Rudd Government failings vs. achievements

[sptrawler]

Jeez you have got me going. The next thing coming through the Rudd spin machine is the extra money to pensioners. From the feedback from my Mum it has been swallowed up by increases in rent,electricity. so all they are doing is stopping pensioners eating dog food. Then what about all the mums and dads with Telstra shares "Buy them and look after your own future" I know they were floated by the Liberals but at the time the Labour party said "$3.40 all you are doing is looking after your fat cat mates". The next float over $7 woopee. Now you have the Government deciding you want high speed internet BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

[Whiskers]

What about the insulation scheme?

Last post from me on this subject. Getting boring and wasting time.

Lol... you're starting to sound like Rudd.

1. That's my final offer. there will not be any extra cash... -> another offer with more cash.
   
2. I'm not backing down on this matter... -> backdown.

Ignorance is no excuse for incompetence or negligence.

...-> not quite last post!

Responses for Insultation should be directed here: -

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/for...ion#post553054

Oops, and yet another post, and... back to the top... who persued the digression.

 

[drsmith]

There are two major problems with this government as I see it.

1) Failure to implement policy satisfactorily. This could be a product of too much power in the hands of too few few (or one ?) within the ALP leading to policy formulation and implementation from a too narrower perspective.

2) An ideology too far towards re-distributing the economic pie and not enough towards growing it (socialism).

This government is no Hawke/Keating government sadly.

 

[trainspotter]

Lol... you're starting to sound like Rudd.

1. That's my final offer. there will not be any extra cash... -> another offer with more cash.
   
2. I'm not backing down on this matter... -> backdown.

...-> not quite last post!



Oops, and yet another post, and... back to the top... who persued the digression.

LOLOLOL Whiskers ... you really need to learn how to spell old ****. Once again you have FAILED just like Rudd.

The subject I was referrring to was the Insulation Debacle which you have focused on in this thread. I posted the "ignorance is no excuse for incompetence or negligence" is that you are displaying for your inabilty to grasp the most basic of comprehension on the subject matter at hand.

I also posted that the manure you are spreading belongs in another thread ... off topic again and getting boring.

Yes I have posted again in response to your trolling. Well done Whiskers ... I believe you will go far in the Labor Party. *slow hand clap and exit stage right*

Back to the topic RUDD is a FAIL ....... full stop.

Achievement - The ability to have apparently intelligent people troll for replies.

 

[sptrawler]

Rudd Government failings can be summed up as: Kev says "put your hands on your heads" Kev says "put your hands on your hips" . OH that didn't work Kev says"put your head between your legs and kiss ****** "you know the rest

 

[todster]

If Whiskers stopped posting what would the usual suspects quote?

 

[Julia]

By looking at value for money in individual projects, do you mean an independant costing of every project? That cost would have been significant and I don't recall any governments going to that length to scrutinise their own spending programs. Please provide evidence if that's what you think is the norm.

Whiskers, you appear to have unlimited time to construct verbose and largely illogical posts. That's quite up to you. But if you imagine I'm going to trawl through the various media to find you verbatim quotes of the rorting, then you will be sorely disappointed.

To be candid, I'm now convinced you are just trolling. Your remarks don't demonstrate any genuine capacity to consider the realities.

I will just say two things:

There was a detailed report in "The Australian" a few weeks ago which quoted the costs for a considerable proportion (more than half) of the schools building as being double per square metrefor a simple single storey hall or library compared to a multi storey office block in the much more awkward building situation of a CBD, including elevators, multiple ablution facilities per floor etc etc..

I don't recall whether is was Gillard or someone else where I heard that 95% of school principals were relatively happy with the work they got.

Of course they're going to say that unless the outcome is really badly built. There is no suggestion that the actual buildings have been substandard, just that they are simply not value for our taxpayer dollars.

But, since 'value' is a rather subjective term, there is more than one way to ascertain whether there was widespread reckless or frauduland spending and the Auditor General found that 95% of School principals were relatively happy.

It's not subjective at all, if you simply compare cost per sq metre for like buildings.

The schools were not permitted to get their own quotes for what they wanted and were not permitted to ensure there was real value for money.
Instead large contracts to major construction firms were let. these firms building in various extra 'project fees' and similarly euphemistic terms to cover the excessive cost.
Some parent teacher associations raised strong objections but were overruled. It is, however, due to their persistence that any investigation at all is happening.

Given the hundreds of projects undertaken, the few bad one's I've seen are certainly bad, but certainly not an extreme number in the total scheme of things. As a mate of mine used to say, sometimes **** happens. I recall some departmental investigation was indicated re some of these cases. There may have even been some sackings or reallocation of duties and still time for fraud charges if applicable. Be a bit patient to let (or get involved in the process of) justice take it's course and see what eventually pans out.

Terrific, Whiskers. Let's just all sit back and smile, and say oh well it will all work out in the end! For god's sake, some of us actually care about how our tax dollars are spent, especially when we have people struggling to exist on miserable benefits, people who are homeless, who can't get a hospital bed etc. Where is your sense of priorities?

All true, the problem is every man and his dog ran out to become an batt installer. You also had guys start up as sole traders and had no experience except for a 2 week course (think it was that long?).

Ah moXJO, you exaggerate. The course was two whole days. I know this because one of the quotes I got came from a bloke who was a carpenter.
He said when he came to do the quote: "This is the easiest money I've ever made in my life, I'm just raking it in for doing next to nothing."
He went on to say that all he had to do was spend five minutes on the internet to register, go down to the Gold Coast and sit through people talking about insulation for two days, no questions asked at the end or assessment of the competence of the participating would-be installers, and off he went.

He came back and was able to employ as many additional installers as he wanted, none of whom were required to do the course or have any qualifications or experience. All was just okey dokey as long as he himself had done the two days.

He quoted 50% more than did the two long established firms from whom I also received quotes. Although I had no intention of using this shyster, I suggested he needed to reduce his quote to be more reasonable if he wanted the work. "Not on your life", he said, "I have as much work as I need at the price I'm charging".
So there you are, there's a first hand example of the sort of crap that has gone on.

And here's one more: I eventually decided I wouldn't have the insulation installed after all, so cancelled the arrangement I'd made with a well known national firm. To my amazement, several months later, a bunch of paper arrived in the mail, declaring that insulation was installed to the exact value of $1600 (the amount of the subsidy) in September at my address.
Would I please sign the attached form and return so they could claim from the government.

I reported this fraud to the government hotline, and guess what, Whiskers?
They just didn't want to know about it. Didn't want to take down the name of the firm or any other details. So much for the government wanting to know about any rorting.
So I sent the details to the Opposition. They were decidedly more interested.

 

[Whiskers]

The solution would appear to be zero acceptance of any immigrants who don't apply through the legal channels. They want to come here, either they apply through the legal processes or they miss out.
That way we can't be accused of being anti-immigration or lacking in compassion or whatever. Not that I think we should give a stuff what anyone else thinks - this is our country to run as we see fit, and the rest of the world can shove their opinions up their jumpers.

Yes, largely agree, but we are for better or worse, party to international conventions that compell us to at least process and accept some political asylum sekers that land on our shores.

But I think a much stronger case could be made that most, especially those who travelled past numerous embassies and paid smugglers to get them onto our shores en mass, should be treated prima facie as conspiring to attempt illegal entry and simply deported to their home country. Assylum should not even be considered from those who demonstrate, criminality, an attempt to circumvent the law.

 

[Bobby]

Great last post Julia , still shaking my head !!

Cheers Bob.

 

[sptrawler]

Well Jullia, I haven't had first hand experience like you,`but anyone can see what a disaster would happen with Rudd running the hospitals with 30% of the G.S.T and the $43 billion for the NBN

 

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, you appear to have unlimited time to construct verbose and largely illogical posts.

No and No. You just don't get that I was just pointing out the facts as the law stands.

I've yet to be proven wrong or even challenged on the legal aspects... just too much emotional finger pointing.

Now I don't care how much you blame Rudd or even if he gets voted out... my concern is that too many people are giving the dodgy operators and fraudsters a free ride and not at least equally blaming them.

I refer you back to my earlier drunk driver examples. Hotel open hours is another forseeable recipe for trouble that the gov doesn't always post extra police to protect people from themselves or from others. It happens all the time but is no excuse for people to break the law and endanger others in the process.

It's not subjective at all, if you simply compare cost per sq metre for like buildings.

But you highlight exactly my point.

By subjective (opinion) you see the cost in isolation that single buildings should be compared to optimum price controls.

I acknowledge that it would be best for gov's to perform work at optimum costs, but the reality is that rarely happens either at local, state or fed levels at the best of times.

But, your 'subjective' view (opinion) doesn't acknowledge two things:

1. The exceptional circumstances of the GFC and the macro objective (factual economic benefit) of the scheme that most economists say was a good thing... to get a heap of construction underway in a hurry to boost employment, business activity and avoid going into recession, and
   
2. the cost premium for getting work organised in a hurry.

An objective (measurable facts) view of the stimulus by most economists say it was necessary and successfull in stimulating economic activity, reducing unemployment and avoiding recession.

Also the subjective view (opinion) of most economists say that the greater good of paying lots of people to build something, as opposed to paying the dole (and doing nothing) and successfully avoiding a recession, is value for the additional cost of the urgency of this work in the greater economic good.

Just highlighting the difference in subjective value of the scheme... but I know it doesn't ease the pain of those exorbitant cost examples from a local point of view.

 

[Logique]

There are two major problems with this government as I see it.

1) Failure to implement policy satisfactorily. This could be a product of too much power in the hands of too few few (or one ?) within the ALP leading to policy formulation and implementation from a too narrower perspective.

2) An ideology too far towards re-distributing the economic pie and not enough towards growing it (socialism).

This government is no Hawke/Keating government sadly.

Well said Dr Zachary. The May budget is a house of cards, because it is based on expected future revenue from the miners. The govt simply refuses to comprehend the industry dynamics of the Australian resources industry. Except that is, when they want to criticize the former government - ie '..the Coalition only had a surplus because of the resources boom..'.

The budgetary effects of the proposed 'Canadian Miners Stimulus Package' (RSPT), would imho surprise the govt to the downside. We are already seeing domestic projects shelved in favour of overseas ones.

 

[trainspotter]

Once again I reiterate that responses to the "Insulation Debacle" be placed in the appropriate thread. This is directed at YOU Whiskers. BTW ... Julia knocked you out of the park. FAIL ~ !!

 

[nioka]

Once again I reiterate that responses to the "Insulation Debacle" be placed in the appropriate thread. This is directed at YOU Whiskers. BTW ... Julia knocked you out of the park. FAIL ~ !!

As I see it, Whiskers replied to a post here. ????????????????????????? As todster inferred, what would you have to post about if there were no posts by Whiskers.

At least Whiskers is putting forward rational arguments. You can't say that about a lot af the biased anti Rudd regardless posters.

Try posting about a stock. After all this used to be a stock forum.

P.S. This post is made just to feed the trolls.

 

[trainspotter]

As I see it, Whiskers replied to a post here. ????????????????????????? As todster inferred, what would you have to post about if there were no posts by Whiskers.

At least Whiskers is putting forward rational arguments. You can't say that about a lot af the biased anti Rudd regardless posters.

Try posting about a stock. After all this used to be a stock forum.

I would prefer to post nothing then read inaccurate statments. I would prefer to read inaccurate statments in the correct thread and then post a response inaccurately.

Whiskers responses are not rational. Once cornered the inducement is to change tactic or simply not answer the question. Some of the people that post in here are DEFINITELY anti PM Kevin Rudd. I am anti a government that squanders money and produces wastage. I have given the Leader of the Opposition Tony Abbott a serve of venom in other threads as well.

BTW this thread is titles "Rudd Government failings vs. achievements" and not about the legalities of the Employment Act. But you with your IQ of 142 would understand this nioka. Andy Warhol had an IQ of 86 by the way.

I am more than happy to continue this discussion in the appropriate thread about the "Insulation Debacle".

As far as I am aware this is the "General Chat" part of ASF and not the Investment Section or Stocks. It is allowable to post freely in here as a member is it not?

P.S. - Loved your P.S.

 

[Whiskers]

Well said Dr Zachary. The May budget is a house of cards, because it is based on expected future revenue from the miners.

I agree there. It's got the job ahead of it to get it all through the senate in tact. But as someone suggested, they may succeed in winning over the greens to get the numbers.

The govt simply refuses to comprehend the industry dynamics of the Australian resources industry.

I think they do based on Henry's report. But there's no doubt it's a dareing proposition. See the Mining Tax Grab - How will it pan out thread https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19464

The budgetary effects of the proposed 'Canadian Miners Stimulus Package' (RSPT), would imho surprise the govt to the downside. We are already seeing domestic projects shelved in favour of overseas ones.

BUT Canada cannot sustain that stimulus for long and the miners know that. It will only be a tempory handout. Look at the level of their debt compared to Aus at my previous post #293 & #295.

Once again I reiterate that responses to the "Insulation Debacle" be placed in the appropriate thread. This is directed at YOU Whiskers. BTW ... Julia knocked you out of the park. FAIL ~ !!

What's up mate.

Troll: someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community.

As pointed out earlier you led the thread off topic and are now crying foul because all your trolling failed to get the result you wanted.

As I am trying to point out ad nauseum, some of you don't or can't:

1. destinguish the legal issues from the political, and
2. my concern is that too many people are giving the dodgy operators and fraudsters a free ride and not at least equally blaming them for perpetuating the problem.

To say it's all the gov's fault is just plain nonsense.

Further to the subjectivity of the value for money point, you might recall a similarar controvosy when Howard sent our troops to war set up privately run detention centres, the Pacific Solution and compiled a bailout of his brothers failed company. The costs were substantial and while many didn't like it, the greater economic good was the justifing end regardless of the isolated cost of the war, individual detention centre's or concern re mates favours.

I repeat again, inefficient spending on projects if you want to cost them in isolation is nothing new for gov. It's not ideal, just pragmatic that it happens sometimes in their haste to achieve a greater good.

PS: trainspotter, mate... concentrate, focus... I'm focused on the subjectivity of some of the blame for the gov failings.

 

[Happy]

...

I repeat again, inefficient spending on projects if you want to cost them in isolation is nothing new for gov. It's not ideal, just pragmatic that it happens sometimes in their haste to achieve a greater good.
...

I am not too happy about the reason and the ultimate aim of greater good which in my opinion is to be just re-elected.

 

[sam76]

I started the thread

I say let 'er rip.

 

[Calliope]

I just watched the 7.30 report, with Kerry O'Brien interviewing Rudd. Rudd refused to answer any questions. He responds to any question with a set spiel which we have heard over and over coming out of his prissy mouth. He would talk under wet cement.

O'Brien tried to pin him on why he wouldn't go to a double dissolution on the "greatest moral challenge of our times" the ETS, and even implied that it was cowardice. Rudd got rattled but raved on without answering the question.

What a rat!

 

[noco]

I just watched the 7.30 report, with Kerry O'Brien interviewing Rudd. Rudd refused to answer any questions. He responds to any question with a set spiel which we have heard over and over coming out of his prissy mouth. He would talk under wet cement.

O'Brien tried to pin him on why he wouldn't go to a double dissolution on the "greatest moral challenge of our times" the ETS, and even implied that it was cowardice. Rudd got rattled but raved on without answering the question.

What a rat!

Yes Calliope, he was absolutely pathetic. Blamed everything and everybody but himself. So much for the "BUCK STOPS WITH ME". He just cannot help himself with his spin and BS!!!!!!!!!

I was waiting for O'Brien to ask him why he (Rudd) reneged on taking over the hospital system like he said he would instead of offering a watered down funding arrangement.