Boat People

[noco]

The Tamils on the Oceanic Viking have apparently given their 'final decision' that they will not accept going to Indonesia and 'will be staying on the boat'.
This is despite being offered guaranteed resettlement within one year.

So they think they can indefinitely use a customs vessel as a guesthouse and dictate where they will go?

I can't believe they are getting away with this.

Yes Julia I agree, so much for Rudd's agreement with the President of Indonesia.

As I understand the international law and correct me if I am wrong, if a ship goes to the rescue of a boat in distress in Indonesian waters, they are obliged to discharge the rescued people in that country. So the Ocean Viking has done the right thing, the problem is Indonesia and the 78 Sri Lankans have out smarted Kevin Rudd.

Indonesia really does not want them, so it left to the local Government to make the decision. Now the local Government of the Island where the Ocean Viking is anchored say they can't force the Sri Lankans off the boat. Sorry, it looks like it's Australia's responsibility. Poor Ruddy has been done over like a proverbial dinner and he has no idea what to do. If he uses force to remove them, he is inhumane. If he takes them to Christmas Island, he is not the tough guy he makes himself out to be. Once again all spin. He says the UNHCR have already processed them, but the UNHCR have denied they have.

Why did the Indonesians direct the Ocean Viking to a remote Island in the first place. One does not have to be rocket scientist to figure that out.

 

[Riddick]

I find it hard to believe that we don't seem to have the strength, committment or cojones to force a bunch of people off a boat.

Maybe we should get a bunch of bouncers from any city pub/club in Australia, fly them to indonesia and get them to do the whole "sorry pal, not in those shoes, out you go..." seems like a pretty easy fix.

Don't send the them to Christmas Island, the place (I have been there a few times and dived for extended periods and have friends who still live on the island) does not need extra refugees, or people for that matter.

There is comapssion and then there is getting what you want. If we want our ship back simply throw them off. If you want to be the laughing stock of the planet because your whole border protection policy is exposed as the weak after thought is truly is, then by all means pander to the whims of a group of petulant self styled international orphans.

I wonder how long they would stay on board once we cut the food supply? It worked for the Russians at Stalingrad...

It is just me or am I the only one who can see this. Please don't quote my response if you are going to start an arguememt about "humanitarian needs" or "international responsibilities" or "fair go for the less fortunate". There has been enough of that style of arguement on ASF already, and you'd be better off by saving your valuable and irreplacable heartbeats than wasting you time appealing to my compassionate side.

Better still go and read Darwin, Malthus and Co

Ta

 

[justjohn]

How about we send old jelly spine RUDD onto the boat to say ''SORRY'' on our behalf or send GILLARD aboard wearing a short skirt ,that might scare the crap out of these poor half starved wreches.Just a thought

 

[Riddick]

How about we send old jelly spine RUDD onto the boat to say ''SORRY'' on our behalf or send GILLARD aboard wearing a short skirt ,that might scare the crap out of these poor half starved wreches.Just a thought

Julia Gillard in a short skirt. I just threw up into my mouth. Thanks JJ.

 

[pilots]

How about we send old jelly spine RUDD onto the boat to say ''SORRY'' on our behalf or send GILLARD aboard wearing a short skirt ,that might scare the crap out of these poor half starved wreches.Just a thought

That would have them swimming home, I know I would.

 

[Calliope]

We have a secret weapon;

 

[Julia]

Some of the letters to "The Australian":

Letters Blog

1. The Australian
2. Opinion
3. Blogs
4. Letters Blog

Continued delays in resolving Oceanic Viking stand-off risk further damage to our reputation

PERHAPS the only way the 78 asylum-seekers aboard Kevin Rudd’s Love Boat, the Oceanic Viking, will be processed in Indonesia is to follow the lead of the people-smugglers and scuttle the boat in Indonesian waters.

While the Prime Minister has tried to portray himself as the tough but fair Captain Ahab on this issue, the longer the stand-off continues the greater he risks looking like Captain Stubing. Either bite the bullet and force them off, or take them to Christmas Island. Delays only risk further damage to Australia’s reputation.
Marc Hendrickx, Berowra Heights, NSW

The pan-Asia idea was put to us once before 0 comments | Permalink
Saturday, November 07, 09 (12:06 am)

Friday, November 06, 09 (12:08 am)

We hear a lot about spin these days, particularly where the federal government is concerned. It has been suggested that SPIN is the acronym for Special Pronouncements Incorporating Nonsense.
N. Bailey
Murrumbateman, NSW

Perhaps Australians are beginning to see through Ruddspin, David Anderson (Most Talked About, 4/11), but the real breakthrough will come when Australians see through the endless Labor-friendly media spin.
Stephen Turner
Mannum, SA

The Indonesian solution has obviously failed and now the Rudd solution appears to have capsized.
Bill Carpenter
Bowral, NSW

With diplomacy in tatters, how long before Kevin Rudd has to deal with the first boatload of asylum-seekers from Fiji?
Sandra Eckersley
Marrickville, NSW

Please explain! The government continues to pump the economy up while the Reserve Bank is trying to cool it down. Is this a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing?
John Bradford
Mermaid Waters, Qld

IT would seem Indonesia’s “abundance of patience” with Canberra is running out as those now seemingly “in command” of two vessels in its ports refuse to come ashore in Merak and Bintang to be legally processed by the UNHCR and have their claims as legitimate asylum-seekers tested. The patience of Australians funding this confection which poses as policy I suggest is also running out.

While Kevin Rudd picked a winner in the Melbourne Cup, he and his ministers must surely take the trifecta for political double-speak. His government’s claim of taking a more humane approach to asylum-seekers is hollow as it waits to consign men, women and probably children to wire-enclosed detention centres in Indonesia.

Its credentials as a sound manager and protector of Australia’s borders are seriously wanting as people-smugglers and their advisers drive the policy agenda and a taxpayer-funded vessel, which should be on station protecting our fisheries and borders, lies becalmed for days. Finally, our former-diplomat-turned Prime Minister’s policy switch on border protection has landed our next-door neighbour with the mother of all dilemmas and right in its President’s inauguration month. Well done, Kevin.

Sound leadership, rational debate and clear responses from politicians are needed if Australia is to properly determine who settles in this generous country.
Michael Potter
Prahran, Vic

 

[Chris45]

As I understand the international law and correct me if I am wrong, if a ship goes to the rescue of a boat in distress in Indonesian waters, they are obliged to discharge the rescued people in that country. So the Ocean Viking has done the right thing, the problem is Indonesia and the 78 Sri Lankans have out smarted Kevin Rudd.

I just wonder why we continue to pour half a billion of our hard earned dollars into Indonesia each year in the form of AusAID when they don’t seem to be prepared to do anything for us in return, even when they are obliged to under international law. They like our money, but they certainly don’t like us!

http://www.indo.ausaid.gov.au/

Indonesia is the largest single recipient of Australian development assistance. Australia is committed to working in partnership with the Government of Indonesia to continue rebuilding efforts, after the December 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami and to address longer term development challenges.

Australia will continue to focus on strengthening economic and financial management, building democratic institutions, promoting stability and security, and improving the quality of service delivery in Indonesia, particularly in the poorer eastern provinces.

Australia will provide A$3.8 billion in total official development assistance in 2009-10 through its aid budget, which focuses on helping partner countries, including Indonesia, address the impacts of the global recession

The Indonesians are very aggressive and duplicitous people and they outnumber us 10 to 1 so I suppose all of the money we give them is really a form of ‘protection money’. We can't afford to do anything to get them offside so I suppose we’ll just have to smile and continue to pay up while they continue to screw us. I think this old Bill Leak cartoon comes close to summing up our relationship with Indonesia.

 

[Riddick]

I just wonder why we continue to pour half a billion of our hard earned dollars into Indonesia each year in the form of AusAID when they don’t seem to be prepared to do anything for us in return, even when they are obliged to under international law. They like our money, but they certainly don’t like us!

The Indonesians are very aggressive and duplicitous people and they outnumber us 10 to 1 so I suppose all of the money we give them is really a form of ‘protection money’. We can't afford to do anything to get them offside so I suppose we’ll just have to smile and continue to pay up while they continue to screw us. I think this old Bill Leak cartoon comes close to summing up our relationship with Indonesia.

What do you think the indonesians are likely to do to us? Invade us? Import their culture and overwhelm our way of life?
The last time I looked, military technology had moved beyond propeller driven war planes and wooden gunboats, and as for being overwhelmed by indonesian culture, there is only so much space available at beaches for pineapple sellers and purveyors of rip off watches and T shirts.

I mean seriously...

 

[drsmith]

How about we send old jelly spine RUDD onto the boat to say ''SORRY'' on our behalf or send GILLARD aboard wearing a short skirt ,that might scare the crap out of these poor half starved wreches.Just a thought

That would have them swimming home, I know I would.

Or perhaps running across the top of it.

 

[Chris45]

What do you think the indonesians are likely to do to us? Invade us? Import their culture and overwhelm our way of life?

So, if we have nothing to fear from them, why are we so generous to them when we get nothing from them in return???

And remember, both sides have been throwing money at them for years. I must confess I threw some of my money at them after the Boxing Day tsunami, a mistake I now regret and will never repeat!

I think if we fell out with them and things turned nasty, I don't know what they would do but they could certainly make life very difficult for us. There was a report recently that the Indo air force had purchased several Russian Sukhoi strike fighters which now gives them air superiority over us.

So, much better to continue paying our protection money and forcing ourselves to smile while they do their thing.

 

[DVEOUS]

I have a question... two actually.

What on earth do our expensive submarines do to fill in the day?
How much does a torpedo cost?

 

[Riddick]

So, if we have nothing to fear from them, why are we so generous to them when we get nothing from them in return???

And remember, both sides have been throwing money at them for years. I must confess I threw some of my money at them after the Boxing Day tsunami, a mistake I now regret and will never repeat!

I think if we fell out with them and things turned nasty, I don't know what they would do but they could certainly make life very difficult for us. There was a report recently that the Indo air force had purchased several Russian Sukhoi strike fighters which now gives them air superiority over us.

So, much better to continue paying our protection money and forcing ourselves to smile while they do their thing.

We keep throwing money at them essentialy because Australians are a caring and compassionate lot.

In terms of military superiority: The US and Australia still have an active defence cooperation treaty, essentially the lovechild of ANZUS, minus NZ of course (after the nuclear submarine incident some years ago)

Like it or loathe it, the US is still the superpower of the world. Under no circumstance would they allow anyone to launch any sort of attack on the Australian mainland. The have permanent bases here, and a pacific fleet. Indonesia is absolutely no military threat to them and by proxy to Australia.

If only on the basis of natural resources (ie securing our resources fot heir use) they would move swiftly in our defence. Not to mention the cultural conflict. Anyone who has been to the US will attest to their paranoia and the hardline christian mentality that dominates US domestic and foreign policies.

As a muslim nation, with little the US needs, who is not a trading partner and who is not part of any US alliances or treaties, the indonesians are not on the radar as threats or as friends.

So really it comes down to access to regional markets. Our foreign aid pretty much becomes acess money. 300 million people is a big market and Australian businesses are active and make a lot of money in the region.

So close to our national doorstep it makes sense to have 'friendly' neighbours.

They are certainly no direct threat to us, but I agree, they can make our life difficult, and to be honest, a prickly relationship with us wouldn't be great for indonesia either. Certainly wouldn't hurt for us to give them a bit of the treatment they give us.

 

[Wysiwyg]

So really it comes down to access to regional markets. Our foreign aid pretty much becomes acess money. 300 million people is a big market and Australian businesses are active and make a lot of money in the region.

So close to our national doorstep it makes sense to have 'friendly' neighbours.

They are certainly no direct threat to us, but I agree, they can make our life difficult, and to be honest, a prickly relationship with us wouldn't be great for indonesia either. Certainly wouldn't hurt for us to give them a bit of the treatment they give us.

Top quality post Riddick.

 

[Chris45]

Yes, good points Riddick and I hope you’re right.

I wasn’t really thinking along the lines of the Indonesians launching an invasion, but considering how generous we are to them, I'm finding their reluctance to get serious about stopping these boat people very irritating.

Maybe we should adopt more of a quid pro quo approach and start reducing or postponing the aid until they get the message that they need to do things for us in return. So instead of offering them more money to build a detention center, we should be politely suggesting that if they want our money to continue to flow their way, they should use some of the money we are already giving them to build it.

I think we are far too 'caring and compassionate' for our own good but neither side seems to want to take a tougher line with the Indos so naturally they will continue to take the easy option of doing as little for us as possible. They certainly take a tough line with us.

 

[bigdog]

Tactics when you want to come to Australia!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...-help-on-mobiles/story-e6frf7l6-1225795364009

Asylum seekers call for help on mobiles
By Carmel Melouney From:
The Sunday Telegraph November 08, 2009 12:01AM

ASYLUM seekers on boats have begun to use mobile phones to call the Australian Maritime Safety Authority directly in a bid to be rescued.

People aboard several boats have made multiple calls to AMSA and other government agencies, including Defence, stating they need help.

A spokesman for Home Affairs Minister Brendan O'Connor confirmed asylum seekers on a boat in Indonesian waters had been calling AMSA via mobile phones.

"Obviously AMSA would get a message, usually via radio, but people use whatever method they can," the spokesman said.

"I believe they contacted a number of authorities, including Defence and other government agencies.

"I am aware AMSA has been in direct contact with people on board a vessel and those people are now on the Oceanic Viking. People contacted authorities here and were put through to AMSA."

He said AMSA had also received a distress call from another vessel that subsequently sank, the 27 survivors from which were now on Christmas Island.

"You cannot be selective as to who you can respond too, AMSA is obliged to respond," he said.

A Customs Border Protection spokesman confirmed that on October 16 at 11.45pm, Australian authorities received calls from people on a boat saying they were in trouble. These calls came from the asylum seekers who are now aboard the Oceanic Viking.

The spokesman did not know how many calls were made, but confirmed there had been multiple calls.

 

[Riddick]

Top quality post Riddick.

Yes, good points Riddick and I hope you’re right.

I wasn’t really thinking along the lines of the Indonesians launching an invasion, but considering how generous we are to them, I'm finding their reluctance to get serious about stopping these boat people very irritating.

Maybe we should adopt more of a quid pro quo approach and start reducing or postponing the aid until they get the message that they need to do things for us in return. So instead of offering them more money to build a detention center, we should be politely suggesting that if they want our money to continue to flow their way, they should use some of the money we are already giving them to build it.

I think we are far too 'caring and compassionate' for our own good but neither side seems to want to take a tougher line with the Indos so naturally they will continue to take the easy option of doing as little for us as possible. They certainly take a tough line with us.

Thanks you guys, I do have to admit though, and agree with you, that it is frustrating always seemingly on the recieving end. Maybe Australians should stop going to Bali for a couple of years? I realise this is petty, but it would send a message...

Great to see a lot of people with strong opinions on the matter. Maybe something will get done!

 

[Nyden]

Can't believe this nonsense has yet to be resolved. Throw them off of the boat, Indonesia doesn't want them? Then throw them into the water!

 

[DVEOUS]

I realise this is petty, but it would send a message...

Not petty at all.
The whole sub-continent knows Australia is an easy and soft target.
It wouldn't surprise me, if there was some printed "How to" manual out there, on getting into, and taking advantage of the Australian system.

As an Aussie taxpayer, I resent being taken advantage of.
The Indonesians treat us with contempt, despite the $billions of dollars of annual "aid" they receive from us.

Whilst there are always exceptions, most of these refos will end up in government housing, and on some sort of welfare or pension for the rest of their life.

How many refos have landed here since the Rudd government took office?
I heard 280,000.
Multiply that out to house, feed, and look after this lot, on top of all the bureaucracy, and it would be 100's of $millions of dollars annually.
I would rather money be spent on our ailing health system, roads and schools.

We should be sending bloody invoices back to the governments concerned, (Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Burma, etc) for our costs involved in dealing with THEIR problems.

 

[bunyip]

Barnaby Joyce has the right idea....take 'em back to Sri Lanka
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...-viking-to-sri-lanka-joyce-20091108-i365.html

There are many people in the world who want to come to Australia, speak perfect English, have skills that would allow them to slot straight into the Australian workforce, and whose religion, culture and values are compatible with our own.
Our government makes it quite difficult for these people to emigrate to Australia.
I personally know a couple of such people in Ireland and England, and one from Germany, who have been thwarted in their efforts to come down under.

But if you're a refugee who speaks no English, has little or no money or job skills or education, and your culture and values and religion clash with mainstream Australia, our government lays out the welcome mat for you.
It makes no sense at all.

This idiot Rudd dismantled the tough measures introduced by the Howard government to curb illegal immigration by boat people.
Now the imbecile is scratching his head and wondering why the boat people problem is escalating out of control.