Aussie Mother faces jail in Thailand for bar prank

[cuttlefish]

A horrible, scary situation that is likely undeserved, but putting that aside for the moment, what are others thoughts on how to deal with these sorts of situations?

My view is that after the Schapelle Corby debacle the last thing I would be doing is going to the media. It would seem like a spurious charge and one that I'd imagine in a place like Thailand is typically resolved through a friendly donation to the appropriate people and a quiet and quick release secured. My first thoughts would be on how best to achieve this in a way that does ensure the promise of freedom is delivered upon, and without getting ripped off.

What are peoples thoughts on all of this? Is the media behaving irresponsibly by bringing publicity to this sort of situation? Should there be some education available to travellers on how to navigate the 'informal' aspects of foreign legal systems?

Has anyone had any direct experience with similar situations and managed to navigate their way out of it?

I think about the Corby case and at around the same time an Australian sailor was charged in indonesia with posession of weapons or bringing weapons into the country because he had various guns on his boat (for defense against pirates). Very little media attention or profile apart from the initial news articles about his arrest and the man arrested certainly didn't do anything to stir up media attention, and from memory he was released three months later with little media fanfare surrounding his release.

 

[Joe Blow]

A link for reference: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25505174-401,00.html

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Thanks Joe.

On the face of it it sounds a bit rough even if she did nick it.

gg

 

[awg]

A horrible, scary situation that is likely undeserved, but putting that aside for the moment, what are others thoughts on how to deal with these sorts of situations?


What are peoples thoughts on all of this? Is the media behaving irresponsibly by bringing publicity to this sort of situation? Should there be some education available to travellers on how to navigate the 'informal' aspects of foreign legal systems?

Has anyone had any direct experience with similar situations and managed to navigate their way out of it?

I think about the Corby case and at around the same time an Australian sailor was charged in indonesia with posession of weapons or bringing weapons into the country because he had various guns on his boat (for defense against pirates). Very little media attention or profile apart from the initial news articles about his arrest and the man arrested certainly didn't do anything to stir up media attention, and from memory he was released three months later with little media fanfare surrounding his release.

A lady from my suburb was accused of shop-lifting in a Thai market, when (according to what I heard) a necklace got snagged on her backpack. The stallholders got into an argument with her, and instead of just paying them, she said indignately "go on, call the police then".

Really stupid move.

I am not sure exactly what happened next, but she spent 2 weeks in a Thai womans prison, under appalling conditions.

Her family members had to fly over, and I believe, pay substantial bribes to get her out.

Shakedowns are very common in Asia.

Some of my friends that are surfers have been shaken down by Indo police or Immigration.

My advice is to have a good size wad of cash, handy, with other cash hidden.

If you get shaken down, negotiate.

They will usually out negotiate you

So offer to pay an "on the spot fine"

and hand over your wad of cash.

about 1 month salary will solve most problems

the more people you involve, the more you will have to pay.

 

[The_Bman]

Sure, but this corruption and method to deal with it is only fueling the problem.

I find boycotting these countries best. I’ve found a lot of great places where the locals actually invite you in rather than haggle you into utter frustration.

Except in Czech Republic where my Motorbike was stolen

 

[awg]

Corruption is endemic in these countries unfortunately

Dont break the law when you are there!!!!

I once witnessed a mass shakedown at an Indo airport.

All these people were crying and weeping cause the Immigration were preventing them boarding due to apparent "visa irregularites"

I walked up to them and told them to ask to see the head guy, in a private room and offer $20...problem solved.

My sister was furious, cause she paid them $100, on the way in, as they said you needed a passport that did not expire within 6 months.

On the way back out, they thanked her like a queen!

It took me a while, but I soon learnt that if you wanted any sort of priority service, you had to pay...it is totally expected.

they know how much the airfare etc is, and it is a matter of honour to extract some cash from you.

dont EVER make the mistake of causing an Asian official to lose face

 

[cuttlefish]

A lady from my suburb was accused of shop-lifting in a Thai market, when (according to what I heard) a necklace got snagged on her backpack. The stallholders got into an argument with her, and instead of just paying them, she said indignately "go on, call the police then".

Really stupid move.

I am not sure exactly what happened next, but she spent 2 weeks in a Thai womans prison, under appalling conditions.

Her family members had to fly over, and I believe, pay substantial bribes to get her out.

Shakedowns are very common in Asia.

Some of my friends that are surfers have been shaken down by Indo police or Immigration.

My advice is to have a good size wad of cash, handy, with other cash hidden.

If you get shaken down, negotiate.

They will usually out negotiate you

So offer to pay an "on the spot fine"

and hand over your wad of cash.

about 1 month salary will solve most problems

the more people you involve, the more you will have to pay.

Cheers awg - so it seems a prompt offer of a what is by Thai standards a significant amount of money, but relatively modest by Australian standards (i.e. a couple of hundred dollars at best) could in all likelihood have quickly resolved the situation. To avoid spending even half an hour in a Thai prison cell I'd be giving this a shot as my first option.

Now - given that your average journalist should in theory have at least half a clue of how things work in these countries and the effect publicity could have on the situation - is it irresponsible for them to take the story and start sensationalising it? - effectively cutting off any route for a simple, low key, win/win negotiation out of the situation and turning it into yet another us vs them political drama.

The media publicity could effectively turn a relatively minor incident into a long period in jail for this lady, which would be devastating for her and her family - but great for the media as they fed off the 'heartbreaking story'.

Also - what role could/should the Australian government play in all of this? Obviously embassy officials can't get involved in bribery at any official level - but could they at least have a mechanism that ensures they are the first to speak to someone that finds themselves in a tight situation and at least strongly hint that quiet, diplomatic negotiation is the most effective course of action (and even possibly somehow subtly educate them on the informal approaches that might work?).

 

[Prospector]

I remember when we were in Bali, just before we left we were accused of stealing a bed decoration from one of the rooms. It was an ugly black and white checked thingy that covered the base of a single bed. Lordy knows what they thought we would do with it, use it as a tea towel or perhaps a duster! Anyway, they would not let us leave, we had a plane to catch but they were adamant we had stolen it. Finally they contacted the person who looks after the rooms - poor bugger, it was midnight by now; and he said he had removed it from the room for safe keeping!

So by now we were running late for the plane so the Hotel Manager ended up taking us. I didnt realise he was the head honcho, I thought he was one of their drivers! And as he got us there in good time so I gave him a dollar tip!

It is very scary being accused of things whilst overseas. The immediate thing to do is get a very good lawyer. And contact the Embassy.

 

[Prospector]

Corruption is endemic in these countries unfortunately

Dont break the law when you are there!!!!

I walked up to them and told them to ask to see the head guy, in a private room and offer $20...problem solved.

Awg, you say not to break the law, and then you bribe the officials?

 

[awg]

Awg, you say not to break the law, and then you bribe the officials?

I take your point Prospector, but not quite correct.

I dont use that word

baksheesh, is the term they use, in India anyway.


if negotiations are conducted carefully, offering to pay an "on the spot fine"
"compensation", or "settlement fee" ,maybe the best option, in fact, you may not even be breaking their law.

I was mainly talking about shakedowns as well.

My travels thru Asia were much less frustrating, when I worked out who to pay and when, for good service.

I personally never had to pay money to get out of real trouble.

I wont bore you with when I did pay, but, like anything else, work out the value...ie missing a plane is no fun.

but i did have a similar experience to you in Bangkok, they said a towel or something was missing.

I never took it.

I said " how much", and paid,

if I hadnt, I probably would have missed my flight.

If you ever end up in a Thai jail, you will have to pay to survive

 

[Surfer35]

They did indeed arrest the wrong person. They should be arresting Jetstar and any other budget air carriers loitering around on charges of aiding and abetting moronic white trash Australians to travel.

 

[Prospector]

They did indeed arrest the wrong person. They should be arresting Jetstar and any other budget air carriers loitering around on charges of aiding and abetting moronic white trash Australians to travel.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

They did indeed arrest the wrong person. They should be arresting Jetstar and any other budget air carriers loitering around on charges of aiding and abetting moronic white trash Australians to travel.

A fair point Surfer. I've only ever transited through Bangkok and Jakarta, but I always travel business or first, and have been treated with unfailing courtesy.

From speaking to Asian friends of mine, tourists in Thailand and Indonesia staying in the cheaper places and travelling coach class are considered trash, and treated so.


gg

 

[Surfer35]

Thanks Garpul, regardless of the class of travel, if only more of us travelled with your humility they would encounter the same level of service and reception you do. I've lived in many Asian countries and the advent of cheap air travel has made me embarrassed when people ask where I am from.

 

[Sean K]

Sounds sus to me.

Like there's more to the story perhaps.

Lesson 2b. Don't steal crap.

 

[Surfer35]

Kennas, exactly. How hard can it be?

How anyone can upset the Thais of Bangla Road (as they are used to accommodating the worst the West has to offer) is beyone me.

Definitely more to it.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

It's probably a good idea to be respectful and just blend in while in Asia.

 

[Prospector]

So anyone who travels economy is trash? Boy, I thought I was a snob but you guys have taken this to a new level. And travelling economy is not synonymous with not knowing how to behave by the way.

On the other hand, I am embarassed by fellow Australians in Bali, and last year, in Vietnam by older (retired I guess), 60 year old men who think that everyone else is spellbound by what they have to say. What is it about old men who yell across crowded airport holding rooms and other public areas?

 

[awg]

Sounds sus to me.

Like there's more to the story perhaps.

Lesson 2b. Don't steal crap.

From reading the link, sounds like a classic case of not paying up.

probably drunkeness, and disrespect of local people and officials as well.

I was much younger during my Asian travels, and loved it, that is why I travelled there, but I did do it on the cheap

Agree higher end travellers would not encounter these problems.

If you try to screw the locals for a few bucs, they get cranky.

I was sometimes ashamed to see blatant racism and abuse from travellers.

The Brits were the worst I personally saw.

read something long time ago saying the Thais are the "most cruel people on earth"

also said their nation has never been conquered.

Will go back as a family, as I have 3 blond haired sons, and such things are considered very good omens

 

[cuttlefish]

A fair point Surfer. I've only ever transited through Bangkok and Jakarta, but I always travel business or first, and have been treated with unfailing courtesy.

From speaking to Asian friends of mine, tourists in Thailand and Indonesia staying in the cheaper places and travelling coach class are considered trash, and treated so.


gg

Yeah you really get a close and unique experience of a countries culture and customs from the business class suite at the airport hotel.