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The Gillard Government

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drsmith said:
The carbon tax over time will be an accumulating cholesterol on our economic arteries.
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That is a good way of describing it.
These idiots running around saying the sky hasn't fallen in, obviously have no understanding of the tax. Gillard and the goon show, love these sort of voters, feed them rubbish wind them up and send them out voters.
Anyway, we've done it to death, can't wait for the carbon tax on trucks. Coming to supermarket near you.:D
 
sptrawler said:
That is a good way of describing it.
These idiots running around saying the sky hasn't fallen in, obviously have no understanding of the tax.
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Well, I must be one of these idiots. I have seen a small increase in my electricity bill. I may be paying other increases in prices of which I'm unaware because it's impossible to distinguish these from normal supply/demand variations.

It certainly hasn't had any unmanageable impact on my life so far.

(That's not to say I'm at all in favour of it: simply commenting that Mr Abbott seems to have once again indulged in rhetoric that in the event turns out to be well and truly overdone, and he is losing credibility and votes as a result.)
 
Julia said:
Well, I must be one of these idiots. I have seen a small increase in my electricity bill. I may be paying other increases in prices of which I'm unaware because it's impossible to distinguish these from normal supply/demand variations.

It certainly hasn't had any unmanageable impact on my life so far.

(That's not to say I'm at all in favour of it: simply commenting that Mr Abbott seems to have once again indulged in rhetoric that in the event turns out to be well and truly overdone, and he is losing credibility and votes as a result.)
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I think the point we're trying to make is that this is a ticking time bomb, companies havent felt the full force yet and when they do we will cop it. Wait and see.
 
Re: Gillard better PM than Rudd

Calliope said:
Yes, Gillard is on a roll. The Labor "destroy the sexist, misogynist Abbott" campaign, is gaining momentum. The feminists are all getting stuck into him on ABC radio, on Twitter-World and in the Fairfax press, and the dirt is sticking.
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Yes, it is, because he is utterly failing to counter their attacks.
 
Ves said:
Very, very bold statement. Can I have a lend of your crystal ball when you're done pontificating?
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Well it is pretty simple, when you add a tax to make your 'cheap energy' more expensive.
You lose a cost advantage over your competitors, I am sure I read we have lost 100,000 jobs in manufacturing.
Apart from having cheap energy we don't have many advantages over Asia, that is unless we start paying you the same as them.LOl
Not a crystal ball, just common sense.
If all you are doing is sending raw materials o/s and importing finished product.
While at the same time increasing taxes on our own producers, eventually you have no raw material to sell and your manufacturing has shut down.
The really amusing thing is everyone thinks "we don't have to worry, it won't happen in my lifetime" :D

Under Howard, it was a bit like "slowly, slowly catch the monkey"
Under Labor it is a bit like "someone catch that little $hit and wring its neck"
 
sptrawler said:
You lose a cost advantage over your competitors
Apart from having cheap energy we don't have many advantages over Asia
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Did you realise that China, India, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea to name a few have all had some kind of advanced political discussions regarding (or in some cases have implemented) a tax on carbon dioxide emissions?

The tax itself is not large enough to destroy any cost advantage that our energy industry may or may not have (your words, not mine).

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201203/s3461101.htm

This source, I am not sure how valid you think it is, predicts that our coal exports will triple over the next decade.

You seem to be acting more out of emotion than any logic.

edit: in regards to manufacturing, our industries here have been in a long, slow decline for a long time now... I don't think the carbon tax has anything to do with that.
 
Re: Gillard better PM than Rudd

drsmith said:
The Coalition won't lose unless they do something silly like replace Tony Abbott with Malcolm Turnbull. He's politically too soft and Labor would rip him to pieces.

The next session of Parliament I suspect will be the moment of truth for one of the leaders of the two major parties.
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As usual, I'm with you doc, it is still a long way out from an election and this campaign manager for Labor, is pulling rabbits out of the hat.
The worst thing the Coalition could do would be to panic and throw out Abbott, especially to put in Turnbull. They would end up giving him a nervous breakdown IMO.
It is a bit like a game of chess, there is no point playing all your big shotts early. Then finding when you are within range, you have no ammo.
If this ridiculous government goes untill the end of next year, the opposition would be stupid to start the fight 12 months out.
Lets get real, the Labor game master is no goose(unlike Swan) and will find a way of deflecting the issues and throwing up crap like Julias speach to the aggrieved female voter. Not wanting to be funny, but I haven't seen Abbott get nasty with anyone, he just says it as he sees it.
 
MrBurns said:
I think the point we're trying to make is that this is a ticking time bomb, companies havent felt the full force yet and when they do we will cop it. Wait and see.
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You are correct in saying that the full force of the carbon tax hasn't been felt yet. However, I think the problem for Abbott is that the carbon tax will not be accounted for as a distinguishable item in the myriad of cost factors that make up the cost of doing business. It would be too complex to do. The more time the carbon tax has to flow through and be recycled through the economy, the greater the cumulative impact of it will be (the multiplier effect at play) but also the more difficult it becomes to identify the percentage of any cost increases down the line to any particular cost at the origin.

Abbott needed the carbon tax to have an immediate and detrimental impact on the economy for his predictions to be vindicated, as the cause-effect is then at its most obvious. It is now too late. Even if the economy tanks over the next few years no one will be able to say that the carbon tax was the fault and without it we would have been OK. Abbott blaming the carbon tax for the eventual demise would be viewed as "well he would say that, wouldn't he".
 
Ves said:
Did you realise that China, India, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea to name a few have all had some kind of advanced political discussions regarding (or in some cases have implemented) a tax on carbon dioxide emissions?

The tax itself is not large enough to destroy any cost advantage that our energy industry may or may not have (your words, not mine).

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201203/s3461101.htm

This source, I am not sure how valid you think it is, predicts that our coal exports will triple over the next decade.

You seem to be acting more out of emotion than any logic.

edit: in regards to manufacturing, our industries here have been in a long, slow decline for a long time now... I don't think the carbon tax has anything to do with that.
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Well that must be the reason China and India have bought the only two coal mines in W.A.:confused:
Apparently they think there is an advantage in owning cheap energy and yes, I'm sure they will put a tax on it to make it more expensive for themselves. What a hoot LOL,LOL,LOL

Also I'm sure the coal exports will triple over the next decade, also I'm sure India and China will own the mines.LOL,LOL,LOL
Put your head in the sand while the sun is shinning, when it gets cold and you pull your head out, it will be different.

Have a read of this.
http://www.corrs.com.au/thinking/insights/the-great-indian-coal-rush/

We are throwing away our living standards to give our fuel away. One day we will be there, or our grandchildren will be there with their hands out. Sad just very sad. IMO
 
bellenuit said:
You are correct in saying that the full force of the carbon tax hasn't been felt yet. However, I think the problem for Abbott is that the carbon tax will not be accounted for as a distinguishable item in the myriad of cost factors that make up the cost of doing business. It would be too complex to do. The more time the carbon tax has to flow through and be recycled through the economy, the greater the cumulative impact of it will be (the multiplier effect at play) but also the more difficult it becomes to identify the percentage of any cost increases down the line to any particular cost at the origin.

Abbott needed the carbon tax to have an immediate and detrimental impact on the economy for his predictions to be vindicated, as the cause-effect is then at its most obvious. It is now too late. Even if the economy tanks over the next few years no one will be able to say that the carbon tax was the fault and without it we would have been OK. Abbott blaming the carbon tax for the eventual demise would be viewed as "well he would say that, wouldn't he".
Click to expand...
You've more adequately expressed what I was attempting to point out.
My electricity bill arrived today and was considerably less than I was anticipating. That's contrary to what Mr Abbott has been insisting would happen.

Ves said:
Did you realise that China, India, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea to name a few have all had some kind of advanced political discussions regarding (or in some cases have implemented) a tax on carbon dioxide emissions?
Click to expand...
"Advanced political discussions"???? Anyone can have discussions about anything. Until our major trading partners are operating under the same conditions as Australia, our industry is disadvantaged.

You seem to be acting more out of emotion than any logic.
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And perhaps your views might be somewhat coloured by your political bias?
 
budget-cutss-ays-tony-abbott/story-e6frf7jo-1226501248569"]http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/coalition-may-support-wayne-swans-budget-cutss-ays-tony-abbott/story-e6frf7jo-1226501248569[/URL]
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Oh God Tony!

Let it go.

This is one where I agree with Labor, infact the baby bonus should be done away with alltogether, although I do question their underlying motivation for the move.

The baby bonus itself was one of Howard's sillier ideas.
 
One of the more interesting changes from the MYEFO is the change from 3-monthly to monthly payment of company tax. In the year in which it takes effect, a compant will effectively be paying 14 months tax in 12.

This effectively raises the corporate tax rate from 30% to 35% for one year.

It will be interesting to see what that does for business confidence.
 
drsmith said:
Oh God Tony!

Let it go.

This is one where I agree with Labor, infact the baby bonus should be done away with alltogether, although I do question their underlying motivation for the move.

The baby bonus itself was one of Howard's sillier ideas.
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agreed, there should be no incentive on personal behaviours, including maternity leave programs that basically treat stay at home mums as second class women. The politcal reality is that it should be reduced gradually to nothing. Labour once again doing the right thing for 'wrong' reasons, which I guess I cant be too upset about
 
white_goodman said:
agreed, there should be no incentive on personal behaviours, including maternity leave programs that basically treat stay at home mums as second class women. The politcal reality is that it should be reduced gradually to nothing. Labour once again doing the right thing for 'wrong' reasons, which I guess I cant be too upset about
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It's a hard one, the point is if you cant afford a baby dont have one but now it's here how do you roll it back ?

Good thing is that Gillard is so insensitive that she can take the rap for this part of it, wont get her many votes as it's obviously a misogynist move against women:D
 
drsmith said:
Oh God Tony!

Let it go.

This is one where I agree with Labor, infact the baby bonus should be done away with alltogether, although I do question their underlying motivation for the move.

The baby bonus itself was one of Howard's sillier ideas.
Click to expand...
+1. There was a woman babbling on in "PM" last night about how upset she was that the baby bonus had been trimmed. She whined that it had allowed them to have "some little extras" for their three children, but now that it wouldn't be the full $5000, they might not be able to afford the fourth!

It should never have been introduced. It encouraged all the wrong people to have babies for the wrong reasons.
(that's undoubtedly a hugely politically incorrect statement).
 
Julia said:
It should never have been introduced. It encouraged all the wrong people to have babies for the wrong reasons.
(that's undoubtedly a hugely politically incorrect statement).
Click to expand...

If they chopped the bonus for the first child it would cut out most of that.
 

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