Boat People

[Julia]

Are you for supporting the millions of women who are forced to have abortions in China every year?

No, but I'd support some funding for contraception advice.

Do you realise how many 'genuine' refugees there are in this world?

There are millions and millions of people who would be properly called 'refugees'.

It's clear we can't bring everyone here - so, how do we 'cull'?

As you quite well would know, the government allocates a quota of available refugee places each year. This is what I was supporting. Presumably these numbers are decided on the basis of how capable our infrastructure is of supporting various immigration levels.

With regard to your other points, they're concerns I've already expressed if you'd quoted my past remarks in their entirety rather than picking out one sentence away from its context.

 

[mellifuous]

No, but I'd support some funding for contraception advice.

They want to have children - they intentionally get pregnant but are forced to abort - are you suggesting you would 'educate' them by convincing them to adopt a form of sterilization?

 

[mellifuous]

I do feel for them as where are they to go?

Would back home be okay?

 

[bigdog]

What will Kevin do now!!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...ing-in-indonesia/story-e6frf7k6-1225793185850

Asylum seekers admit living in Indonesia
AAP November 01, 2009 4:49AM

IT'S been revealed that most of the Sri Lankan asylum seekers in a standoff with Australian authorities off Indonesia's Bintan Island have admitted living in Indonesia for years, providing the Rudd Government with leverage to convince Indonesia to take them back.

Indonesia's senior official in charge of the matter, Sujatmiko, said he was unaware of the history of the asylum seekers but asked that all information be passed to him as a matter of urgency, Fairfax newspapers reported.

In written messages thrown off the Oceanic Viking, the Australian customs ship that has been home to the 78 ethnic Tamils for the past two weeks, the asylum seekers said they had been living in Indonesia for as long as five years and had been accepted by the United Nations office in Jakarta as genuine refugees.

They said they engaged a people smuggler because of their frustrations that no country would accept them, leaving them to sit in limbo in rented accommodation in Indonesia, unable to work or study.

The message insisted the Sri Lankans had arrived in Indonesia "normally".

Part of the Indonesian justification for not taking the Sri Lankans is that they are refusing to be registered by their immigration officials. But it appears that they already have been.

The United Nations High Commission for Refugees doesn't process asylum seekers unless they have been registered first, Fairfax says.

Yesterday's development came as the Federal Government announced a doubling of the capacity of the Christmas Island immigration detention centre as it braces for more boat arrivals.

 

[Julia]

They want to have children - they intentionally get pregnant but are forced to abort - are you suggesting you would 'educate' them by convincing them to adopt a form of sterilization?

If they know they will have to abort a child, why do they get pregnant?
The population control policy of China is well known worldwide, so I can hardly believe it's not equally well known to China's own citizens.

This topic is, anyway, less than relevant to the thread, and I don't have any further comment about the procreation lives of the Chinese.

 

[Tink]

Tink, you've separately said that you like the idea of big populations.
Do you have faith that state and federal governments will adequately supply the infrastructure to support a population which is more than double what we have now? You know, those things that are causing us worry at present like not enough water, gridlocked traffic in our cities, dysfunctional public transport, inadequate and increasingly dysfunctional health system, etc?

Obviously allowing the current 78 people to come into Australia isn't going to make any difference to anything in a purely practical sense. But what is concerning some people is the question of establishing this as a precedent, whereupon asylum seekers the world over will see Australia as an easy access new home.

So are you OK with that? Do you want to see unlimited access for anyone at all into Australia? Where will all these people be accommodated (a) while they are being checked, and then (b) while they are learning English, trying to find work etc? Are you happy for us to pay considerably more tax to fund all this, plus the building of the additional infrastructure?

Don't you think just allowing anyone who dictates that they will only disembark a ship if it's into Australia, nowhere else, even just for processing, is a bit unfair to those people who have been waiting for years in a refugee camp somewhere, having applied to come to Australia in the conventional way?

I'm all for assisting genuine refugees to come to Australia and giving them every possible assistance. But I'm uncomfortable when people - in any area of life - try to circumvent a system that others in good faith have followed.

Hi Julia

Seems this thread has finished now, but regarding your infrastructure question, yes I think they will. They have to, as Australia's population is growing whether we want it to or not.

As for the boat people, I can understand what you are saying and I do agree, that they should go through the right avenues and be processed, but, if they are real refugees that really did jump on a boat and left out of danger, I dont think the comments were appropriate.

Maybe they couldnt get on a plane and out. I suppose its looking at the whole picture, not just rambling off, with no thought in how they got there in the first place.

Anyways looks like they are Indonesians

 

[Julia]

Hi Julia

Seems this thread has finished now, but regarding your infrastructure question, yes I think they will. They have to, as Australia's population is growing whether we want it to or not.

The thread is finished???
You seem to have a blind faith in governments to assume they will keep pace with the necessary infrastructure. It's hard to see why you'd feel this way, given their track record.

As for the boat people, I can understand what you are saying and I do agree, that they should go through the right avenues and be processed, but, if they are real refugees that really did jump on a boat and left out of danger, I dont think the comments were appropriate.

There seem to be few who have left urgently and because of immediate danger. These ones now claim they have been living in Indonesia for five years and just became a bit tired of waiting.

Maybe they couldnt get on a plane and out. I suppose its looking at the whole picture, not just rambling off, with no thought in how they got there in the first place.

Huh? What do you mean?

Anyways looks like they are Indonesians

Really? That's news. Could you provide a link to that?

 

[Chris45]

The pressure is mounting! The goodlife seekers are now threatening to commit suicide unless their demands are met and, no doubt, the limp-wristed lefties will be beside themselves with anguish.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/02/2730092.htm?section=australia

Where is their compassion for the thousands of law abiding refugees who are following the correct procedure and patiently waiting for their cases to be assessed by the UNHCR? No, it’s definitely the ‘squeaky hinges’ that get all of the left’s attention these days.

The AWU National Secretary, Paul Howes, and ACTU president, Sharan Burrow, are leading the bleeding heart brigade’s efforts to bring these people in. Years ago the unions ran xenophobic campaigns against foreign workers taking “Aussie jobs” but they now see these people as potential union members to boost their dwindling numbers, and also potential allies in the continuing fight against the conservatives. What a bunch of hypocrites they are!!!

 

[mellifuous]

The pressure is mounting! The goodlife seekers are now threatening to commit suicide unless their demands are met and, no doubt, the limp-wristed lefties will be beside themselves with anguish.

I was going to post "wow, will they put it on tv? or send in an F-111 to be kind to them?",
but I decided not to.

In a strange twisted way, the money spent on these misfits could be money taken from a hospital some where in Australia - life for life.. and so it goes on.

let's hope other consumers don't behave this way when they don't get what they pay for.

 

[Chris45]

I was going to post "wow, will they put it on tv? or send in an F-111 to be kind to them?", but I decided not to.

Yes, I'm glad you didn't post that. Good one!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/02/2730441.htm

There are grave fears for 21 people missing after their boat sank hundreds of nautical miles off the Cocos Islands. ... AMSA received a distress signal yesterday morning with reports the boat had a hole in the bottom and was taking on water.

Hmmm. I wonder if there were any submarines (not ours of course) in the area at the time?

 

[Wysiwyg]

Hmmm. I wonder if there were any submarines (not ours of course) in the area at the time?

I take it your mother and father weren't on board.

 

[pilots]

The boat people are getting smart now, just sail close to us, send out a distress call and as soon as you see a boat coming sink your tub. Look out Australia, THEY ARE COMING,: and this government is not going to stop them.

 

[mellifuous]

Yes, I'm glad you didn't post that. Good one!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/02/2730441.htm

Yes, I'm glad I didn't too.

Well, just look at the $$$$$$$$$ burning away up there ..

We should think about the cost of this business the next time we see someone die in hospital due to lack of resources, or of a person smitten with a disease the government is not prepared to spend money on, or a grieving war widow and her family left in isolation.

Charity is supposed to begin at home - but it doesn't.

 

[pilots]

We have just sent the new jet the flying doctors have just been given, up north to look for survivors from a sinking tub, good to know we have all that money to spare.

 

[mellifuous]

We have just sent the new jet the flying doctors have just been given, up north to look for survivors from a sinking tub, good to know we have all that money to spare.

well, the way to solve it is ... 'hands up those who want to support them'...

and when the hands come up ... $2,000 each thanks...

it just might make it hard for me to make donations to the F.D. in the future.

let the government pay for it.

 

[Calliope]

Paul Sheehan in the SMH;

The 78 ethnic Tamils who have illegally occupied the Australian customs vessel Oceanic Viking are demanding rights that do not exist under international law. Most have been in Indonesia for some time. They want to settle in Australia, or another wealthy country, but that decision is not theirs to make.

The Oceanic Viking needs to be reclaimed, secured, prepared for sea, then sail for Sri Lanka with the 78 recalcitrants on board. They have rejected Indonesia. Anything less is a capitulation to moral blackmail, where children have been used as props and pawns. The impasse is not a test of rights but a test of wills. The prolonging of the Oceanic Viking saga has shown Rudd to be a man who seeks to be all things to all people

.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/migration-the-true-story-20091101-hrjq.html

 

[Julia]

We should think about the cost of this business the next time we see someone die in hospital due to lack of resources, or of a person smitten with a disease the government is not prepared to spend money on, or a grieving war widow and her family left in isolation.

Charity is supposed to begin at home - but it doesn't.

I'm not sure that this thread is the right place for this comment, but I'm reminded from the above of an item in ABC Radio's "PM" programme this evening where the government has removed the $20 subsidy from Medicare for people who need cortisone injections to manage their arthritis pain.
OK to toss out $900 cheques to be spent on anything at all for most of the population, but when it comes to clawing back the Budget position, then essential health services get the chop.

Paul Sheehan in the SMH;

Paul Sheehan's comments are succinct and entirely appropriate.
The government is looking inept and indecisive and needs to take a stand.

 

[Happy]

I think we should look after our own first, this is our Government's utmost first responsibility UN agreement or not!

And list of things that are not right in Australia is quite long.

 

[bigdog]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/its-rudds-fatal-shore/story-e6frfhqf-1225794867198

This Andrew Bolt article Nov 6 (very long) includes the following statements:

The Oceanic Viking Tamils were rescued by Australia last month after issuing a fake SOS from their ship, after reportedly drilling holes in the hull.

Likewise, 42 Afghans were rescued in April at Ashmore Reef and even granted permanent residency here after blowing up their own boat, killing five.

How compassionate we were both times. And foolishly so, in the case of the Afghans, who can now stay despite refusing to say which of them set off the deadly explosion.

But now check the price of this compassion.

The Government has just ordered a coroner's inquiry into the deaths on Sunday of the 12 Sri Lankans to find why their boat suddenly capsized off the Cocos Islands, just as they and 27 others were about to be rescued in Australian search-and-rescue territory.

Why the inquiry? Because some of those involved in the rescue claim the Sri Lankans may have deliberately sunk their own boat. Plus, of course, an inquiry lets Rudd say "no comment" in the meantime.

 

[Julia]

The Tamils on the Oceanic Viking have apparently given their 'final decision' that they will not accept going to Indonesia and 'will be staying on the boat'.
This is despite being offered guaranteed resettlement within one year.

So they think they can indefinitely use a customs vessel as a guesthouse and dictate where they will go?

I can't believe they are getting away with this.