Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
More importantly, if the 14c/unit valuation is a realistic value of the assets if they were to be sold in the market in the short term, shouldn't the auditors have made sure this was the asset value used in the balance sheet as at 30/6/08 ? Have they been negligent ? This is the asset value upon which Wellingtons fee should be calculated isn't it ??
Personally, I liked the old Constitution where management fees were the remainder of net profit after all expenses are paid, all requested redemptions are paid and all distributions are paid. As it stands now, if the Fund cannot generate enough profit to cover all expenses & pay the 3c distribution, after taking into account the losses that will have been incurred in selling off our assets to pay back the bank debt (in other words no profits), Wellington will be selling off our assets to pay themselves their fee - which will be based on over-valued assets.
Hope all the true believers will be happy with that.
More importantly, if the 14c/unit valuation is a realistic value of the assets if they were to be sold in the market in the short term, shouldn't the auditors have made sure this was the asset value used in the balance sheet as at 30/6/08 ? Have they been negligent ? This is the asset value upon which Wellingtons fee should be calculated isn't it ??
Personally, I liked the old Constitution where management fees were the remainder of net profit after all expenses are paid, all requested redemptions are paid and all distributions are paid. As it stands now, if the Fund cannot generate enough profit to cover all expenses & pay the 3c distribution, after taking into account the losses that will have been incurred in selling off our assets to pay back the bank debt (in other words no profits), Wellington will be selling off our assets to pay themselves their fee - which will be based on over-valued assets.
Hope all the true believers will be happy with that.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
It's called the 'ex-dividend date' isn't it? For shares, that is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_dividend
It's called the 'ex-dividend date' isn't it? For shares, that is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_dividend
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hang on, I thought the whole point of listing the Fund was as an exit for the many people in desperate circumstances who need to access their money immediately to get by. They can't wait 5 years or more. What are they suppose to do now ? Accept 5c in the dollar and be grateful ? Hope all those that take advantage of these desperate people enjoy their profits !!
Hang on, I thought the whole point of listing the Fund was as an exit for the many people in desperate circumstances who need to access their money immediately to get by. They can't wait 5 years or more. What are they suppose to do now ? Accept 5c in the dollar and be grateful ? Hope all those that take advantage of these desperate people enjoy their profits !!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hang on, I thought the whole point of listing the Fund was as an exit for the many people in desperate circumstances who need to access their money immediately to get by. They can't wait 5 years or more. What are they suppose to do now ? Accept 5c in the dollar and be grateful ? Hope all those that take advantage of these desperate people enjoy their profits !!
Today 08:15 PM
No one has accepted the ludicrous bids on the nsx today which can only be GOOD. There are sharks out there who want their cake with cream on. Let them wait and pay a fair price. Who in a sane mind would sell now at 5c when a distribution of 3c is imminent. A porcupine perhaps.
Hang on, I thought the whole point of listing the Fund was as an exit for the many people in desperate circumstances who need to access their money immediately to get by. They can't wait 5 years or more. What are they suppose to do now ? Accept 5c in the dollar and be grateful ? Hope all those that take advantage of these desperate people enjoy their profits !!
Today 08:15 PM
No one has accepted the ludicrous bids on the nsx today which can only be GOOD. There are sharks out there who want their cake with cream on. Let them wait and pay a fair price. Who in a sane mind would sell now at 5c when a distribution of 3c is imminent. A porcupine perhaps.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Quite right Ian, no one is going to sell before they get the promised 3c distribution, who knows when & if more distributions will be paid.
How long do you think desperate people will need to wait though, before this "fair price" is going to be offered ??
Quite right Ian, no one is going to sell before they get the promised 3c distribution, who knows when & if more distributions will be paid.
How long do you think desperate people will need to wait though, before this "fair price" is going to be offered ??
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Ian
Jenny Hutson has stated repeatedly that NSX listing was to provide liquidity
which is absolute rubbish
The whole point of the NSX listing is a vehicle for a capital raising down the track
Their is obviously no liquidity on this Index and their never will be at anything resembling a fair price Most people do know even know this index exists
You had better get used to that fact mate
Investors may not be selling now but give it time and i a damn well certain you will see the price at 15cents or lower by those poor desperate souls who are ill or sick and forced to sell at any price
Ian
Jenny Hutson has stated repeatedly that NSX listing was to provide liquidity
which is absolute rubbish
The whole point of the NSX listing is a vehicle for a capital raising down the track
Their is obviously no liquidity on this Index and their never will be at anything resembling a fair price Most people do know even know this index exists
You had better get used to that fact mate
Investors may not be selling now but give it time and i a damn well certain you will see the price at 15cents or lower by those poor desperate souls who are ill or sick and forced to sell at any price
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
The reason people joined PIF was to have regular income. Whether one has investments in houses, shares or other means we all need regular income. MFS used to provide this and if Wellington do so from now on then nothing has changed. Unless of course you want to sell, but who wants to sell their house or shares in this environment, admittedly some extreme circumstances change our perspective, yet it appears those people in this fund are not here. Our distributions are coming back, now lets watch and see what happens over the next 6-12months for an indication of the future, after all we've waited 9 months and got nothing and have survived so lets see what the lady in red can deliver.
The reason people joined PIF was to have regular income. Whether one has investments in houses, shares or other means we all need regular income. MFS used to provide this and if Wellington do so from now on then nothing has changed. Unless of course you want to sell, but who wants to sell their house or shares in this environment, admittedly some extreme circumstances change our perspective, yet it appears those people in this fund are not here. Our distributions are coming back, now lets watch and see what happens over the next 6-12months for an indication of the future, after all we've waited 9 months and got nothing and have survived so lets see what the lady in red can deliver.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
That 5 cent bid should drop to 2 cents on x div day Its all over folks there is only one winner & we all know who that is Cant say i did not warn you all ////////
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thats a good point so what are we all whinging about At 3 cents a year Div we will all have our buck back in 33 years Be only worth about 10 cents then after inflation I am going to bed wake me up in 33 years time please /
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Does anyone else find JH’s statement to the GCBulletin arrogant…
I’ve posted before that the WC board considered the fund to be liquid but having liquidity problems. I think without the listing the fund would have to be classed as non-liquid which isn’t in the best interest of the RE. However, I think the best interest of unit holders would have been not to list and to class the fund as non-liquid like the City Pacific RE decided to do. This still allows distributions (if possible) and enables the RE to also return capital to all unit holders equally when available. I also read that the City Pacific RE will not take fees while distributions are not possible. Seems 75% of unit holders have dug a nice hole for us.
Does anyone else find JH’s statement to the GCBulletin arrogant…
And here’s what JH says about the NSX in today’s article.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
The last bid for PIN on the NXS is 45 cents, so why are some of us raving on about 5 cents (the first opening bid)?
Secondly, where are the sellers? I thought there were many (before the listing) who would have been interested in selling at 45 cents.
Thirdly, where are the other offers? I thought there would be a lot of people prepared to sell. So why haven't some listed at the price they are seeking, eg. 45 cents, 50 cents, and upwards etc? What's happened to these folk? If you really want to sell, tell us your price! Come on Great Doom. Lead the charge!
Rance
The last bid for PIN on the NXS is 45 cents, so why are some of us raving on about 5 cents (the first opening bid)?
Secondly, where are the sellers? I thought there were many (before the listing) who would have been interested in selling at 45 cents.
Thirdly, where are the other offers? I thought there would be a lot of people prepared to sell. So why haven't some listed at the price they are seeking, eg. 45 cents, 50 cents, and upwards etc? What's happened to these folk? If you really want to sell, tell us your price! Come on Great Doom. Lead the charge!
Rance
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Dora, let's just get the facts straight! just 5.6% voted against Item 1 with .4% abstentions. 7% and .58% for item 2, and 11.8% (me included) and .25% for item 3.
The open votes were to be used at the Chairperson's discretion, and JH had made it very clear which way she would go.
Dora, let's just get the facts straight! just 5.6% voted against Item 1 with .4% abstentions. 7% and .58% for item 2, and 11.8% (me included) and .25% for item 3.
The open votes were to be used at the Chairperson's discretion, and JH had made it very clear which way she would go.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I wouldn’t expect to see any bids of 45 cents for over 2000 units. I’m sure it’s a dummy bidder as already mentioned and bidders like this would be hoping to buy in before the 3 cents per unit return and then will be hoping the buy back goes ahead at 45 cents. So nothing for them to loose if the buy back goes ahead, but 3 cents to gain. I don’t think it’s surprising that no one sold on day 1 of trading, it’s not like any of the 10,300 unit holders would have ever traded on the NSX before. Give them time.
That's right John it was more than 75% of unit holders that I have to thank for listing the fund. I think you missed the point.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Mr RANCH i would say 95% of PIF unit holders would not have a clue about share trading & probelley never owned a share in there life AS for that 45 cents on the NSX we both know who the bidder is Only wants to buy 2000 units its going to cost about $70 in fees to sell or buy them also //////The last bid for PIN on the NXS is 45 cents, so why are some of us raving on about 5 cents (the first opening bid)?
Secondly, where are the sellers? I thought there were many (before the listing) who would have been interested in selling at 45 cents.
Thirdly, where are the other offers? I thought there would be a lot of people prepared to sell. So why haven't some listed at the price they are seeking, eg. 45 cents, 50 cents, and upwards etc? What's happened to these folk? If you really want to sell, tell us your price! Come on Great Doom. Lead the charge!
Rance
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Dora - I agree there's something odd about the 45c bid. Smells like propaganda to me. I'll bet that the 45c valuation will be reported in the press if it goes through. That fact that it's only a $900 sale will be conveniently omitted.
All
As for selling, give us time. It's not like we can use our Comsec accounts. We have to shop around for a broker and then open an account. Welcome back to the 90s.
I searched the Macquarie website using their search tool for 'NSX' and 'National Stock Exchange' - zip.
Dora - I agree there's something odd about the 45c bid. Smells like propaganda to me. I'll bet that the 45c valuation will be reported in the press if it goes through. That fact that it's only a $900 sale will be conveniently omitted.
All
As for selling, give us time. It's not like we can use our Comsec accounts. We have to shop around for a broker and then open an account. Welcome back to the 90s.
I searched the Macquarie website using their search tool for 'NSX' and 'National Stock Exchange' - zip.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
That's right John it was more than 75% of unit holders that I have to thank for listing the fund. I think you missed the point.[/QUOTE]
No Dora, I think you have missed the point. 94% voted for the resolution.
............ and I really don't see what all the fuss is about with the NSX - if you don't like the price, then don't sell.
That's right John it was more than 75% of unit holders that I have to thank for listing the fund. I think you missed the point.[/QUOTE]
No Dora, I think you have missed the point. 94% voted for the resolution.
............ and I really don't see what all the fuss is about with the NSX - if you don't like the price, then don't sell.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
This from today's GC Bulletin:
Bargain-buy snub from PIF
by Nick Nichols and Shannon Willougbhy
October 17th, 2008
PREMIUM Income Fund investors have snubbed the first day's trading of their units on the secondary share market, the National Stock Exchange.
And they had good reason for doing so.
It was possibly the worst day for a debut on any market, after the main board suffered a 6 per cent drubbing as the ASX 200 dived 286 points to 4013.
But the bidders seeking a piece of the Premium Income Fund (PIF) were clearly vultures hoping to find a distressed elderly seller.
The first sizeable bid for the $1 face-value units in the former MFS-operated fund came in at just 15c, realising the worst nightmare for investors.
But one bidder had sought to buy at 'fair value', seeking 2000 units at 45c each for a total outlay of just $900.
Wellington Capital, which has cemented control of the fund after this week gaining overwhelming unit-holder approval on three resolutions, has previously said the fund was worth just 45c a unit as an ongoing concern, and just 14c if it were to be liquidated.
It appears most bidders on the NSX have taken a raider's stance, looking for a seller among unit-holders who have not seen a cent of return from the fund all year.
Two bidders yesterday were willing to pay 15c a unit for a combined 110,000 units, while one opportunist offered 5c each for 100,000 units.
But PIF investors weren't interested. Not a single offer to sell was made on the first day's trading with existing unit-holders hanging on to receive their promised distribution of 3c a unit before Christmas.
Wellington Capital boss Jenny Hutson has pledged that over the next three to five years she would return full value to unit-holders, who poured a combined $750 million into the fund.
As most investors are elderly, many see five years as a long-term timetable, but they are hopeful Wellington can resume a regular quarterly distribution next year.
One PIF investor, who declined to be named, said she was not surprised at the first day's trading.
"Unfortunately everyone's locked in there.
"There's just no way of getting your money out now."
Wellington Capital is proposing a limited unit buyback pitched at 45c a unit for just 5 per cent of the fund.
As a result, investors are unlikely to move any sooner on exiting their holding.
"I would imagine only people who are in extreme financial hardship and are extremely desperate (would sell)," said the investor.
She said PIF investors might jump at a 60c offer.
"But that's not going to happen."
Ms Hutson yesterday reiterated there was a 'better value outcome for investors over three to five years', the timeframe she has set to restore full value for investors.
"(The NSX listing) is not the panacea and obviously it's an extraordinary market," she said.
Meanwhile, PIF investors are still hoping for a full investigation of the fund's activities while it was under the control of MFS, now known as Octaviar.
In July, shortly after assuming control of PIF, Wellington Capital questioned the propriety of $147.5 million in loans made from the fund to MFS at the end of last year.
PIF is seeking a total of $197.5 million from Octaviar, which is in the hands of receivers.
Wellington Capital, along with other Octaviar creditors, is negotiating with the receivers to deliver a deed of company arrangement which could see about $44 million returned to the fund.
----------end----------
This from today's GC Bulletin:
Bargain-buy snub from PIF
by Nick Nichols and Shannon Willougbhy
October 17th, 2008
PREMIUM Income Fund investors have snubbed the first day's trading of their units on the secondary share market, the National Stock Exchange.
And they had good reason for doing so.
It was possibly the worst day for a debut on any market, after the main board suffered a 6 per cent drubbing as the ASX 200 dived 286 points to 4013.
But the bidders seeking a piece of the Premium Income Fund (PIF) were clearly vultures hoping to find a distressed elderly seller.
The first sizeable bid for the $1 face-value units in the former MFS-operated fund came in at just 15c, realising the worst nightmare for investors.
But one bidder had sought to buy at 'fair value', seeking 2000 units at 45c each for a total outlay of just $900.
Wellington Capital, which has cemented control of the fund after this week gaining overwhelming unit-holder approval on three resolutions, has previously said the fund was worth just 45c a unit as an ongoing concern, and just 14c if it were to be liquidated.
It appears most bidders on the NSX have taken a raider's stance, looking for a seller among unit-holders who have not seen a cent of return from the fund all year.
Two bidders yesterday were willing to pay 15c a unit for a combined 110,000 units, while one opportunist offered 5c each for 100,000 units.
But PIF investors weren't interested. Not a single offer to sell was made on the first day's trading with existing unit-holders hanging on to receive their promised distribution of 3c a unit before Christmas.
Wellington Capital boss Jenny Hutson has pledged that over the next three to five years she would return full value to unit-holders, who poured a combined $750 million into the fund.
As most investors are elderly, many see five years as a long-term timetable, but they are hopeful Wellington can resume a regular quarterly distribution next year.
One PIF investor, who declined to be named, said she was not surprised at the first day's trading.
"Unfortunately everyone's locked in there.
"There's just no way of getting your money out now."
Wellington Capital is proposing a limited unit buyback pitched at 45c a unit for just 5 per cent of the fund.
As a result, investors are unlikely to move any sooner on exiting their holding.
"I would imagine only people who are in extreme financial hardship and are extremely desperate (would sell)," said the investor.
She said PIF investors might jump at a 60c offer.
"But that's not going to happen."
Ms Hutson yesterday reiterated there was a 'better value outcome for investors over three to five years', the timeframe she has set to restore full value for investors.
"(The NSX listing) is not the panacea and obviously it's an extraordinary market," she said.
Meanwhile, PIF investors are still hoping for a full investigation of the fund's activities while it was under the control of MFS, now known as Octaviar.
In July, shortly after assuming control of PIF, Wellington Capital questioned the propriety of $147.5 million in loans made from the fund to MFS at the end of last year.
PIF is seeking a total of $197.5 million from Octaviar, which is in the hands of receivers.
Wellington Capital, along with other Octaviar creditors, is negotiating with the receivers to deliver a deed of company arrangement which could see about $44 million returned to the fund.
----------end----------
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
No Dora, I think you have missed the point. 94% voted for the resolution.
............ and I really don't see what all the fuss is about with the NSX - if you don't like the price, then don't sell.[/QUOTE] If you dont like the price then dont sell That quote is ok for the ones with plenty money But it bloody sad for all the others who are in need of money ///
No Dora, I think you have missed the point. 94% voted for the resolution.
............ and I really don't see what all the fuss is about with the NSX - if you don't like the price, then don't sell.[/QUOTE] If you dont like the price then dont sell That quote is ok for the ones with plenty money But it bloody sad for all the others who are in need of money ///
