Kevin Rudd for PM

[Julia]

I'm of the view that the role of taxes should be first and foremost the simple and efficient collection of tax.

Influencing what people do and do not eat is in my view not a primary role of tax collection. That perhaps belongs more in the area of education.

Ideally, yes. But - given the massive amount of education out there and the relentlessly increasing obesity - it just ain't working.
Obesity is the cause of so many diseases. If it were possible to counteract the trend, that would probably save more in health funds than any broadening of the GST.

 

[MACCA350]

Obesity is the cause of so many diseases. If it were possible to counteract the trend, that would probably save more in health funds than any broadening of the GST.

There was an interesting story on obesity on Catalyst last night
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3821440.htm

Cheers

 

[Knobby22]

There was an interesting story on obesity on Catalyst last night
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3821440.htm

Cheers

I saw it too Macca. It was excellent. Worth 15 minutes watching it everyone. I plan to change my diet slightly and I am a pretty healthy eater.

 

[Julia]

What was the basic hypothesis?

 

[MACCA350]

What was the basic hypothesis?

Basically increased sugar in the food supply increases insulin which increases fat deposition. Sugar also suppresses Ghrelin(the full feeling) which increases appetite and consumption.

- The low fat/fat free revolution of the 70's caused the food industry to increase sugar to compensate(some low fat versions contain 6x more sugar).

- Higher sugar content makes food taste better increasing the impulse to eat more.

- Almost everything with a food label has sugar added.

- "If you constantly provide carbohydrates to the body, you'll have constantly high insulin levels, and that will lead to increased fat deposition in tissues."

- "The higher your insulin, the more likely you are to store fat, because insulin is the main hormone that puts fat into fat cells."

- "Sugar is a simple carbohydrate made of two molecules, glucose and fructose. This bond is cleaved in the gut before they're absorbed. It's been shown that glucose mainly drives fat storage under the skin, and fructose deposits fat around organs, like the liver."

- "Chronically high levels of fructose is not only toxic to your liver - it messes with the hormones that control appetite."

- "when you consume sugar, fructose does not get registered by the brain as you having eaten. Ghrelin doesn't change. You stay hungry."

- "Our fat consumption has stayed exactly the same over the last 30 years. And look at the disaster that has befallen us. And that is because our consumption of dietary carbohydrate has gone through the roof. Anything that drives insulin up will drive weight gain."

- "Professor Lustig says it's easy to fall into the trappings of sugary food, because the more you eat, the more you want. MRI scans show that sugar triggers the same reward centres in the brain as nicotine, alcohol or cocaine."

- "Until now, each generation has always had a longer lifespan than the previous. But it's been predicted this current generation won't. And obesity is to blame. Even if we act now, it'll take a generation or two to turn the tide around. And if our experts are right, the weight of the nation rests of the shoulders of the food industry."

 

[Julia]

Thanks Macca. Good of you to provide so much detail.
I'm a bit surprised, though, to think it's in any way groundbreaking research.
We've known about added sugar for a long time. Ditto salt and fat.

Too many people simply don't think about what they're eating. It tastes good. They eat it. They get fatter.

If one eats primarily fresh fruit and vegetables, has adequate protein (you don't need all that much), then imo there's nothing wrong with eg a little butter on the vegetables, small amounts of sugar/chocolate.

A big improvement would be to avoid most starch. If you don't have the bowl of pasta (not much more than flour and water with minimal nutritional value) you're not going to have the fat laden sauce which - if it's packaged -
probably contains trans fats. And if you don't have the similarly minimally nutritious bread, you're probably not going to have a heap of toppings either.

Anyway, we've rather diverting the thread.

 

[dutchie]

Rudd to include food in GST and increase rate to 25%

Increases price of a jar of Vegemite by $3

 

[Knobby22]

Rudd to include food in GST and increase rate to 25%

Increases price of a jar of Vegemite by $3

No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.

 

[noco]

No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.

Rudd is using scare tactics again. Why can't he tell the truth for once. The coalition will not increase the GST in its first term but it will be reviewed and if it is agreed upon, it will be put to the people in 2016 to decide at the ballot box.

I would prefer him to sit down with a trusted economist and do the equation on what his Carbon Dioxide tax has added to the cost of living, starting with electricity which affects every business. I heard of a small Brumby bakery whose electricity went from $800 to $1000 per month. It was the last straw that broke the camels back for the owner for they were on set prices under their franchise agreement. Had they been able to pass ot on, a loaf of bread would have cost a lot more.

He made a big deal out of his announcement that he is scrapping the carbon tax and reverting to the ETS one year earlier. What he is not telling us is the ETS could rise from $6 per tonne to $38 per tonne in a few years.

Rudd is a man not to be trusted. He is worse than Gillard with his modus operandi of putting fairy dust on everything he talks about.

 

[sptrawler]

No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.

Like I said before, Labor introduced another consumption tax with the carbon tax. Everyone uses electricity one way or another. So why doesn't Abbott turn it on him?

 

[Zedd]

Rudd is using scare tactics again. Why can't he tell the truth for once. The coalition will not increase the GST in its first term but it will be reviewed and if it is agreed upon, it will be put to the people in 2016 to decide at the ballot box.

Agree. Interesting that they think this sort of scare tactic would work.

I would prefer him to sit down with a trusted economist and do the equation on what his Carbon Dioxide tax has added to the cost of living, starting with electricity which affects every business. I heard of a small Brumby bakery whose electricity went from $800 to $1000 per month.

Hasn't a review (independent I think) already taken place and the findings clearly showed that something like 80%+ of price hikes have occurred due to maintenance & installation costs with some suggesting excessive "gold-plating", and that the carbon tax has added somewhere around 10%? Never good to hear someone's gone out of business. Always disappointing to hear misdirected anger.

He made a big deal out of his announcement that he is scrapping the carbon tax and reverting to the ETS one year earlier. What he is not telling us is the ETS could rise from $6 per tonne to $38 per tonne in a few years.

And what Abbott's not telling us is that if catastrophic climate change occurs the cost is going to be significantly more. If you support action on carbon emissions what policy would you prefer noco? If not, then it doesn't matter what the price is you're going to think Rudd is wasting our time and money, and likewise must think Abbott's direct action policy is a waste of money also.

And yes, Rudd is attempting to spin any and all policies on pricing carbon. You're absolutely right. Don't trust the spin he tries to put on the policy, simply read the policy itself.

 

[dutchie]

No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.

And I'm saying Labor will put a GST on food if they win.

 

[GoodCall]

I saw it too Macca. It was excellent. Worth 15 minutes watching it everyone. I plan to change my diet slightly and I am a pretty healthy eater.

I skimmed the story. What was said about insulin levels and carbohydrates is misleading. I noticed the names of Gary Taubes and Lustig. Taubes' theories are controversial and he is well known to quote other authors out of context. I am surprised that Catalyst allowed this faddish pseudo-science into a mainstream science program. This dis-information is just the familiar dogma for the very low carbohydrate "paleo" diet.

Btw, if fructose is so bad for you, then fruit must also be bad for you.

 

[Knobby22]

And I'm saying Labor will put a GST on food if they win.

Yes, the Libs used that as a scare campaign in country Victoria in the previous election. My sister who lives in Castlemaine really believed it.

But we know the Murdoch camp is in favour raising the GST so it will be Abbott who will have to resist it.

The GST is a tax on average people so it is the rich and powerful that want it. We can all only eat so much food, so if they tax it, it will affect families and poorer people most. It really should be against Liberal policy as the "family" party. Thankfully it is not going to happen this term but watch out.

- - - Updated - - -

I skimmed the story. What was said about insulin levels and carbohydrates is misleading. I noticed the names of Gary Taubes and Lustig. Taubes' theories are controversial and he is well known to quote other authors out of context. I am surprised that Catalyst allowed this faddish pseudo-science into a mainstream science program. This dis-information is just the familiar dogma for the very low carbohydrate "paleo" diet.

Btw, if fructose is so bad for you, then fruit must also be bad for you.

Fruit isn't bad for you but drinking the fruit equivalent of 30 pieces of fruit is. Watch the doco. then decide.

 

[Julia]

Rudd to include food in GST and increase rate to 25%

Increases price of a jar of Vegemite by $3

No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.

Knobby, dutchie's post was surely tongue in cheek. No one would be suggesting including food and increasing the rate to 25%.
I read his post as the very accurate observation that Rudd is raising a completely baseless scare campaign on the GST directed toward the Abbott side, and that it would make as much sense to suggest Rudd himself is intending to raise the GST to 25%.

I don't know how they can engage in this sort of completely dishonest obfuscation. Mr Abbott has absolutely clearly ruled out any change to the GST in this term if he is elected. He has simply agreed that we need an overall thorough look at the whole tax system which would quite obviously include the GST.

The Henry Review largely did this, but the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government chose to ignore that useful document because it didn't suit their political purposes at the time.

I skimmed the story. What was said about insulin levels and carbohydrates is misleading. I noticed the names of Gary Taubes and Lustig. Taubes' theories are controversial and he is well known to quote other authors out of context. I am surprised that Catalyst allowed this faddish pseudo-science into a mainstream science program. This dis-information is just the familiar dogma for the very low carbohydrate "paleo" diet.

Btw, if fructose is so bad for you, then fruit must also be bad for you.

+1. Minus 10 to Catalyst in this instance.

 

[noco]

Agree. Interesting that they think this sort of scare tactic would work.

Hasn't a review (independent I think) already taken place and the findings clearly showed that something like 80%+ of price hikes have occurred due to maintenance & installation costs with some suggesting excessive "gold-plating", and that the carbon tax has added somewhere around 10%? Never good to hear someone's gone out of business. Always disappointing to hear misdirected anger.

And what Abbott's not telling us is that if catastrophic climate change occurs the cost is going to be significantly more. If you support action on carbon emissions what policy would you prefer noco? If not, then it doesn't matter what the price is you're going to think Rudd is wasting our time and money, and likewise must think Abbott's direct action policy is a waste of money also.

And yes, Rudd is attempting to spin any and all policies on pricing carbon. You're absolutely right. Don't trust the spin he tries to put on the policy, simply read the policy itself.

Whilst I realize this may be off the topic, candidly speaking I am a sceptic when it comes to talking about climate change but remember when this crap was first mooted it was Global warming of which it has been proven there has been no change in Global warming for 16 years so they then started talking about Climate Change. Do you recall Tim Flannery, who is Labors Climate change Commisioner on $180,000 per year to do three days work a week and who has some 1000 public servants in his climate change department, stating back in 2007 the rains would stop and never fill the dams again so the three naive Labor Party states of Queensland , NSW and Victoria wasted billions of dollars on constructing desal plants which are now all in mothballs. So whether you talk about a carbon tax, an ETS or direct action, none of them is neccessary and I am also talking about the direct action by the Coalition. The carbon tax or the ETS will do nothing to change the climate and neither will the direct action.
The Labor Party are after revenue and has nothing to do with the environment. The Coalition are promoting their direct action to appease everyone into believing they are doing something about Green House gases. A policy, which in my mind is a waste of money and I certainly oppose it..

Jedd, I am now well into my 80's and I have lived through more changes to climate than you would have had hot dinners.I worked for many years in South West Queensland on various sheep stations. I have been through many dorughts, floods and fires. I was marooned for three weeks on one station where the homestead was sitting on an inland Island surrounded by water. There were no helicopters to drop off food supllies. The station owners and their ancesters had been through it plenty of times before. They knew these changes to climate had been occuring for centuries. They had their sheep. cows for milking, poultry and they grew their own vegetables as well as a good stock of non perishables in their pantries.
The majority of these pioneers in good times grew some 500 acres of silage which was buried underground and was good for 11 years to feed thier sheep and cattle in drought conditions. There was never any shortage of water even though their ground tanks were dry, there was always plenty of bore water.

So I guess by now you realize you have hit a nerve when you start talking about climate change.

 

[noco]

Your eyes will pop out of your head when you read the link below.

In short, Kevein Rudd and his wife Therese Rein set up Ingeus while Rudd was Chief of staff for the then Premier of Queensland Wayne Goss. Goss was a board director of Ingeus and Chairman of Deoitte untill just recently.

Rudd had legislation passed through parliament which was of benifit to his wife's business.

If this had occured to Tony Abbotts wife, the Labor Party would have been all over it and demanding a Royal Commission.

It is all there to read in the attached link.

http://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com...eus-ltd-the-obeids-of-the-federal-government/

 

[GoodCall]

Fruit isn't bad for you but drinking the fruit equivalent of 30 pieces of fruit is. Watch the doco. then decide.

Over indulging in any food will put a strain on the body, whether it be fat, sugar or protein. Who regularly drinks 4 plus Litres of fruit juice at a time? The excess water would be more of a worry.

Dr Lustig has asserted that "fructose is alcohol without the buzz" - basic organic chemistry fail.

I understand this is off topic and I don't mean to divert the thread, I just can't let this one go without pointing out the pseudo-science involved.

 

[burglar]

Over indulging in any food will put a strain on the body, whether it be fat, sugar or protein. Who regularly drinks 4 plus Litres of fruit juice at a time? The excess water would be more of a worry.

Dr Lustig has asserted that "fructose is alcohol without the buzz" - basic organic chemistry fail.

I understand this is off topic and I don't mean to divert the thread, I just can't let this one go without pointing out the pseudo-science involved.

Fructose is not bad for you. Nor is fruit.
Excessive fructose is bad for you.
Fruit is different to fructose, as it contains roughage and stuff.

This program of so-called pseudo-science made more sense than anything I have seen or read in two decades.



Now back to the topic!!

 

[dutchie]

Knobby, dutchie's post was surely tongue in cheek. No one would be suggesting including food and increasing the rate to 25%.
I read his post as the very accurate observation that Rudd is raising a completely baseless scare campaign on the GST directed toward the Abbott side, and that it would make as much sense to suggest Rudd himself is intending to raise the GST to 25%.

I don't know how they can engage in this sort of completely dishonest obfuscation. Mr Abbott has absolutely clearly ruled out any change to the GST in this term if he is elected. He has simply agreed that we need an overall thorough look at the whole tax system which would quite obviously include the GST.

The Henry Review largely did this, but the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government chose to ignore that useful document because it didn't suit their political purposes at the time.


+1. Minus 10 to Catalyst in this instance.

Your very sharp Julia