Resisting Climate Hysteria

[noco]

I agree Wayne.

It will not be the first nor the last time the majority of the Scientific Community was wrong.

This Global Warming phenomenon is taking on the characteristics of a religion. And we all know that religions always end in tears.

gg

I agree too GG.....Good to see you back again.

 

[wayneL]

Here's my consistent point, if we are going to be scientific, lets be scientific.

Let's use proper scientific process.

If we measure stuff, lets just measure it and not adjust it.

If we provide public funding, it should be equally available to any reasonable hypothesis, not just the one that supports current political expediency

If we debate hypotheses, lets not use emotive, historically emotion charged terms suxh as denier.

Let's let the fact stand as sentinel to reason. let's not be biased by omission or torturing facts into submission.

Accordingly, we are right to study climate change, but we are not right to massage the fact s for a political totalitarian agenda.

 

[luutzu]

I love it. You clowns hawk the science (no matter how flawed), and then use totally inappropriate, unscientific and absolutely ludicrous analogies.

No wonder you are struggling for hearts and minds.

It's for illustrative purposes Sifu. Scale that bag over our head to an entire planet and see if it'll have a similar effect. Or take a drive with your windows down in a busy city during peak hour traffic. Or maybe move next to a coal mine, or an industrial area, or down a few block from oil refineries.

Oh look, CO2 is essential for life, so more of the essentials is good for life, right? What a load of bs. That's like saying that since water is essential for life, more flood and more hurricane is great for life.

Yup, human could not possibly have any impact on the planet. Except for that hole in the Ozone where CFC chemicals were thought by scientists to rip a couple of holes, rich White politicians with homes by the ocean thought skin cancer will kill them too so let's take scientists recommendation and oh look! Doing what scientists recommended is having an impact. Who would have thought!

But Climate Change... it'll only kill the poor, starve them, cause frequent flooding, mudslides, drought, war and famine. That's life and we rich people get our food from the supermarkets anyway so who cares.

Yes yes, I'm exaggerating.

 

[luutzu]

Here's my consistent point, if we are going to be scientific, lets be scientific.

Let's use proper scientific process.

If we measure stuff, lets just measure it and not adjust it.

If we provide public funding, it should be equally available to any reasonable hypothesis, not just the one that supports current political expediency

If we debate hypotheses, lets not use emotive, historically emotion charged terms suxh as denier.

Let's let the fact stand as sentinel to reason. let's not be biased by omission or torturing facts into submission.

Accordingly, we are right to study climate change, but we are not right to massage the fact s for a political totalitarian agenda.

Do you live behind the looking glass or something Sifu?

Is Australia's main energy sector comprised of Green and Clean tech companies? Or dominated by the miners, oilers and frackers? Who do you think have more political sway and have their agendas carried out by politicians?

Unless you seriously believe that we're a real democracy being run by the Greens party and a bunch of hippies.

It's the same all over the world. The only exception, as far as big economies is concern.. .would be China and India. Their gov't are pushing for more clean and reweables because they've tried the coal and fossil and pollution doesn't matter approach and death and cancer and dead rivers and smoggy cities are telling them that it's not a good idea.

Anywho... let's do science our way and get the results we like.

 

[wayneL]

Grasshopper, I also think we (you) should eschew the liberal use of logical fallacy.

It is self serving, bloats one's own ego, and does not help the debate forward.

 

[luutzu]

Grasshopper, I also think we (you) should eschew the liberal use of logical fallacy.

It is self serving, bloats one's own ego, and does not help the debate forward.

Logically speaking, for the ecosystem to remain un-impacted by human activities, for every tree that's cut down there must be an equivalent tree grown somewhere.

So when we clear trees and forests, pave over it with roads and houses and buildings; does this all over the world and in most of its most habitable areas.. then further pump toxic into the air, drain waste into rivers etc. etc...

Logically, without needing to refer to data or science, any idiot can tell you that such human activities have a negative impact on the environment and its ecosystems.

So that's common sense. What does the experts and their research say?

Oh, they all say it's bad and will get worst... but they're all wrong.

So much for logic and science.

 

[ghotib]

It does seem the sheet ice cover is disappearing fast. Is there any figures of % loss of total ice (includes all that under sea level?

I noticed that you were interested in "below sea level" change in Arctic sea ice so I thought I'd post this link to the PIOMAS Arctic Sea Ice volume reanalysis page as well as the graphic (figure 2) showing mean volume 1979-2016 and daily volume from 2010 to date. The page has info about how the figures are calculated and validated and about the uncertainties.

Grey shaded areas are one and two standard deviations.

 

[Tisme]

Here's my consistent point, if we are going to be scientific, lets be scientific.

Let's use proper scientific process.

If we measure stuff, lets just measure it and not adjust it.

If we provide public funding, it should be equally available to any reasonable hypothesis, not just the one that supports current political expediency

If we debate hypotheses, lets not use emotive, historically emotion charged terms suxh as denier.

Let's let the fact stand as sentinel to reason. let's not be biased by omission or torturing facts into submission.

Accordingly, we are right to study climate change, but we are not right to massage the fact s for a political totalitarian agenda.

If you used that argument for road safety we would have less road congestion, higher speed limits and less revenue raising speed traps.....driving would be a pleasure rather than punishment.

 

[basilio]

Current Consequences of global warming

Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
No seeds were lost but the ability of the rock vault to provide failsafe protection against all disasters is now threatened by climate change



The Svalbard ‘doomsday’ seed vault was built to protect millions of food crops from climate change, wars and natural disasters. Photograph: John Mcconnico/AP

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19,275

Damian Carrington Environment editor


Saturday 20 May 2017 01.39 AEST Last modified on Saturday 20 May 2017 07.00 AEST

It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel.

The vault is on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen and contains almost a million packets of seeds, each a variety of an important food crop. When it was opened in 2008, the deep permafrost through which the vault was sunk was expected to provide “failsafe” protection against “the challenge of natural or man-made disasters”.

But soaring temperatures in the Arctic at the end of the world’s hottest ever recorded year led to melting and heavy rain, when light snow should have been falling. “It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” said Hege Njaa Aschim, from the Norwegian government, which owns the vault.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...f-worlds-seeds-flooded-after-permafrost-melts

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Current Consequences of global warming

Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
No seeds were lost but the ability of the rock vault to provide failsafe protection against all disasters is now threatened by climate change



The Svalbard ‘doomsday’ seed vault was built to protect millions of food crops from climate change, wars and natural disasters. Photograph: John Mcconnico/AP

Shares
19,275

Damian Carrington Environment editor


Saturday 20 May 2017 01.39 AEST Last modified on Saturday 20 May 2017 07.00 AEST

It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel.

The vault is on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen and contains almost a million packets of seeds, each a variety of an important food crop. When it was opened in 2008, the deep permafrost through which the vault was sunk was expected to provide “failsafe” protection against “the challenge of natural or man-made disasters”.

But soaring temperatures in the Arctic at the end of the world’s hottest ever recorded year led to melting and heavy rain, when light snow should have been falling. “It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” said Hege Njaa Aschim, from the Norwegian government, which owns the vault.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...f-worlds-seeds-flooded-after-permafrost-melts

Well they obviously didn't build it very well for weather events.

What a mob of tossers.

More Government money wasted.

gg

 

[basilio]

Well they obviously didn't build it very well for weather events.

What a mob of tossers.

More Government money wasted.

gg

You folks are so far up the Nile...
The relevant point was the completely off the chart summer temperatures due to global warming which caused the melt.

The other point that you and Cynic also make with excellent effect is how far climate change deniers can go in refusing to recognise what is happening.

 

[cynic]

You folks are so far up the Nile...
The relevant point was the completely off the chart summer temperatures due to global warming which caused the melt.

The other point that you and Cynic also make with excellent effect is how far climate change deniers can go in refusing to recognise what is happening.

According to that Guardian news article:

"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster..."

And a little bit of ice melt somehow thwarted their "impregnable" design!!

Who is in denial now?!!

 

[luutzu]

According to that Guardian news article:

"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster..."

And a little bit of ice melt somehow thwarted their "impregnable" design!!

Who is in denial now?!!

Soooo... an extreme weather event that were not expected, thought to not be possible in a million years, did happen in a lot less years than that. But the takeaway lesson from this failure is that scientists and government are inept and wrong, not that maybe, perhaps, somewhat likely that they're wrong in not being more "alarmist" - that things could actually be a whole lot worst than the current climate science community thought it would.

That's quite an imagination.

It's like saying that we don't need proper engineering on bridges because a bridge designed for normal cars and trucks collapsed when a couple of jumbo jets smash into it.

 

[cynic]

Soooo... an extreme weather event that were not expected, thought to not be possible in a million years, did happen in a lot less years than that. But the takeaway lesson from this failure is that scientists and government are inept and wrong, not that maybe, perhaps, somewhat likely that they're wrong in not being more "alarmist" - that things could actually be a whole lot worst than the current climate science community thought it would.

That's quite an imagination.

It's like saying that we don't need proper engineering on bridges because a bridge designed for normal cars and trucks collapsed when a couple of jumbo jets smash into it.

Phrases like "from any global disaster", "natural or man-made disasters" seem to have totally (and conveniently) escaped your attention.

Quite typical of the desperate lengths alarmists will go to in order to misinterpret, virtually any, weather event or human blunder, as somehow constituting "evidence" supportive of their apocalyptic ideology.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

You folks are so far up the Nile...
The relevant point was the completely off the chart summer temperatures due to global warming which caused the melt.

The other point that you and Cynic also make with excellent effect is how far climate change deniers can go in refusing to recognise what is happening.

The whole idea behind building the seed box was to deal with any weather event. Any !!

gg

 

[noco]

The truth about C02.

 

[explod]

Carbon monoxide poisoning is the most common type of fatal air poisoning in many countries.[17] Carbon monoxide is colorless, odorless and tasteless, but highly toxic. It combines with hemoglobin to produce carboxyhemoglobin, which is ineffective for delivering oxygen to bodily tissues. In 2011, 52% of carbon monoxide emissions were created by mobile vehicles in the U.S.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas

What we are concerned about is all bad

 

[wayneL]

Current Consequences of global warming

Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
No seeds were lost but the ability of the rock vault to provide failsafe protection against all disasters is now threatened by climate change



The Svalbard ‘doomsday’ seed vault was built to protect millions of food crops from climate change, wars and natural disasters. Photograph: John Mcconnico/AP

Shares
19,275

Damian Carrington Environment editor


Saturday 20 May 2017 01.39 AEST Last modified on Saturday 20 May 2017 07.00 AEST

It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel.

The vault is on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen and contains almost a million packets of seeds, each a variety of an important food crop. When it was opened in 2008, the deep permafrost through which the vault was sunk was expected to provide “failsafe” protection against “the challenge of natural or man-made disasters”.

But soaring temperatures in the Arctic at the end of the world’s hottest ever recorded year led to melting and heavy rain, when light snow should have been falling. “It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” said Hege Njaa Aschim, from the Norwegian government, which owns the vault.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...f-worlds-seeds-flooded-after-permafrost-melts

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2017/05/21/guardians-seed-nonsense/

The temperature record at Svalbard Airport only goes back to 1977, but the nearest long running station is at Tromo on the north coast of Norway.

Annual temperatures there were just as high in the 1930s.

https://data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/STATIONS/tmp_634010250000_7_0_1/station.png



In particular, winter temperatures have been as high, and even higher, many times since 1921.

https://data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/STATIONS/tmp_634010250000_1_0/station.txt



At Svalbard itself, the winter of 1985 was actually milder than this year’s.

But facts never bother the Guardian or its readers.
The temperature record at Svalbard Airport only goes back to 1977, but the nearest long running station is at Tromo on the north coast of Norway.

 

[Knobby22]

The article does seem strange.
It rained in winter and flooded.
Surely in summer it would flood also when the snow melts? Possibly it was in an area where snow was constant?

On the other hand Svalbard Airport is no where near Troms.
So I would argue that measurements from there aren't very applicable.

 

[wayneL]

If not Knobby, you are arguing for regional variations rather that global trends