Resisting Climate Hysteria

[basilio]

I had some time to waste.... so I decided to check out the rationale of The Flat Earth Society and and why it believes we have got it all wrong (ie the Earth is round) .

Very compelling indeed. You just have to take it on faith and accept the complex, intricate maths as accurate.

Oh and you have to believe that the entire scientific community as well as world governments are in on a giant conspiracy theory.

By they way is anyone else aware that there is absolutely no support for a round earth amongst the scientific community . True ! Just check out all and any research paper abstract on earth sciences. NONE will come out and state that the earth is round. NONE!!



"

Deprogramming the masses since 1547"
Mission Statement

For centuries, mankind knew all there was to know about the shape of the Earth. It was a flat planet, shaped roughly like a circle, with lots of pointy things hanging down from the underside. On the comparatively smooth topside, Europe sat in the middle of the circle, with the other continents scattered about the fringes, and parts of Africa hanging over the edge. The oceans lapped against the sides of the Earth, and in places ran over, creating currents that would pull over the edge ships that ventured too far out to sea. The space beyond the edge of the world was a dark realm inhabited by all sorts of unholy beasts. Fire and brimstone billowed up from the very depths of hell itself and curled 'round the cliffs whose infinite length jutted straight down to the darkest depths . . . .

Then, in the year of our Lord fourteen-hundred and ninety-two, it all changed. For decades a small band of self-proclaimed "enlightened" individuals had been spouting their heretical nonsense that the Earth was in fact round. Citing "proof" based on nothing more than assumptions, half-truths and blind guesses, they dazzled the populace with their " . . . undeniable mathematical and scientific evidence . . . that the world is shaped not like a pancake, but an orange!"

Rightly wishing to dispel notions regarding the alleged citrus-like shape of our planet, the Church was able to either silence or execute nearly all the fanatics. But a small handful remained, continuing to spread their blasphemous speeches and to promote their heretical ideals involving the very center of the universe. One of their number, who called himself Grigori Efimovich, would later be known to the rest of the world as Christopher Columbus. Using an elaborate setup involving hundreds of mirrors and a few burlap sacks, he was able to create an illusion so convincing that it was actually believed he had sailed around the entire planet and landed in the West Indies. As we now know, he did not. What Efimovich actually did was sail across the Atlantic Ocean to a previously undiscovered continent, North America, and even then only to a small island off the coast. It took him several years more even to "discover" his blunder and claim it as a " . . . new world". But the damage had already been done, and mankind entered into what we now call its "Dark Ages" . . . .

Enter the Flat Earth Society. For over five hundred years humanity has believed the "round Earth" teachings of Efimovich and his followers. But all hope is not lost. For through all that time, a small but diligent band of individuals have preserved the knowledge of our planet's true shape. And now, after centuries in the Dark Ages, we believe that mankind as a whole is once again ready to embrace the truth that has forever been the Flat Earth Society. Using whatever means are deemed necessary and relying heavily on a callous disregard for the lives and well-being of our members, we have slowly but steadily been spreading the news.

But why? Why do we say the Earth is flat, when the vast majority says otherwise?Because we know the truth.

.
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm


_________________________________________________________

For more information check out the following very active Forum and Wiki site
http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?board=7.0
http://wiki.tfes.org/FAQ

 

[spooly74]

I had some time to waste.... so I decided to check out the rationale of The Flat Earth Society and and why it believes we have got it all wrong (ie the Earth is round) .

Very compelling indeed. You just have to take it on faith and accept the complex, intricate maths as accurate.

Oh and you have to believe that the entire scientific community as well as world governments are in on a giant conspiracy theory.

By they way is anyone else aware that there is absolutely no support for a round earth amongst the scientific community . True ! Just check out all and any research paper abstract on earth sciences. NONE will come out and state that the earth is round. NONE!!



".
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm


_________________________________________________________

For more information check out the following very active Forum and Wiki site
http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?board=7.0
http://wiki.tfes.org/FAQ

It's not round.
It's an oblate spheroid.

 

[wayneL]

How many argumentative fallacies are you trying to add to your speciousness bas?

Knobby, purveyors of obnoxious and misrepresentative pejorative associative terms, vis a vis "denier", don't really deserve a place in intellectual debate.

 

[luutzu]

Just read the El Nino is expected this spring in Australia. Potentially kicking off another decade of drought in Australia.

 

[wayneL]

Just read the El Nino is expected this spring in Australia. Potentially kicking off another decade of drought in Australia.

...El Nino have always occurred.

 

[luutzu]

...El Nino have always occurred.

I know. They say it's "big" this time though - on scale of the one in 1990s that causes the drought all along the east coast for quite a while there.

 

[sydboy007]

Maurice Newman has warned WA that the east coast states are planning Operation jade helm with the intent of overthrowing the Wes Staryan Government. Proposes senate enact laws limiting the federal Government ability to purchase ammunition.

Other Newmanisms to note is the world Govt cabal keeping tens of thousands of scientists continually in line and on topic for a couple of decades. The only thing harder would have been to herd shrodinger cats for that long, on which the scientific community which is still yet to unanimously agree are alive or dead.

Next, tin foil in short supply due to World Govt cabal edict....

 

[Knobby22]

How many argumentative fallacies are you trying to add to your speciousness bas?

Knobby, purveyors of obnoxious and misrepresentative pejorative associative terms, vis a vis "denier", don't really deserve a place in intellectual debate.

Hey chill.
Just having a laugh, those flat earthers don't take themselves seriously imo also.
And the word denier was used by the Prez, not me.

I prefer the words "climate change minimalists" to represent the forces now. Most have gone beyond the "denier" stage.

1. Denial
2. Anger
3, Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

 

[luutzu]

Maurice Newman has warned WA that the east coast states are planning Operation jade helm with the intent of overthrowing the Wes Staryan Government. Proposes senate enact laws limiting the federal Government ability to purchase ammunition.

Other Newmanisms to note is the world Govt cabal keeping tens of thousands of scientists continually in line and on topic for a couple of decades. The only thing harder would have been to herd shrodinger cats for that long, on which the scientific community which is still yet to unanimously agree are alive or dead.

Next, tin foil in short supply due to World Govt cabal edict....

If there's a conspiracy, I'd thought it would be that "there is no climate change".

I think big business didn't realise the implications of these research way back then so the cat was out of the bag and now they're trying to flood alternative opinions and "research", trying to neutralise the cat that's out of the bag.

I mean, who would benefit from clean and renewal energy? A few Chinese solar panel manufacturers, a couple of wind turbine guys in Europe, and a couple guys like Elon Musk. That and future generations and other species and a few Pacific islands but yea, that's all.

Who benefits from doing things the way it's being done?

Oil and coal miners and all the industries downstream from that; the insurance industry doesn't really mind as long as catastrophe doesn't occur too frequently - they can just jack up premiums between relatively minor disasters; the gasoline-based auto industry... then there's the large economies consuming massive amount of fossil fuel, whose utilities are based on fossil fuel, or who export these stuff and think it's good for humanity.

 

[Logique]

Maurice Newman provides a potted summary in the SMH, which presumably wants us to sneer and mock:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...s-adviser-maurice-newman-20150508-ggwuzt.html

But Newman is a lot closer to the truth than Flim Flam.

 

[basilio]

How many argumentative fallacies are you trying to add to your speciousness bas?

Knobby, purveyors of obnoxious and misrepresentative pejorative associative terms, vis a vis "denier", don't really deserve a place in intellectual debate.

Lots and LOT'S of big words there Wayne. Do you you really understand what your saying or just like the sound of them ?

I was just having fun with the Flat Earth Society. I suppose the interesting part is that there are a number of people who take this seriously and they can conjure up all sorts of arguments to back up their beliefs.

If I chose to of course I could wander amongst those who believe the moon landings were faked, that President Obama was born in Kenya, that the Holocaust was way overrated, that The Illuminati are everywhere. And of course those that believe that the overwhelmingly majority of climate scientists are fundamentally wrong or deliberately deceitful in their understanding of the way our climate works.

By the way have you anything to say about the research paper on the Antarctic ice shelf melting ?

 

[Ferret]

it annoys me that certain words in the English language are now deemed to be off-limits.

If "deny" or "denier" are appropriate, why can't they be used?

I think that often people who claim they are being associated with holocaust denial are just playing the pc card.

 

[wayneL]

Bas the link wont load on my phone.

But you, as one of he chief whiners about the tone of discussion, are playing the man.

Hypocritical.

 

[wayneL]

it annoys me that certain words in the English language are now deemed to be off-limits.

If "deny" or "denier" are appropriate, why can't they be used?

I think that often people who claim they are being associated with holocaust denial are just playing the pc card.

Mate, when the likes of Pielke Jnr and Curry are referred to as deniers, it stinks.

Unintellectual politicking at best.

 

[trainspotter]

By the way have you anything to say about the research paper on the Antarctic ice shelf melting ?

Land ice or sea ice?

Estimates of recent changes in Antarctic land ice (Figure 2, bottom panel) show an increasing contribution to sea level with time, although not as fast a rate or acceleration as Greenland. Between 1992 and 2011, the Antarctic Ice Sheets overall lost 1350 giga-tonnes (Gt) or 1,350,000,000,000 tonnes into the oceans, at an average rate of 70 Gt per year (Gt/yr). Because a reduction in mass of 360 Gt/year represents an annual global-average sea level rise of 1 mm, these estimates equate to an increase in global-average sea levels by 0.19 mm/yr.

There is variation between regions within Antarctica (Figure 2, top panel), with the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and the Antarctic Peninsula Ice Sheet losing ice mass, and with an increasing rate. The East Antarctic Ice Sheet is growing slightly over this period but not enough to offset the other losses. There are of course uncertainties in the estimation methods but independent data from multiple measurement techniques (explained here) all show the same thing, Antarctica is losing land ice as a whole, and these losses are accelerating quickly.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice.htm

¿

 

[basilio]

Land ice or sea ice?

Estimates of recent changes in Antarctic land ice (Figure 2, bottom panel) show an increasing contribution to sea level with time, although not as fast a rate or acceleration as Greenland. Between 1992 and 2011, the Antarctic Ice Sheets overall lost 1350 giga-tonnes (Gt) or 1,350,000,000,000 tonnes into the oceans, at an average rate of 70 Gt per year (Gt/yr). Because a reduction in mass of 360 Gt/year represents an annual global-average sea level rise of 1 mm, these estimates equate to an increase in global-average sea levels by 0.19 mm/yr.

There is variation between regions within Antarctica (Figure 2, top panel), with the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and the Antarctic Peninsula Ice Sheet losing ice mass, and with an increasing rate. The East Antarctic Ice Sheet is growing slightly over this period but not enough to offset the other losses. There are of course uncertainties in the estimation methods but independent data from multiple measurement techniques (explained here) all show the same thing, Antarctica is losing land ice as a whole, and these losses are accelerating quickly.

The issue I was referring to wasn't simply the rate at which Antarctic ice might be melting. It appears that the melting of the sea ice around glaciers in West Antarctica will allow the whole of the inland glacier to slid into the ocean and trigger a rise of many meters.

The scientists believe that there is almost no chance of the glaciers not disintegrating without the protection of the sea ice. Time span is uncertain but between 100-300 years.

The sea ice is melting because of substantially warmer water cause by global warming.

West Antarctic glacial collapse: What you need to know
By Terrence McCoy May 13, 2014

Years from now, when scientists look for a precise moment when the Earth’s climate began to inexorably change, they may mark this week. Two separate studies Monday appeared to confirm a fear scientists have harbored for decades: major glaciers in the West Antarctic Ice Sheet are irrevocably destabilized, and their slide into the ocean will swell the world’s oceans by four feet.

Glaciers in West Antarctica “have passed the point of no return,” said Eric Rignot, the author of a study from the University of California at Irvine and NASA published in Geophysical Research Letters. It “will be a major contributor to sea level rise in the decades and centuries to come.”

Thomas P. Wagner, another NASA researcher who studies polar ice, was equally grave in an interview with the New York Times. “This is really happening,” he said. “There’s nothing to stop it now. But you are still limited by the physics of how fast the ice can flow.”

What does this mean for the planet and the human species? Likely a lot.

Here are some critical questions and answers.

Q: Why is the collapse of an ice sheet so important?

A: The science of global warming comes down to ice. Though Earth’s warming, the planet is currently in an ice age, and great sheets of ice at the poles ”” think Greenland and Antarctica ”” have not always existed. In the past, sea levels were actually significantly higher than they are in this era’s environment, which allowed contemporary civilization to thrive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rctic-glacial-collapse-what-you-need-to-know/

 

[Ferret]

Mate, when the likes of Pielke Jnr and Curry are referred to as deniers, it stinks.

Unintellectual politicking at best.

This isn't something I follow closely, so I had to google both those names. It appears they both have opinions on climate science and have previously been called "deniers". I have no idea whether that description is accurate for these two.

Nevertheless, the word is appropriate for the stance of some people.

I object to the ridiculous situation where appropriate use of the language is howled down in the name of political correctness.

 

[Tisme]

I object to the ridiculous situation where appropriate use of the language is howled down in the name of political correctness.

In my recollection, it was only a short period starting in the seventies and ending in the eighties where people spoke reasonably freely without the expected rebuke or smack in the mouth. Thank goodness the internet came into its own very early 90's where we could discuss things with even more gusto and get over ourselves being insulted.

 

[Tisme]

I had some time to waste.... so I decided to check out the rationale of The Flat Earth Society and and why it believes we have got it all wrong (ie the Earth is round) .

The world might appear round to humans, but how does it appear (for instance) to a fish? Similarly do those of us with stereo vision see things in a completely different way to those who are one eyed?

Of course the earth is flat, you only need to use a spirit level to know that is true. How could a plumb bob be perpendicular to the ground if the earth wasn't flat? It's so simple.

 

[trainspotter]

The issue I was referring to wasn't simply the rate at which Antarctic ice might be melting. It appears that the melting of the sea ice around glaciers in West Antarctica will allow the whole of the inland glacier to slid into the ocean and trigger a rise of many meters.

The scientists believe that there is almost no chance of the glaciers not disintegrating without the protection of the sea ice. Time span is uncertain but between 100-300 years.

The sea ice is melting because of substantially warmer water cause by global warming.

Errrrmmmmmmmmm not quite old chum ......

One must also be careful how you interpret trends in Antarctic sea ice. Currently this ice is increasing overall and has been for years but is this the smoking gun against climate change? Not quite. Antarctic sea ice is gaining because of many different reasons but the most accepted recent explanations are listed below:

i) Ozone levels over Antarctica have dropped causing stratospheric cooling and increasing winds which lead to more areas of open water that can be frozen (Gillet 2003, Thompson 2002, Turner 2009).

and

ii) The Southern Ocean is freshening because of increased rain and snowfall as well as an increase in meltwater coming from the edges of Antarctica's land ice (Zhang 2007, Bintanga et al. 2013). Together, these change the composition of the different layers in the ocean there causing less mixing between warm and cold layers and thus less melted sea and coastal land ice.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice.htm

But but but NASA can't be wrong ?

Sea ice surrounding Antarctica reached a new record high extent this year, covering more of the southern oceans than it has since scientists began a long-term satellite record to map sea ice extent in the late 1970s.

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum

“There hasn’t been one explanation yet that I’d say has become a consensus, where people say, ‘We’ve nailed it, this is why it’s happening,’” Parkinson said. “Our models are improving, but they’re far from perfect. One by one, scientists are figuring out that particular variables are more important than we thought years ago, and one by one those variables are getting incorporated into the models.”

Alarming eh? Yes yes yes the ANTARCTIC LAND ICE is melting ... at the rate of 0.19mm ocean rise per year and expected to take several 1000's of years before complete meltdown at the current rate.

The ARCTIC is where the BIG defrosting is happening. Since the late 1970s, the Arctic has lost an average of 20,800 square miles (53,900 square kilometers) of ice a year; the Antarctic has gained an average of 7,300 square miles (18,900 sq km).

Penguins in Antarctica, Polar bears in Arctic. Crazy world huh?