Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi All. Like Zeva & Hogan we have never posted before but once asked to stand up & 'be counted' here we are. 100,000. I'm sure there are many others who love to read all the posts & be kept updated but don't feel they have anything as valuable to contribute as all the smart savvy tireless workers that write so often here. Without this we would know absolutely nothing. I'm sure I'm speaking for many others when I thank the contributors for their fantastic efforts & investigations & postings.

The 100,000 Units are my 85 year old Dad's. It's 100% of his wealth, well what was his wealth. Needless to say the events that have passed have gravely affected his health. He continually talks about 'selling' and I'm not sure what he means. Can he sell at any time on the stock market & what would he get at this week's rate? Would this be a wise option, given his age? Anyone like to be brave enough to say there is a possibility (probability?) of any light at the end of this tunnel? Is there any reason to be more optimistic this month than say 3 months ago? What would you recommend to your Dad?

Any opinions welcome & once again thanks to the contributors who have not just taken this littany of mismanagement lying down. It's not just about the theft of money, its also about the right to be treated fairly and with honesty & integrity. Please don't stop until the dishonest are singled out & punished so they can't cause the same grief to others. You guys are GREAT!!!!

Hi DepressedDad, Your dad can sell his units on the NSX http://www.nsxa.com.au/prices_alpha.asp?nsxcode=PIN The last trade was for 17cents per unit on the 25th Nov and the highest bid listed at present is 17.5 cents for 95,000 units. A far cry from our original $1.00 per unit purchase price. I don't know what to advise you in relation to holding or selling. Most investors would be hoping to receive something back from the Class Action but if your father is participating in the IMF CA should any money be recovered he would be entitled to his share regardless of whether he retains or sells his units. I do not know how money from the ASIC MFS/OCV compensation claim against former emplyees will be distributed in the event money is recovered on our behalf. I have asked ASIC to clarify this but did not receive a response.

I am not certain what direction the PIF is heading but am interested in seeing what ASIC determine regarding the original aquisition of PIF management rights by Jenny Hutson. Hopefully there will be some more feedback over the next few weeks. Regards, Seamisty

 

[marcom]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Are there any Brisbane AG members able to attend the court hearing at 10am Monday and report back to us re proceedings? Thanks. Dexter.

hello dexter
The ASIC case opens on Monday with a directions hearing where a lot of the legal technical stuff is sorted out. As with our CA there may be more directions hearings before the actual case starts.

You can track progress with the case here http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/esearc...rt=&LastName=&GivenName=&PartyRole=&DateFrom= Click file details in the botton right hand corner for more detail. I see that Michael King is representing himself and that Craig White has engaged a specialist litigation and D&O insurance lawyer.

It would be good if someone who has time could follow the case by attending.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty - You wrote in #4680 "I am not certain what direction the PIF is heading but am interested in seeing what ASIC determine regarding the original aquisition of PIF management rights by Jenny Hutson. Hopefully there will be some more feedback over the next few weeks..."
Intriguing.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty - You wrote in #4680 "I am not certain what direction the PIF is heading but am interested in seeing what ASIC determine regarding the original aquisition of PIF management rights by Jenny Hutson. Hopefully there will be some more feedback over the next few weeks..."
Intriguing.

I was recently told by someone whe represented 'an interested party' regarding the possible aquisition for the PIF that he was dealing with Jenny Hutson at Wellington Capital who was handling it for Chris Scott/OCV. He was quite surprised to see JH end up with the PIF!!! I think someone from Brisbane who has units in the PIF is hoping to attend the court tomorrow so hopefully will get some indication of where the case is heading. Wasn't the PTQ also questioning the original aquisition? The whole saga is becoming extremely complex, I hope we get some clarity in the not too distant future. Seamisty

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

2008 JH interview in Gold Coast Business News.

-----------------------------------
Crunch time for PIF

by Jason Oxenbridge

It’s do or die for the Premium Income Fund (PIF) as it scrambles for unity prior to an investor meeting to determine its fate later this month. A reprieve by the embattled Octaviar to continue as a going concern following a win against the Public Trustee to wind up the company is good news for PIF investors - but it may be a case of too little, too late.

PIF director Jenny Hutson is confident the board can return capital value from 45 cents to one dollar in the next three to five years as investor funds remain frozen as of January this year following the ‘Black Friday’ share price plummet.

The fund was set up by MFS co-founder Michael King and taken over by Hutson’s Wellington Capital vehicle in May 2008. PIF commenced legal proceedings on June 24 against former funds manager MFS (now Octaviar) to recover $147.5 million in debt that is expected to deliver 65 cents per unit for out of pocket investors.

Hutson is confident of delivering a three cent distribution to shareholders in October and December and subsequent quarterly distributions. Units will also be listed on the NSX to give investors trading options.

“We are hoping to make some recovery there and that will improve the value of the unit, we will be asking them (investors) to vote on a three to five year proposal to come with us, which we aim to turn that 45 cents back into one dollar,” says Hutson.

Hutson, the 2007 Queensland Businesswoman of the Year, set up Wellington Capital in 2005. The company employs 30 staff and has more than $1 billion of funds under management. She says PIF has reduced its bank debt from $184 million to $55 million and is on track to reduce back debt to zero by the end of this month.

“That means we can restart distributions. This was a high performing income fund and we believe it can become a high performing income fund again. Recommencing the distributions is a really important part of that strategy,” she says.

“If the 10,345 investors stay with us, we believe we can get their money back. Some of the disappointments we have seen in corporate Australia in recent times are funds that have struck difficulty.

“What we are trying to here is a little bit different. If we had not of stepped in on May 2, the board before us had decided that receivership was the only option left open to them. We hopped into the ring and worked very hard through the month of May to reduce bank debt from $100 million to $55 million.”

Of the10, 345 disgruntled investors in the Premium Income Fund, 95 per cent are aged 65 and over and have invested an average of $72, 213. But some good news may sway investors this month following Centrelink and the Department of Veteran Affairs decision to write down shares by 55 per cent to 45 cents each, allowing disgruntled shareholders access to government benefits.

“It’s been a challenge, it remains a challenge but we think that we can return the Premium Income Fund to being a great fund and a flagship fund for Wellington Capital and for the investors that are involved. That is our primary aim,” says Hutson.

Hutson says that if PIF was to liquidate in 2009, the best investors could expect on their return would be 14 cents while overall liquidation will cost the company $31 million.
With litigation against Octaviar underway to recover $147.5 million, the former S8 chair is hopeful of increasing PIF unit value to 45 cents, but says her relationship with Octaviar executive director Chris Scott has ‘changed’. Hustson will accept a $48 million pay out offer from Octaviar, following the decision by the Supreme Court to adjourn the winding up action until September 9.

“MFS board is a new board, Chris’ role is to look after shareholders and creditors, my role is one single role, and that is to look after investors in the Premium Income Fund,” she says.

“To say that our relationship at a business level has changed is really to state the obvious, we have quite different interests in terms of the economic interests of different groups. Chris Scott is a fine businessman who I am sure will look after the interests of Octaviar. It is my job and the job of my board to look after the interests of the Premium Income Fund and we have taken a very aggressive position at a particular point in time for a very deliberate reason and that is to make sure that we get the best outcome for (PIF) investors.”

Hutson says she will fight to avoid liquidating the company, vowing to rally alongside investors for the long-term.

“It’s important to be economically rational, and it’s economically irrational to take 14 cents in March as opposed to returning 45 cents plus what we recover from MFS,” she says.

“This fund has been very strongly supported from the Gold Coast, its home as the flagship fund of MFS. We’d like the opportunity to work with investors to reinstate its position in this market.

“People realise that it is the perfectly wrong time to be selling assets. The feeling is that people are going to come with us. I envisage a three to five year time frame to turn capital value from 14 cents back into one dollar. It’s the biggest economic statement I have made in my life.”


Jenny Hutson tells Gold Coast Business News that it’s not over yet for PIF


Is the current Funds model dead?
In respect to the funds model, it has been a redemption fund. We have made an application to list units in the fund on the National Stock Exchange (NSX). We think that will give people who want to take their cash out now the opportunity to do that and we think it’s a really important part of repositioning the fund to give people a choice. The National Stock Exchange will facilitate that trading. Modifications are required to ensure that the fund is properly positioned for the future and that’s what our August proposal is about - a long-term commitment, public listing, and working together united in terms of the go forward.

Is three to five years a realistic time frame to return money to investors?
Three to five years is a realistic time frame. Step one was stabilisation of the fund, step two is repayment of the bank debt, which we’re on track to do and step three is a value re-creation strategy. We have a lot of good assets in the fund, what we need is the time to work out those assets. We had a property that we had valued about three months ago at $11 million, when we undertook an expression of interest campaign recently, the best offer was only $1.5 million. It is the perfectly wrong time to be selling that property in our opinion. We need to recognise that this has been a difficult market, given the impact of the property index on this fund, so we need to be patient to get the recovery that investors want and need.

What about all the doom and gloom in the market?
I have had a fantastic connection with the Gold Coast in business with S8. I think I can take the Premium Income Fund and do something similar. We are in the right part of the country with the right sort of assets and I’m looking forward to the support of the Gold Coast people.
It’s been a tough market, in our view the toughest in the last 10 years for property and finance. We think it has been a great fund, are looking to have investors to make a decision about the fund. It can be a great fund again.



How will Wellington Capital perform in the current market?
At the moment we are have $1 billion of funds under management and a team of 30 professionals based in Brisbane and Sydney. There are fantastic opportunities for sensible growth. We would like to be connected to the 10,345 investors for a very long time and have them come with us, not only this investment but others as they are presented.

What advice would you give to future investors in similar income funds?
It’s important to have a manger that understands all the risk and that you have the right team to deliver and we certainly think that Wellington Capital is the right team for the Premium Income Fund. People made the right decision going into it. Unfortunately there are two things that changed that. The market movement with listed property trust down 43 per cent plus transactions that didn’t deliver.

What impact has this had on you personally?
There are a lot of small investors who have been committed to the fund for a long time and seeing them recover their money would give me immense personal pride.

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

2008 JH interview in Gold Coast Business News.

-----------------------------------
Crunch time for PIF

by Jason Oxenbridge

...................... is Jason Oxenbridge a nom de plume for Lewis Carroll per chance???

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

2008 JH interview in Gold Coast Business News.

-----------------------------------

PIF director Jenny Hutson is confident the board can return capital value from 45 cents to one dollar in the next three to five years as investor funds remain frozen as of January this year following the ‘Black Friday’ share price plummet..

Ah, the search for the elusive mighty dollar, you had it, and you gave it away.

That's what B/T wants to do with the PFMF, give us a V.U.P. (variable unit price), just like a listing, and then we too can go and chase the elusive dollar.

One dollar that is, when we have it, we have to keep it - once we lose it, it's so hard to get back.

It's a great story - just like Cinderella, the manager will work for the $1.00, but if you'd stayed unlisted (if your fund's unit price was $1.00 in your constitution), then you'd be getting back money without having to wait and wait for the unit price to rise.

You could simply take the $1.00s while they are available and make the manager work - but they hate that idea because they want to keep the cash in the fund as a cash cow.

A V.U.P. or a listing are just devastating to investors in highly impaired managed funds without any chance of income. Listing such a fund is, IMO, the worst single step that investors could take.

Believe it or not.

ASIC should have never allowed your fund to list in the circumstances.

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The reason I have interest in your fund is that I've been warned for nearly a year by a member of your forum not to allow the FMF to go the way of the PIF.

The member of your forum is a member of the FMF also, but has a lot more at risk in the FMF.

So, studying where your fund has gone is extremely important to some of us in the FMF - you might say that the FMF has followed in your fund's 'footsteps', except the listing proposal by City Pacific was set aside 'because of market conditions'.

I have constructed a document containing my views about your listing and posted it on my site at : http://www.moneymagic.com/listing_funds.php

While it doesn't cover all the issues, it will give you an outsiders view of what happened.

Also, as to other issues on my site, if you have interest, you may like to read about the V.U.P. (variable unit price) which is just like having a listing without having one. You will see that it is the refusal of offers that keeps you without money - a VUP has the same effect as listing the fund, no one takes the money: investors refuse offers in the hope of a better future (the recovery of the unit price to the magical $1.00)

I think it essential that we help each other with information - every little bit helps.

Thanks.

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

http://wwwmoneymagik.com/listing_funds.php

sorry, I shouldn't type while drinking.

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

http://wwwmoneymagik.com/listing_funds.php

sorry, I shouldn't type while drinking.

Oh! Your drinking too are you? Most of us were teetotalers before Wellington took over!

With the class action will be putting in a claim for causative addiction and stages I and II of Chirrosis !

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Not directed at you Selciper

2008 JH interview in Gold Coast Business News.

-----------------------------------
Crunch time for PIF

by Jason Oxenbridge

... “... we aim to turn that 45 cents back into one dollar,” says Hutson.

Progress report. Sorry for being such a "diehard" negative but Unit value is now 39.2c. Shelling out about a million to Perpetual and about $3M to lawyers in one year didn't help did it. I'm expected a further $20m impairment subsequent to the Sheraton Mirage sale. Looking forward to that half yearly report?

Hutson says that if PIF was to liquidate in 2009, the best investors could expect on their return would be 14 cents while overall liquidation will cost the company $31 million.

Instead we got an average 14c on the NSX and costs of $7M in one year. Hey, at least Perpetual and those lawyers got some $.

“.... It is my job and the job of my board to look after the interests of the Premium Income Fund and we have taken a very aggressive position at a particular point in time for a very deliberate reason and that is to make sure that we get the best outcome for (PIF) investors.”

And that's despite the conflicts of interests between PIF invetsors and WC investors. Lucky us to have such White Knights swoop in to save us.

“People realise that it is the perfectly wrong time to be selling assets. ... " ... "... step three is a value re-creation strategy. We have a lot of good assets in the fund, what we need is the time to work out those assets. We had a property that we had valued about three months ago at $11 million, when we undertook an expression of interest campaign recently, the best offer was only $1.5 million. It is the perfectly wrong time to be selling that property in our opinion. We need to recognise that this has been a difficult market, given the impact of the property index on this fund, so we need to be patient to get the recovery that investors want and need."

So why is it then that less than a later WC put most of the properties on the market? You confused? I'm confused? (I could dream up an answer: the market turned around. Maybe I could get work as a media consultant.)

I have had a fantastic connection with the Gold Coast in business with S8. I think I can take the Premium Income Fund and do something similar. We are in the right part of the country with the right sort of assets ..."

Commercial property on the Gold Coast? I'm sure I read somewhere that such assets have been hardest hit. Well if so then ... they simply must all be wrong.

"...There are fantastic opportunities for sensible growth. ..."

So what's the business plan for said growth?

"...We would like to be connected to the 10,345 investors for a very long time ..."

I'm sure you would.

Am I just in Monday Morning sarcasm overdrive?

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

...In the same letter from Wellington Capital they say..

"...at this time we have not been provided with guidance in relation to whether the cash payment will be in the form of a capital return or distribution. This guidance will be given closer to the time that a payment is given to unitholders...."

NOt directed at you k.smith.

So that's it. WC don't give rats about giving me time to do some tax planning. Thanks heaps WC. I'll stand still while you punch me again.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Blueboy. I appreciate your posting. My response is:

...What concerns me is the apparent lack of real numbers on this forum as the same old recycled names keep appearing. ...

Ouch. I guess you're right I'm a nobody with only about a PIFfling $100K of my life savings in this fund. You're right: I'm a nobody. But did you have to remind me.

... I received a response from one of the WC client service personnel and she took the tack that this forum was made up of a small number of 'diehard's' ...

She wants me to die does she?

... who held misconceived grudges against either WC or JH or both, ...

'Misconceived' is not a very nice way of saying 'stumbling around in the dark'. So then JH - remind me what's the business plan for growing the fund? It's been a year and all I have heard from WC is - sell. But ... what then? Park the money in the fund and pat each other on the back? Do I need to remind WC that the PDS, and hence the business plan therein, has been withdrawn?

... and the forum was just a minor annoyance which most people wouldn't bother reading as it was too negative ... as it simply throws a negative shroud over all the positive things that JH was trying to do for the fund ...

'Positive things' - I'll have to take WC's word for it because WC keeps everything so so secret; you know like ... here it comes on cue ..... like the business plan to grow the fund.

... and had little impact and neither she,WC or JH are reading the forum any longer . ...

Stiff upper lip is a bit 19th century isn't that. WC risk missing out on any constructive criticism that might help. I mean really, I can't see how a share price languishing at 50% of your valuation is hardly something to be resolute about. Or am I just thick? In case WC isn't sure I'm being POSITIVE about the fund here.

... due to the fact that it involves legalese that can only be decided in Court and it is lawyer against lawyer in that regard. ...

Again - I'll have to take WC's word on this.

...unlike this forum which constantly waffles on with the same old negative recycled rhetoric, ...

Attack the attacker.

...they live in the real world of fact not fiction and only see things from a legal standpoint and it would be pointless for them to join in and answer to a handful of individuals who do not represent the bulk of the fund's unit holders....

That's because WC HAVE the facts. I don't. And that's why I'm here: to share info. E.g. How else am I going to do any tax planning? If WC can declare that I won't have to pay income tax on any "distributions" this financial year then I'll shut up about the topic - until next financial year. OH and there's NOTHING "legal standpoint" about wanting to see a business plan. A plan is a basic principle of business. As for the term 'fiction' - bit harsh isn't it - how about 'stumbling around in the dark'.

...handful of individuals who do not represent the bulk of the fund's unit holders....

Thanks for reminding me again. I know, I know - I'm a nobody.



I don't really hold the help line in high regard anyway. But that's just my waffling negative opinion. One of the handful of times I've called was to ask if we were getting a tax statement. Answer was an incorrect: NO. We did get a statement and I'd already sent my tax return. While all the amounts on the PIF statement were zero, I still had to pay my accountant regarding filing an amendment. What can I do eh? What does it matter to WC - I lack 'real numbers'! I just have to 'suck it up princess'.

General
As i clearly said before - I'm in PIF for the money.

Not to make friends. Not for adulation of peers. Adulation from you lot. Not for exchanging 'negative' waffling postings on this forum. Not to engage in spin and rhetoric. Not to satisfy a grudge. Not to get on TV or get into the papers. Not to be WITH WC or AGAINST WC.

It's business. Hey, I'm being honest. I'm in PIF and here on the ASF to make money. What is WC involved in PIF for? To make me money? I hope so, because that's what I expect from WC. That's WC's fiduciary duty to me isn't it? So ...... where's the business plan to grow PIF? What business plan are investors buying into when they buy units on the NSX?

 

[BABIHUTAN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I hv being trying to capture the holdings posted by various Investors since JohnH started the ball rolling with his #4596. Not a huge showing but totals have been climbing slowly & I believe are complete.

I compiled a list in Excel on my PC but hv not found the way to transfer it "as a spreadsheet" attachment to this Forum message format. I hv only been able to copy and paste the text below tt is no longer an
Excel spreadsheet.

Holdings in PIF as posted on ASF

Forum Nom de Plume

Units Held​

John H

100,000​

Pixierich

222,000​

K Smith

55,000​

Cookie1

245,000​

Marcom

615,000​

Seamisty

2,180,000​

Selciper

300,000​

Dexter

880,000​

To Trusting

150,000​

Wally 3218

90,000​

Janiss

1,990,000​

Astevo

40,350​

Atlas 1950

323,000​

BABIHUTAN

490,000​

Charles 36

400,000​

Bessie 223

140,000​

Mary Lynch

493,000​

Alan Lowther

1,172,363​

BootsnAll

826,695​

Mgr2118

380,000​

Duped

100,000​

Glendaw

404,000​

Ian1328

290,000​

Coppo [Brett?]

98,000​

17340

100,000​

Hogan

35,000​

pjay

405,000​

Towbar

75,000​

Zeva

100000​

DepressedDad

100000​

Totals to date

12,799,408​

I will be happy to continue to update as & when Investors add the information on this Forum if in some way it helps our collective cause.
Cheers ---------BABIHUTAN

 

[Valn]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Please add Valn = 140,000.

 

[simgrund]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I will be happy to continue to update as & when Investors add the information on this Forum if in some way it helps our collective cause.
Cheers ---------BABIHUTAN

Dear BABIHUTAN, please access message box, thanks

 

[erniel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I hv being trying to capture the holdings posted by various Investors since JohnH started the ball rolling with his #4596. Not a huge showing but totals have been climbing slowly & I believe are complete.

I compiled a list in Excel on my PC but hv not found the way to transfer it "as a spreadsheet" attachment to this Forum message format. I hv only been able to copy and paste the text below tt is no longer an
Excel spreadsheet.

Holdings in PIF as posted on ASF

Forum Nom de Plume

Units Held​

John H

100,000​

Pixierich

222,000​

K Smith

55,000​

Cookie1

245,000​

Marcom

615,000​

Seamisty

2,180,000​

Selciper

300,000​

Dexter

880,000​

To Trusting

150,000​

Wally 3218

90,000​

Janiss

1,990,000​

Astevo

40,350​

Atlas 1950

323,000​

BABIHUTAN

490,000​

Charles 36

400,000​

Bessie 223

140,000​

Mary Lynch

493,000​

Alan Lowther

1,172,363​

BootsnAll

826,695​

Mgr2118

380,000​

Duped

100,000​

Glendaw

404,000​

Ian1328

290,000​

Coppo [Brett?]

98,000​

17340

100,000​

Hogan

35,000​

pjay

405,000​

Towbar

75,000​

Zeva

100000​

DepressedDad

100000​

Totals to date

12,799,408​

I will be happy to continue to update as & when Investors add the information on this Forum if in some way it helps our collective cause.
Cheers ---------BABIHUTAN

erniel 450000

 

[Janiss]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

BABIHUTAN correction, that should be Janiss 1,499,000

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Business Business Gold Coast

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2009/12/08/166965_gold-coast-business.html






King wants details of ASIC case against him
Emmaline Stigwood | December 8th, 2009

FORMER MFS chief executive Michael King has indicated he might accept Australian Securities and Investments Commission charges against him, only if he knows what its case is.

Mr King appeared in the Supreme Court in Brisbane yesterday to represent himself and oppose basic directions about how ASIC's proposed $147 million civil penalty case would proceed.

In October ASIC filed court papers declaring its intention to recover money from several former MFS directors, as well as a senior manager, after an 18-month investigation.

It is alleged money was wrongly syphoned out of the Premium Income Fund before the company's collapse and financial documents were then faked to cover the transfers.

Along with Mr King, the action has named former directors Craig White, Guy Hutchings and David Anderson, and manager Marilyn Watts, as well as Octaviar Castle, Octaviar Administration and Managed Investments Limited.

In court yesterday lawyers for ASIC said the case was large and likely to end up being a lengthy trial, so it proposed more extended deadlines for orderly filing of material between all the parties.

However Mr King objected, saying if ASIC better articulated its case against him he might choose not to proceed down a long and expensive legal path of defending the matter.

This in turn led ASIC lawyers to recommend Mr King, a solicitor who has not practised in about 10 years, seek proper legal advice about any such moves.

Justice Ann Lyons said she could see no prejudice in ordering parties serve and file documents over the next few months, and if Mr King wanted to short-cut the process by formally lodging no defence to the case he was able to do so.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This one of ours?

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cach...wellington+capital"&cd=24&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au