gay, yet the odds don't stack up. If they did have so many friends who are gay, how come they don't admit that many of them don't give a fig about marriage rights and openly admit to a preference of promiscuity compared to monogamy.

My concern with social conditioning is why so many people who obviously have no real insight into the sisters and brothers scene, are so eager to bang the drum. As a marketing tragic, I recognise the various methods being used to develop brand hysteria, but I am in awe that brand fatigue hasn't kicked in yet.... which I suppose is because there are a lot of suppressed protesters looking for a cause
 
Who said marriage was compulsory Tisme ? Who says many gays arn't sexually active ( as are many non gays ) ? I wouldn't.
I'd also agree that on the whole gay people are more sexually active than straight people.
That has zilch to do with allowing gay people who wish get married to get married. They want to make a public long term committment to their partner. Fine. Other people don't. Also fine.

I can recognise your cynicism as a marketing tragic. Perhaps on this issue it is a simpler case of many people recognising that all consenting adults in civil society should have the opportunity to be married if they wish. In the past particular religious and social conventions wouldn't accept such an idea. But times have changed
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The issue of suicide in our community. Anyone heard of Beyond Blue ? Life line ? Mens Sheds ? Then there are a score of particular organistion that focus on youth, older people, retruned soldiers, men, women. As far as the professions go I understand dentists, doctors, psychiatrists are also over represented in suicide stats.

So what is the problem with recognising that LGBTI people need and deserve support ?
 
wayneL said:
That is a very long and tenuous bow to say a stupid piece of paper will stop them topping themself.... they already have 99% of that via civil union.

Puleeeze, if we want to help in that regard, we should be going down a completely different path.
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The conversation about suicide rates started because Rumpole brought up the safe schools program, I wasn't just commenting on marriage rights.

But yes, equal marriage rights is part of the bigger picture to help reduce the stigma, and get society to accept these relationships for what they are, as I have said before gay marriages already exist, its just about getting the government to recognise them.



 
Tisme said:
My concern with social conditioning is why so many people who obviously have no real insight into the sisters and brothers scene, are so eager to bang the drum.
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Interesting post thanks.

I can answer this part. These drum-bangers are people who want to feel that their own particular issues and insecurities (whatever they might be) will be accepted in the community. It belies low self-esteem. Acceptance is so important in life, isn't it? I think it's good to promote it.
 
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Gringotts Bank said:
Acceptance is so important in life, isn't it? I think it's good to promote it.
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Rejection is a part of life which shapes who we are in many ways. The reality (via observation & experience) is people do not accept each other for many reasons. Tossing a tantrum through to being violent with someone for being rejected leads to further rejection, restriction and conflict. Sooner or later we learn to accept other people don't want us personally or our goods and services and we move on. Some people believe persistence will overcome rejection and waste many years in attempts to sway individuals and groups into accepting them. Yes handling rejection is something we all do in different ways when it is simply best to accept it and move on.
 
Pyne and Birmingham into "oriface" politics:

Indeed, it appears that Australia is entering into a Brave New LGBTI World dominated by orifice politics, courtesy of a federal Coalition government so desperate to suck up to the progressivist elites that it is happy to sacrifice the physical and mental health of a generation of young Australians.
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Despite her power and influence, Ward’s academic qualifications are very basic. She doesn’t possess a doctorate or any qualifications in medicine, but holds only a BA (Hons), and an MA in Gender Studies from the University of Sussex in the UK.
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https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2016/03/dumb-sodomy-cash/
 
On the subject of youth suicide, I heard of a school in Melbourne who had a number of students who actually took their own lives because they couldn't achieve the academic results that their parents wanted.

I wonder where there this sort of thing is discussed in the "Safe Schools" program ?
 
SirRumpole said:
On the subject of youth suicide, I heard of a school in Melbourne who had a number of students who actually took their own lives because they couldn't achieve the academic results that their parents wanted.

I wonder where there this sort of thing is discussed in the "Safe Schools" program ?
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Was it because they were gay and the principal wouldn't let them marry? Cos if it's gay related it's a serious issue that needs a whole statewide reeducation program to punish the straight students of their heartless ambivalence.
 
The founder and coordinator of the Safe Schools Coalition Australia (SSCA) is an avowed Marxist who lives in a fantasy world where communism supports free love and LGBTI lifestyles. The ascension of Roz Ward to the position of sexuality commissar for Australian schools is therefore an unforgivable indictment of federal and state governments.
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Two points to a trend line. Yassmin (Islam is the most feminist religion) Abdel-Magied promotion to speaker of all that is soothing and now Roz (I don't have a homosexual agenda) Ward calling shots on the education of Australian children.

note - the article is from March 2016..
 

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