Resisting Climate Hysteria

[noco]

No wind there either?

Yeah but what about all that 100% solar and wind you mentioned in Europe?

Was it all wind on your part...Hope it is not giving you a belly ache.

 

[basilio]

Just can't let you have all the fun here Luutzu. The inestimable opportunity of discussing the deep uncertainties of the uncertain fundamentals of metaphysical infinity.
Not to mention Noco's concern about the cost of renewable energy soaring into the stratosphere as all available sources of silicon (sand ..) are put into the servitude of the Green Gospellers.

Unfortunately I can't touch Cynic grasp of the metaphysical infinite so we'll let be.

However as for the cost of renewable energy Energy Past, Present and Future - let's see

The Price of Solar Is Declining to Unprecedented Lows
Despite already low costs, the installed price of solar fell by 5 to 12 percent in 2015

• By Robert Fares on August 27, 2016

Credit: MARUFISH Flickr (CC BY-SA 2.0)
The installed price of solar energy has declined significantly in recent years as policy and market forces have driven more and more solar installations.

Now, the latest data show that the continued decrease in solar prices is unlikely to slow down anytime soon, with total installed prices dropping by 5 percent for rooftop residential systems, and 12 percent for larger utility-scale solar farms. With solar already achieving record-low prices, the cost decline observed in 2015 indicates that the coming years will likely see utility-scale solar become cost competitive with conventional forms of electricity generation. (and please keep reading. It's worth expanding your knowledge)
https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...-of-solar-is-declining-to-unprecedented-lows/

_______________________________________________
IRENA forecasts 59% solar PV price reduction by 2025
New report from the International Renewable Energy Agency suggests that the average cost for electricity generated by solar PV could decrease by as much as 59% by 2025 compared to 2015 prices.

June 15, 2016 Ian Clover

A report released today by the Abu Dhabi-headquartered International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) has projected a 59% cost reduction for electricity generated by solar PV by 2025.

The report, titled The Power to Change: Solar and Wind Cost Reduction Potential to 2025, suggests that solar – nurtured by the right regulatory frameworks and policy – can achieve huge reductions in cost over the next decade, bringing the global average price per kilowatt hour (kWh) to between $0.05 – $0.06.

IRENA states that solar PV module prices have fallen roughly 80% since 2009, and with every doubling of installed capacity module costs plunge a further 20% thanks to economies of scale and the types of performance and efficiency improvements currently being seen. (and it gets better...)

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2016/06...9-solar-pv-price-reduction-by-2025_100024986/

___________________________________________________________
And what to do when the SUN don't shine ??

Despite the hype, batteries aren’t the cheapest way to store energy on the grid
December 2, 2016 5.50am AEDT
Batteries may be a good way to store energy in the home. Battery image from www.shutterstoc.com
Author

1. Roger Dargaville
   Deputy Director, Melbourne Energy Institute, University of Melbourne
   

Disclosure statement
Roger Dargaville has received funding from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency

Partners

University of Melbourne provides funding as a founding partner of The Conversation AU.

The Australian government is reviewing our electricity market to make sure it can provide secure and reliable power in a rapidly changing world. Faced with the rise of renewable energy and limits on carbon pollution, The Conversation has asked experts what kind of future awaits the grid.

Storage is the word of the moment in the energy industry. Since Tesla unveiled its Powerwall, politicians, commentators and industry have hyped storage – and particularly batteries – as the solution for getting more renewable energy into electricity grids and reducing our reliance on fossil fuels.

The concept of storage is simple. A storage system takes power off the grid or from a local generation source and puts it back onto the grid or uses it locally later. It seems like a good idea if you have too much energy, or it is cheap at some times of the day and expensive at others.

So could storage be the answer, and how much would it cost? (and it's a really informative analysis - but only if one wants to be informed. And anyway Smurf does it so much better.)

https://theconversation.com/despite...heapest-way-to-store-energy-on-the-grid-68417

 

[cynic]

If you aren't so serious, I'd thought you're screwing with me.
....

Ohhhhh... it's made everyday deep under 4 miles of granite.

Let's say that's true. Where in the world do you get enough diamond encrusted drill bits to go through that? Maybe takeover Russia and liberate its industrial-grade diamond mine some asteroid created a while back?
...

From your post I can see that you are either, pretending to, or have, completely failed to, understand the significance of the discovery of a quantity of oil in that location. I trust that you were taught the true extent of the Earth's mantle at school.

...
Maybe I'm just lazy and stupid, but doesn't the sun shine pretty much everywhere, at ground level? Are there places where wind don't blow either?

---------

energy created and transformed...

yea, it's transformed into kinetic energy; heat and CO2. No?

Pretty sure I remember HS physics correctly.

Anywho

No. The various contents of your response, strongly suggest a need for you to refresh your understanding of basic geology, chemistry and physics.

 

[luutzu]

Yeah but what about all that 100% solar and wind you mentioned in Europe?

Was it all wind on your part...Hope it is not giving you a belly ache.

Wind power generates 140% of Denmark's electricity demand
"
So much power was produced by Denmark’s windfarms on Thursday that the country was able to meet its domestic electricity demand and export power to Norway, Germany and Sweden.

On an unusually windy day, Denmark found itself producing 116% of its national electricity needs from wind turbines yesterday evening. By 3am on Friday, when electricity demand dropped, that figure had risen to 140%.

Interconnectors allowed 80% of the power surplus to be shared equally between Germany and Norway, which can store it in hydropower systems for use later. Sweden took the remaining fifth of excess power."

lotsa wind here.

 

[luutzu]

From your post I can see that you are either, pretending to, or have, completely failed to, understand the significance of the discovery of a quantity of oil in that location. I trust that you were taught the true extent of the Earth's mantle at school.


No. The various contents of your response, strongly suggest a need for you to refresh your understanding of basic geology, chemistry and physics.

Will a 4mile thick plate of granite under all that pressure be as easy to drill through as the same granite at ground atmospheric pressure?

I'd imagine it'll take a lot of work (read expensive) to drill through miles and miles of granite to get to that oil. But I guess you'd only need to drill once since oil is always produced at that depth. Right

Again, drill for miles and miles baby... or... or just take in the sun at ground level.

Hmmmm... the Sun will one day die and is thus not infinite. True.

But the Earth can infinitely produce oil. Also true?

I was never that good at physics or chemistry anyway. It's a bit like listening to the Murdoch media and churn out crap. Crap goes in, crap goes out.

 

[luutzu]

Just can't let you have all the fun here Luutzu. The inestimable opportunity of discussing the deep uncertainties of the uncertain fundamentals of metaphysical infinity.
Not to mention Noco's concern about the cost of renewable energy soaring into the stratosphere as all available sources of silicon (sand ..) are put into the servitude of the Green Gospellers.

Unfortunately I can't touch Cynic grasp of the metaphysical infinite so we'll let be.

However as for the cost of renewable energy Energy Past, Present and Future - let's see

The Price of Solar Is Declining to Unprecedented Lows
Despite already low costs, the installed price of solar fell by 5 to 12 percent in 2015

• By Robert Fares on August 27, 2016

Credit: MARUFISH Flickr (CC BY-SA 2.0)
The installed price of solar energy has declined significantly in recent years as policy and market forces have driven more and more solar installations.

Now, the latest data show that the continued decrease in solar prices is unlikely to slow down anytime soon, with total installed prices dropping by 5 percent for rooftop residential systems, and 12 percent for larger utility-scale solar farms. With solar already achieving record-low prices, the cost decline observed in 2015 indicates that the coming years will likely see utility-scale solar become cost competitive with conventional forms of electricity generation. (and please keep reading. It's worth expanding your knowledge)
https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...-of-solar-is-declining-to-unprecedented-lows/

_______________________________________________
IRENA forecasts 59% solar PV price reduction by 2025
New report from the International Renewable Energy Agency suggests that the average cost for electricity generated by solar PV could decrease by as much as 59% by 2025 compared to 2015 prices.

June 15, 2016 Ian Clover

A report released today by the Abu Dhabi-headquartered International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) has projected a 59% cost reduction for electricity generated by solar PV by 2025.

The report, titled The Power to Change: Solar and Wind Cost Reduction Potential to 2025, suggests that solar – nurtured by the right regulatory frameworks and policy – can achieve huge reductions in cost over the next decade, bringing the global average price per kilowatt hour (kWh) to between $0.05 – $0.06.

IRENA states that solar PV module prices have fallen roughly 80% since 2009, and with every doubling of installed capacity module costs plunge a further 20% thanks to economies of scale and the types of performance and efficiency improvements currently being seen. (and it gets better...)

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2016/06...9-solar-pv-price-reduction-by-2025_100024986/

___________________________________________________________
And what to do when the SUN don't shine ??

Despite the hype, batteries aren’t the cheapest way to store energy on the grid
December 2, 2016 5.50am AEDT
Batteries may be a good way to store energy in the home. Battery image from www.shutterstoc.com
Author

1. Roger Dargaville
   Deputy Director, Melbourne Energy Institute, University of Melbourne

Disclosure statement
Roger Dargaville has received funding from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency

Partners

University of Melbourne provides funding as a founding partner of The Conversation AU.

The Australian government is reviewing our electricity market to make sure it can provide secure and reliable power in a rapidly changing world. Faced with the rise of renewable energy and limits on carbon pollution, The Conversation has asked experts what kind of future awaits the grid.

Storage is the word of the moment in the energy industry. Since Tesla unveiled its Powerwall, politicians, commentators and industry have hyped storage – and particularly batteries – as the solution for getting more renewable energy into electricity grids and reducing our reliance on fossil fuels.

The concept of storage is simple. A storage system takes power off the grid or from a local generation source and puts it back onto the grid or uses it locally later. It seems like a good idea if you have too much energy, or it is cheap at some times of the day and expensive at others.

So could storage be the answer, and how much would it cost? (and it's a really informative analysis - but only if one wants to be informed. And anyway Smurf does it so much better.)

https://theconversation.com/despite...heapest-way-to-store-energy-on-the-grid-68417

Way too much good info there Basilio. Cynic and noco will have a field day disputing them.

Well... noco will just blame it on UN and Watermelon propaganda; Cynic will call our Pope to verify.

 

[explod]

You obviously have not watched the various videos I have presented this week, instead you continue to follow the Green bible.

How do you know I have not carefully watched your films?

How do you know I follow "the green bible" and what is it. I follow my own observations and common sense as do most people which is why the majority of western educated people are concerned (not hysterical) about climate change.

I feel noco that you should seek a hill without cloud where the wind blows to fly your kite. Cloud does not cut out solar:

The thicker the clouds, the less power the system will produce. Yet when the sun shines through the clouds,solar panels still get direct sunlight plus light reflected from the clouds. Amazingly, you can get more solarenergy out of a cloudy day than a sunny one!Feb 3, 2015

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=....69i57j0l2.20423j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[cynic]

Will a 4mile thick plate of granite under all that pressure be as easy to drill through as the same granite at ground atmospheric pressure?

I'd imagine it'll take a lot of work (read expensive) to drill through miles and miles of granite to get to that oil. But I guess you'd only need to drill once since oil is always produced at that depth. Right

Again, drill for miles and miles baby... or... or just take in the sun at ground level.

Hmmmm... the Sun will one day die and is thus not infinite. True.

But the Earth can infinitely produce oil. Also true?

I was never that good at physics or chemistry anyway. It's a bit like listening to the Murdoch media and churn out crap. Crap goes in, crap goes out.

I know my posts can often be a little too verbose. Perhaps you have genuinely misunderstood, but I am beginning to suspect, that your persistent misrepresentations, of the significance of the discovery of oil in that particular location, might be deliberate.

Either way, my preference is that you desist from these misconstrances, to which I am alerting you, as I am finding them annoying and cannot see any benefit arising from there continuance.

I do not blame anyone for being distrustful of diverse media sources, whether they be mainstream or other, but I do object to misrepresentation of statements made, by myself and others, even moreso when those misrepresentations are discovered to be deliberate.

If you are truly seeking to understand, I recommend that you carefully reread that particular news article.

If you've already decided to distrust everything said by a particular media outlet, then by all means challenge the content, and any conclusions drawn, should you feel so inclined.

However, in doing so, it is important to take care to understand what was said, so that it isn't misconstrued.

 

[noco]

Wind power generates 140% of Denmark's electricity demand
"
So much power was produced by Denmark’s windfarms on Thursday that the country was able to meet its domestic electricity demand and export power to Norway, Germany and Sweden.

On an unusually windy day, Denmark found itself producing 116% of its national electricity needs from wind turbines yesterday evening. By 3am on Friday, when electricity demand dropped, that figure had risen to 140%.

Interconnectors allowed 80% of the power surplus to be shared equally between Germany and Norway, which can store it in hydropower systems for use later. Sweden took the remaining fifth of excess power."

lotsa wind here.

Luu, it obviously is an exceptional case for a few days but it is not really consistent day after day.

I noted in your link the following :-

A surge in windfarm installations means Denmark could be producing half of its electricity from renewable sources well before a target date of 2020, according to Kees van der Leun, the chief commercial officer of the Ecofys energy consultancy.

And how many millions of birds have been killed in the meantime by those ugly swirling blades?

 

[noco]

How do you know I have not carefully watched your films?

How do you know I follow "the green bible" and what is it. I follow my own observations and common sense as do most people which is why the majority of western educated people are concerned (not hysterical) about climate change.

I feel noco that you should seek a hill without cloud where the wind blows to fly your kite. Cloud does not cut out solar:



https://www.google.com.au/search?q=....69i57j0l2.20423j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Firstly, you have admitted on several occasions that you are a Greenie.

Secondly, I suggested you had not watched those videos because still keep coming back with this Global Warming nonsense.

 

[Ves]

And how many millions of birds have been killed in the meantime by those ugly swirling blades?

Dunno, but probably far less than things like power lines, vehicles, aeroplanes and a whole range of man made structures.

Probably just ignore those because it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

[Junior]

Many people out there clearly fear change, and the advancement of the human race. Politicians and all other manner of outdated folk can argue the benefits of coal all they want, meanwhile, in the real world, big corporations long ago saw the many benefits of renewable energy and have been transitioning away from fossil fuel for years....this continues, regardless of climate change sceptics, and 'coal is good for humanity' propaganda advertisements on Sky News channel.

Think about electric cars for example. How could you possibly not see the benefits of being able to walk through the CBD of Sydney or Melbourne for example, without even the slightest whiff of exhaust fumes?? Is that not something to be enthusiastic about? It's technology, and it will continue to evolve at a rapid pace. You can either embrace it, or be dragged into that future kicking and screaming.

These same people would have been arguing against the adoption of coal for electricity generation back in the late 1800s.... 'I'm perfectly happy, with my kerosene lanterns.....electricity is the devil'.

 

[noco]

More facts about about the great Global Warming hoax.

 

[luutzu]

Luu, it obviously is an exceptional case for a few days but it is not really consistent day after day.

I noted in your link the following :-

A surge in windfarm installations means Denmark could be producing half of its electricity from renewable sources well before a target date of 2020, according to Kees van der Leun, the chief commercial officer of the Ecofys energy consultancy.

And how many millions of birds have been killed in the meantime by those ugly swirling blades?

Maybe it's to show that on some day there are little or no wind, on others the unusually high wind make up for those?

Save the Birds. Stuffed the children, and the poor, and other birds, and wildlife getting cooked in bushfires, or floods and storm.

Come on noco.

 

[luutzu]

I know my posts can often be a little too verbose. Perhaps you have genuinely misunderstood, but I am beginning to suspect, that your persistent misrepresentations, of the significance of the discovery of oil in that particular location, might be deliberate.

Either way, my preference is that you desist from these misconstrances, to which I am alerting you, as I am finding them annoying and cannot see any benefit arising from there continuance.

I do not blame anyone for being distrustful of diverse media sources, whether they be mainstream or other, but I do object to misrepresentation of statements made, by myself and others, even moreso when those misrepresentations are discovered to be deliberate.

If you are truly seeking to understand, I recommend that you carefully reread that particular news article.

If you've already decided to distrust everything said by a particular media outlet, then by all means challenge the content, and any conclusions drawn, should you feel so inclined.

However, in doing so, it is important to take care to understand what was said, so that it isn't misconstrued.

Here's another idea: set up a few solar panel, pretty much anywhere at ground level.

Maybe leave those "oil" under its miles of granite. Who knows, maybe God intended it to be there so as to keep the Earth's gear moving.

 

[noco]

Maybe it's to show that on some day there are little or no wind, on others the unusually high wind make up for those?

Save the Birds. Stuffed the children, and the poor, and other birds, and wildlife getting cooked in bushfires, or floods and storm.

Come on noco.

So much for the Greenies concern about the environment.......Don't worry that there may be some rare species being killed......You know the ones the Greenies use to stop the building of dams etc.
http://savetheeaglesinternational.o...10-20-times-more-than-previously-thought.html

 

[cynic]

Here's another idea: set up a few solar panel, pretty much anywhere at ground level.

Maybe leave those "oil" under its miles of granite. Who knows, maybe God intended it to be there so as to keep the Earth's gear moving.

I realise that my criticisms probably make it sound like I am totally opposed to the use of alternative energy.

That's not quite the message that I am trying to convey here. What I am trying to convey, is that there are at least a few more things that might merit consideration before attempting to completely transform our world.

Some of the issues I am raising may prove to have negligible impact, and turn out to be needless concerns, and then again, perhaps some of those concerns will prove valid.

The same applies to my concerns about the soundness of the claims about AGW and the possibility that CO2 is being unreasonably demonised. I believe that available energy sources, which give rise to CO2 emissions, whether alternative or current, shouldn't be excluded from consideration, until such time as there is a sound and well understood basis for such exclusion.

I note your continued misconstruance of the significance of that particular oil discovery, despite my request that you desist.

If you want me to help you understand the matter, of that particular discovery and its true significance, there are better ways to elicit clarification from myself.

 

[Ves]

So much for the Greenies concern about the environment.......Don't worry that there may be some rare species being killed......You know the ones the Greenies use to stop the building of dams etc.
http://savetheeaglesinternational.o...10-20-times-more-than-previously-thought.html

Again, pretty much anything man builds has an effect on the natural order.

If you are really interested in animal welfare, you should link some stats that provide context on how many animals die as a result of wind farms compared to other man made structures.

But you're not interested in animal welfare at all, so you won't.

Your behaviour is exactly the same as the 'Greenies' you so despise.

 

[noco]

Again, pretty much anything man builds has an effect on the natural order.

If you are really interested in animal welfare, you should link some stats that provide context on how many animals die as a result of wind farms compared to other man made structures.

But you're not interested in animal welfare at all, so you won't.

Your behaviour is exactly the same as the 'Greenies' you so despise.

I have already given you the information of bird deaths......If you want to compare that with other man made structures, then do your own home work instead me having to it for you....Do you want me to spoon feed you like a baby?

The Greens seem to have the power to stop a dam because it might wipe a rare finch or a red nosed hairy wombat but don't seem to care about the loss of rare birds on wind farms.

 

[Ves]

Do you want me to spoon feed you like a baby?

No I'd just prefer if it you make an actual argument rather than cherry picking the first random stat that comes up in your Google feed.

I'm not sure if you're completely oblivious to the context of the bird death stat you've been posting or if you're deliberately not posting it because you know it weakens your argument.

Probably doesn't matter, you've got little credibility around here any way.