The Gillard Government

[bellenuit]

Where did these funds originally come from? Was it from union dues paid by members of the union, believing their contributions were to be used for their own support and assistance?

I believe they were from building companies who thought they were contributing to a fund to improve health and safety in the building industry. One I saw mentioned was Thiess (sp?). Even though they eventually found out their contributions were misused, they (at least Thiess) didn't request the money back. I believe that was one of the reasons no action was ever taken.

 

[sptrawler]

The question of his attitude toward women did not come up in the interview. Probably you should watch the interview or at least read the transcript in order to draw your own conclusions about whether (a) her questions were justified, and/or (b) his answers were reasonable and appropriate.
Will be interested to hear your conclusion after you have done this.
Here is the interview and the transcript:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3573785.htm

It was essentially about the BHP postponement announcement and Mr Abbott's contradiction of Marius Kloppers' assurance that the taxation environment was not an influencing factor in the decision, something Mr Abbott proceeded to contradict, despite admitting he had not read Mr Kloppers' remarks.
Then she went on to question him about asylum seekers.

Thanks for the link to the transcript, Julia, from reading it Leigh seemed well prepared and well versed on what she was going to ask.
She also refused to let go and allow Abbott to move off her topic.
Actually a lot of rhetoric sounded similar to Gillards. Not being funny but I wonder if Leigh will get preselection.

 

[sails]

Why then are the Union not making an official complaint to the police on this? I must be missing something.

Julia, if you read up on it, Ian Cambridge tried and I understand he would like to see a royal commission. I think his affadivit (or part of it) was in the link I posted with the photo of the cheque. Both Thomas Hedley and Andrew Bolt have had a bit on it lately - would think their lawyers would be all over it before it is made public.

 

[sails]

Thanks for the link to the transcript, Julia, from reading it Leigh seemed well prepared and well versed on what she was going to ask.
She also refused to let go and allow Abbott to move off her topic.
Actually a lot of rhetoric sounded similar to Gillards. Not being funny but I wonder if Leigh will get preselection.

SP, the transcript doesn't show Leigh Sales bitter face and twisted lips - she almost seemed to be spitting at Abbott. The despise and disgust she oozed was unbelievable. And Abbott's mistake - he hadn't read the statement from BHP. Apparently the interview was recorded earlier in the day, so that could have been an issue. I don't know, but I can't believe the nit picking that goes on over Abbott when Gillard and labor have blatantly deceived voters over carbon tax, legislated it and then try to make it look like it is a nothing.

I think the anti-Abbott attacks are more about destabilising the libs and trying to drag the libs into the gutter with labor. Abbott has his mistakes and doesn't speak well (but so does Gillard drone), but I don't get the shameful attacks for someone who seems to have very little wrong. Pretty much bully behaviour, imo, but he never complains.

Even in the Leigh Sales attacks, Abbott stayed calm and I didn't see him become heated in his exchange. Frustrated, yes, but he remained polite. Most people would have been ready to swipe her she was being so rude and aggressive, imo.

 

[IFocus]

SP, the transcript doesn't show Leigh Sales bitter face and twisted lips - she almost seemed to be spitting at Abbott. The despise and disgust she oozed was unbelievable.

Bit over the top there I though she was pretty easy on him given he kept ducking the questions.

And Abbott's mistake - he hadn't read the statement from BHP.

The fault was he was making claims that were untrue i.e. he is a real liar and got caught out as per Laurie Oaks column not that he hadn't read the statement.

Even in the Leigh Sales attacks, Abbott stayed calm and I didn't see him become heated in his exchange. Frustrated, yes, but he remained polite. Most people would have been ready to swipe her she was being so rude and aggressive, imo.

I never saw the 7.30 live and after yours and others claims I checked it out Sales was the frustrated one as Abbott wouldn't answer the questions.

At the end of the interview Abbott knew he had blown it.

 

[startrader]

Thanks for the link to the transcript, Julia, from reading it Leigh seemed well prepared and well versed on what she was going to ask.
She also refused to let go and allow Abbott to move off her topic.
Actually a lot of rhetoric sounded similar to Gillards. Not being funny but I wonder if Leigh will get preselection.

I thought that Abbott was absolutely correct in what he said regarding BHP. As he said, all year BHP have been saying that the taxes are affecting their current and proposed investments here in a negative way and they were being extremely cautious in the statement here that they were making on the mothballing of Olympic Dam. As reported in The Australian yesterday the very next day Kloppers was overseas telling the British the real reasons for it not going ahead.


"Despite reassuring Australians that the taxes were not to blame for BHP’s mothballing of the $US30 billion Olympic Dam expansion, Mr Kloppers referred to both when telling British media that new investments in Australia’s coal sector would not be profitable…
'What I am seeing on the eastern seaboard in Australia is that the coal industry has been very heavily impacted by lower prices, higher operating costs, carbon taxes and increased royalties,' he said."

 

[dutchie]

I think Tony and the Liberal party have made a big tactical mistake. They have tried to make everything that Labor does a negative. This is not necessary as they (Labor) have done enough already to hang themselves.

We know that we want to get rid of this current government and for this to happen we need Tony to perform well. He has not recently and he needs to lift his game.

He needs to draw back a bit and not try to make Labor look bad in every way and every minute of the political spectrum. Just focus on the mistakes they have already made. Don't make any over the top statements that may not or can not be substantiated. Labor will damage themselves enough without his help.

So chill out a bit Tony, sometimes saying nothing is better than saying too much.

 

[Calliope]

I think the anti-Abbott attacks are more about destabilising the libs and trying to drag the libs into the gutter with labor. Abbott has his mistakes and doesn't speak well (but so does Gillard drone), but I don't get the shameful attacks for someone who seems to have very little wrong. Pretty much bully behaviour, imo, but he never complains.

Barrie Cassidy on Insiders this morning, with the help of his panel confirmed what some posters have been saying; that while Gillard has acquitted herself well, Abbott on the other hand;

. hates strong women, and is sexist and a misogynist,

. has no sympathy for people with disabilities,

. wants to cut funding to public schools,

. tells lies about the carbon tax,

. is very negative.

When Cassidy announced that the guest would be Craig Emerson, I thought "ah - this will be interesting, we will get the views of one of Gillard's former lovers on the Gillard/Wilson affair."

However Barrie did not ask him a single question about it. Emerson was allowed an almost uninterrupted rant on Tony Abbott.

 

[Julia]

I thought that Abbott was absolutely correct in what he said regarding BHP. As he said, all year BHP have been saying that the taxes are affecting their current and proposed investments here in a negative way and they were being extremely cautious in the statement here that they were making on the mothballing of Olympic Dam. As reported in The Australian yesterday the very next day Kloppers was overseas telling the British the real reasons for it not going ahead.


"Despite reassuring Australians that the taxes were not to blame for BHP’s mothballing of the $US30 billion Olympic Dam expansion, Mr Kloppers referred to both when telling British media that new investments in Australia’s coal sector would not be profitable…
'What I am seeing on the eastern seaboard in Australia is that the coal industry has been very heavily impacted by lower prices, higher operating costs, carbon taxes and increased royalties,' he said."

For heaven's sake, Olympic Dam is not a coal mine. Read back on this thread a couple of pages.
Mr Kloppers is referring to the eastern seaboard and the coal industry in your own quote.
Olympic Dam is in South Australia.

I think Tony and the Liberal party have made a big tactical mistake. They have tried to make everything that Labor does a negative. This is not necessary as they (Labor) have done enough already to hang themselves.

We know that we want to get rid of this current government and for this to happen we need Tony to perform well. He has not recently and he needs to lift his game.

He needs to draw back a bit and not try to make Labor look bad in every way and every minute of the political spectrum. Just focus on the mistakes they have already made. Don't make any over the top statements that may not or can not be substantiated. Labor will damage themselves enough without his help.

So chill out a bit Tony, sometimes saying nothing is better than saying too much.

+1.

 

[medicowallet]

For heaven's sake, Olympic Dam is not a coal mine. Read back on this thread a couple of pages.
Mr Kloppers is referring to the eastern seaboard and the coal industry in your own quote.
Olympic Dam is in South Australia.



+1.

It is true that olympic dam is not subject to MRRT.

However if cashflow is decreased and assets have to be written down due to decreased valuations, this definitely decreases the ability to fund projects such as olympic dam.

So, in reality, I wouldn't be surprised if, along with the slowdown in China's appetite, the MRRT and carbon tax have helped shelve the expansion.

I just love the irony that increased supply will now be derived from places such as South America and Africa, which likely have lower environmental standards and/or increased transport emissions etc.

What we truly need is some real, worldwide consideration, that is, if we truly believe that man is causing dangerous global warming (of which I am not yet convinced)

MW

 

[Julia]

SP, the transcript doesn't show Leigh Sales bitter face and twisted lips - she almost seemed to be spitting at Abbott.

I suppose we see what we expect to see. I saw the whole interview and thought her expression was pretty much as usual, though frustrated at not getting an answer to her questions.

And Abbott's mistake - he hadn't read the statement from BHP.

Given that he was on 7.30 as follow up to his earlier contradiction of Marius Klopper's statement that the taxation environment was not a factor in the postponement of Olympic Dam, wouldn't you have expected him to read that statement and be clear about what had been said?

And then he made a bad situation worse by the following day attempting to say he'd been answering something Sales had not asked!

Apparently the interview was recorded earlier in the day, so that could have been an issue. I don't know, but I can't believe the nit picking that goes on over Abbott when Gillard and labor have blatantly deceived voters over carbon tax, legislated it and then try to make it look like it is a nothing.

And they have been mightily taken to task for so doing by most of the electorate and most of the media.

Abbott has his mistakes and doesn't speak well (but so does Gillard drone), but I don't get the shameful attacks for someone who seems to have very little wrong.

Again, not a criticism, but you're seeing what you want to. It's not just his manner of speaking, but far more what he's actually saying, viz the above.

Even in the Leigh Sales attacks, Abbott stayed calm and I didn't see him become heated in his exchange. Frustrated, yes, but he remained polite.

Yes, he was polite. But he was refusing to respond reasonably to her questions.

Sails, can you really not see the problems in that interview?

 

[sails]

Barrie Cassidy on Insiders this morning, with the help of his panel confirmed what some posters have been saying; that while Gillard has acquitted herself well, Abbott on the other hand;

. hates strong women, and is sexist and a misogynist,

. has no sympathy for people with disabilities,

. wants to cut funding to public schools,

. tells lies about the carbon tax,

. is very negative....

haha... and they reckon Abbott is negative. Do they ever listen to themselves? Pot, kettle, black!

 

[sails]

...Sails, can you really not see the problems in that interview?

Julia, I guess you are wanting perfection from Abbott. Who else do you suggest who is more perfect? I know you listen a lot to the ABC and from what I hear, they spend more time denigrating Abbott than they do looking into Gillard's problems.

At this stage it's either Abbott or Gillard. We don't have much choice and I see Abbott as way more preferable (not perfect) than Gillard. Maybe you would rather this labor government have another term, I don't know, but it seems the majority of Aussie voters don't want our economy to be potentially crippled as time goes by with carbon tax and other unwanted legislation such as their seeming plan to silence freedom of speech. Probably something else you don't hear from the ABC.

You seem very silent on the possible issues of Gillard's 17 years ago which probably need a royal commission and, instead, seem to spend your time bagging Abbott. The left have been trying desperately to bring Abbott down and they have his difficulty with interviews and fluency of speech to their advantage - which they use with force. And yet, what has Abbott actually done wrong? He doesn't have serious questions on his past, has a loving family - all daughters which makes a mockery of the left's taunts about his being unable to relate to women. The nasty taunts from the left seem nothing more than unsubstantiated bully behaviour.

I suspect the left are desperate to get rid of Abbott because he is doing a good job in opposition. The left don't want their precious carbon tax repealed, so they call for Turnbull to be leader again. Sure Abbott could improve his speaking and interviewing skills, but perhaps this is something that doesn't come naturally and difficult to correct. I don't know.

When he refused to go with Gillard on the Malaysian disaster, I remember you were critical of him and felt he shouldn't be playing politics. Surely you can see now that he did the right thing? The left have had a massively negative campaign on him which I think is way over the top and bully like.

I don't defend him because of religion - as long as a leader does the right thing by the people, shows respect for tax payer funds and uses them wisely and respects democracy, I would say they are doing a good job regardless of their personal beliefs or lack of. I just don't think anyone deserves to be the target of such a massively negative campaign over such silly issues.

So, it's awkward Abbott or gangrenous Gillard - that's how I see it.

 

[Calliope]

So, it's awkward Abbott or gangrenous Gillard - that's how I see it.

The choice is a no-brainer. Some people want perfection. You and I have to settle for the cards we are dealt. As a conservative I must admit that Abbott doessn't tick all the boxes, but Gillard, Roxon, Pilbersek and Wong scare the living daylights out of me.

 

[bunyip]

Keith D’Lacy, former treasurer in the Queensland ALP government of Wayne Goss, made some interesting comments on the Bolt Report this evening.

He was scathing in his criticism of the carbon tax, saying among other things that it would achieve absolutely nothing except to burden business.

He was also critical of how difficult its become in the last four or five years to get a new mining project up and running.
He spoke about the Coppabella coal mine west of Mackay which in his day took 15 months from discovery of the resource until first production from the mine. Today the average time is around five years, according to him, due to some 1500 conditions having to be met by the developer. As an example of the absurdity of some of these conditions, he gave an example where one of the conditions was that redback spiders found on the site had to be relocated!

 

[sptrawler]

Well this report just shows how paranoid labor are over their dismal time in government.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...-for-abbott-on-carbon-tax-20120826-24u7d.html

That smacks of absolute panic mode, probably due to the result of the NT election.
Ifocus says labor are doing well in W.A, I would say wait for the election results before you decide.
My call is labor will be hammered, McGowan will do better than Ripper, but that is the difference between hammered and completely wiped out.
All parties have to adapt and adjust, W.A labor have done so and will get a bit of sympathy vote back, otherwise they wouldn't be a political party anymore.

 

[sails]

Well this report just shows how paranoid labor are over their dismal time in government.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...-for-abbott-on-carbon-tax-20120826-24u7d.html

That smacks of absolute panic mode, probably due to the result of the NT election.
Ifocus says labor are doing well in W.A, I would say wait for the election results before you decide.
My call is labor will be hammered, McGowan will do better than Ripper, but that is the difference between hammered and completely wiped out.
All parties have to adapt and adjust, W.A labor have done so and will get a bit of sympathy vote back, otherwise they wouldn't be a political party anymore.

SP - just look at the title of that article you posted: Labor goes for Abbott on carbon tax...

Labor seem to overlook the fact that the majority of Aussie voters never wanted a carbon tax. Only a couple of weeks before, Newspoll showed that 59% were opposed. Voters have long memories and will not forget. They can blame Abbott till the cows come home, but the fact is Gillard promised no carbon tax as a pre-election commitment, backflipped without taking it to the people and then danced in parliament when it was legislated against the wishes of the majority.

And then they try to make out it is nothing and that Abbott is overdoing it. Rubbish. I don't appreciate paying higher electricity bills plus whatever carbon tax is adding to the general cost of living. Abbott is right. This is an unnecessary tax which has the potential to hurt our economy and rob working families of some of their hard earned pay. Shameful.

 

[drsmith]

It is true that olympic dam is not subject to MRRT.

However if cashflow is decreased and assets have to be written down due to decreased valuations, this definitely decreases the ability to fund projects such as olympic dam.

TA commented on this in a press conferenct the following day.

To me, the bigger issue for him was how he tied himself into exaggeration and contradictions than what he said specifically. When the Olympic Dam announcement was made by BHP, he could have commented about the impact of Labor's taxed on the viability of resources projects in general without referring specifically to BHP's announcement. If Labor then came after him, he could have then pointed out Labor's contradiction to Marius Kloppers after his London speech of the impact on iron ore. That does require a level of hindsight, or perhaps close enough contact between TA's staff and BHP itself.

Otherwise, he could have simply showed more discression in the battles he fights, said nothing about Olympic Dam and then jumped on Marius Kloppers comments about coal. Either way, he would have looked much better than he did.

 

[sptrawler]

SP - just look at the title of that article you posted: Labor goes for Abbott on carbon tax...

Labor seem to overlook the fact that the majority of Aussie voters never wanted a carbon tax. Only a couple of weeks before, Newspoll showed that 59% were opposed. Voters have long memories and will not forget. They can blame Abbott till the cows come home, but the fact is Gillard promised no carbon tax as a pre-election commitment, backflipped without taking it to the people and then danced in parliament when it was legislated against the wishes of the majority.

And then they try to make out it is nothing and that Abbott is overdoing it. Rubbish. I don't appreciate paying higher electricity bills plus whatever carbon tax is adding to the general cost of living. Abbott is right. This is an unnecessary tax which has the potential to hurt our economy and rob working families of some of their hard earned pay. Shameful.

Yes sails, everyone needs to just sit back a bit, take a breath. At the moment there has been a huge shift in labors stance. They are trying to distance themselves from the Greens, they are at the same time trying to consolidate a gender based upswell against Abbott. Labor have generally favourable press, so it will take a disciplined coalition to overcome the bias.
This can only be done if Abbott can hold his own in an interview and expose the flaws in the reporters arguments. If he can't do this, the labor sympathetic reporters will just expose it and it will get worse nearer the election.
He has to get on top of it, or give the batton to someone else.

Don't get too stressed, it is only about who gets an indexed pension. The outcome doesn't change much, whoever gets in.

 

[drsmith]

SP - just look at the title of that article you posted: Labor goes for Abbott on carbon tax...

Immediate effect ??

Labor's digging a hole for itself there.