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Kevin Rudd for PM

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db94 said:
im 19 and i can say that i wont be voting for Labor. Unfortunately most of my friends will because they think Rudds a 'good bloke'
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I guess they don't realise Rudd lied to school kids yesterday about the coalition raising GST. If he's going to lie, then lie to the grown ups but not to kids. What a shocking role model!

And I guess these mates don't realise many in labor hate Rudd and there's a good chance he won't survive long after the election, IMO. Rudd has made noises about securing his position but I suspect the unions have ensured there is an escape plan. Seems no point voting for a leader who might not survive the term.

Well done for making up your own mind, DB!
 
noco said:
So whether you talk about a carbon tax, an ETS or direct action, none of them is necessary and I am also talking about the direct action by the Coalition. The carbon tax or the ETS will do nothing to change the climate and neither will the direct action.
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See! Doesn't that feel better just saying it. If you don't believe the science then why not just say so, plenty of people do, rather than try and pick holes in policies that are trying to solve a problem that you don't think exists.

noco said:
I am now well into my 80's and I have lived through more changes to climate than you would have had hot dinners. ... So I guess by now you realize you have hit a nerve when you start talking about climate change.
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Climate does change, always has, always will. People have adapted as required when changes do occur, and life goes on. The planet is largely in balance and moves through a stable oscillation from one extreme to the other. My concern is that our actions may speed up the oscillations, or worse, disrupt the stabilizers such that we move into an unstable oscillation. Then we're ****ed.

The underlying greenhouse effect theory is simple, and proven. Whether the evidence shows significant global warming is occurring now or not is irrelevant IMO. Personally I'm not up to date with the latest back-and-forth on temperature measurements, or the latest modeling, and it is incredibly painful to try and find actual science vs propaganda nowadays. What I'm concerned with is how far we can stretch the rubber band before it snaps.

So, it touches a nerve for me when people suggest there's nothing to worry about, as if the fact that we haven't ****ed the planet by now proves we're not going to any time soon.

It also touches a nerve when people, and parties for that matter, use it as a tool to justify other ends, as it trivialized a serious issue. Costs of living are a serious concern and shouldn't be increased lightly. I think it is entirely valid to debate whether Australia's actions will amount to anything, I think it is entirely valid to discuss which policies if any will be the most effective, or fairest.

But it really touches a nerve, when people's political views start to colour their perception of the science, and then try and twist the science to further their own political ambitions. When people lump every last little offhand comment together to somehow justify action or inaction without going to the core of the matter is infuriating.

noco said:
... so the three naive Labor Party states of Queensland , NSW and Victoria wasted billions of dollars on constructing desal plants which are now all in mothballs
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Great example. The desalination plant on the Gold Coast, and the SE QLD water grid which links major dams to the desal, and the recycled water plants, were the solution to the fact that we haven't increased our water supplies in line with population growth. Droughts happen, they're not a recent occurrence due to man-made climate changes. Either new dams, population restrictions, or this infrastructure was needed. Personally I support the idea of running a pipeline all the way up to Cairns to shift water supplies around the entire state. But the way it was implemented was absolutely abysmal, and I saw first hand just how much money was wasted on those projects. And the way some politicians spruiked it as action on climate change made me grind my teeth.

This infrastructure project is also a great way of comparing the current choice between Rudd and Abbott. Rudd has big ideas, similar to this, which will be required in the long run. His record so far is that if he's allowed to implement them they probably will serve Australia well going forward, but there's a good chance we'll pay more then we need to, that small business will be stepped on to get the job done, and that there'll be some stuff up along the way, that if left to fester into a scandal will most likely cause the end of the project before it's complete.

Vs Abbott who's biggest idea so far is to consider the top-end for renovation.
 
db94 said:
im 19 and i can say that i wont be voting for Labor. Unfortunately most of my friends will because they think Rudds a 'good bloke'
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Yes, unfortunately when you are young it is easy to think that spend, spend, spend sounds better than hey let's tighten the belt.

When you get a lot older, you realise you can't keep spending more than you earn ad infinitum, eventually it catches up with you.

But it sounds much cooler when your a spender.:xyxthumbs
 
Zedd said:
The underlying greenhouse effect theory is simple, and proven. Whether the evidence shows significant global warming is occurring now or not is irrelevant IMO. Personally I'm not up to date with the latest back-and-forth on temperature measurements, or the latest modeling, and it is incredibly painful to try and find actual science vs propaganda nowadays. What I'm concerned with is how far we can stretch the rubber band before it snaps.

So, it touches a nerve for me when people suggest there's nothing to worry about, as if the fact that we haven't ****ed the planet by now proves we're not going to any time soon.
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The underlying greenhouse effect is acknowledged by "deniers" and "zealots" alike.

Of course the fact that there is no evidence that there is any warming over the past 16-17 years doesn't matter to you, because your faith doesn't think it matters.

You are making an assumption that there is a rubber band, and that it could snap. You are prepared to condemn those in third world countries our economic freedom, our food security and our lifestyle because you have made an assumption? I can tell you that to them, THEY don't care one iota what you think.

So it touches a nerve for me when people suggest there is something we need to panic about.

I suggest you read some of the science, and some of the contrary views, and form your own opinion as to which group or which person's position can fit the reality, because projections and predictions are just that, and what happens in the real world is what matters.

MW
 
noco said:
Maybe Beattie just might have in mind to become Labor Party leader in opposition if Rudd gets defeated and then disposed by the new 75% rule.
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I think that might have been watered down to 60% in opposition.

If Labor lose, I couldn't imagine Kev staying in any case. Having already been wedded twice, he doesn't strike me as someone who would like to take a second stint in the bridesmaid's dress.
 
drsmith said:
I think that might have been watered down to 60% in opposition.

If Labor lose, I couldn't imagine Kev staying in any case. Having already been wedded twice, he doesn't strike me as someone who would like to take a second stint in the bridesmaid's dress.
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Yes he would move onto the guest speaker circuit, where people pay to listen to him. Let's see how that works for him.lol
 
drsmith said:
I think that might have been watered down to 60% in opposition.

If Labor lose, I couldn't imagine Kev staying in any case. Having already been wedded twice, he doesn't strike me as someone who would like to take a second stint in the bridesmaid's dress.
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Yes Doc, you are right about that 60 % rule. I overlooked the facr that Rudd will be in opposition after 7th September.:D:D:D
 
How does a KRudd for PM thread turn into a spam fest for the ASF right?

I can only see 2 posts on this page because everyone else is on ignore. :rolleyes:
 
sptrawler said:
Yes, unfortunately when you are young it is easy to think that spend, spend, spend sounds better than hey let's tighten the belt.

When you get a lot older, you realise you can't keep spending more than you earn ad infinitum, eventually it catches up with you.

But it sounds much cooler when your a spender.:xyxthumbs
Click to expand...

Ah, I'd think most of the $1.4 trillion in mortgage debt is not held by the young.

Definitely little to any negatively geared property for the youngsters too, though they properly accept the subsidised housing with glee.

Profligacy and spendthrift don't seem to know social bounds, age or income levels. Plenty of boomers hit retirement with substantial debts, only to cash out their super, pay the debt off then hands out for their full pension and associated benefits.
 
sydboy007 said:
Ah, I'd think most of the $1.4 trillion in mortgage debt is not held by the young.

Definitely little to any negatively geared property for the youngsters too, though they properly accept the subsidised housing with glee.

Profligacy and spendthrift don't seem to know social bounds, age or income levels. Plenty of boomers hit retirement with substantial debts, only to cash out their super, pay the debt off then hands out for their full pension and associated benefits.
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Agree completely, many of my mates are hitting the reality wall, they are hitting 60 and the reality isn't what they expected.
Retirement needs to be thought about in your 20's, when you have chosen your career path, you need then to start planning the rest of your life.
 

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