Drug experimentation and dependence

[2020hindsight]

hell I'm not a christian
but
if I were to say a prayer, it would go something like this ...

"hey lord but you have given me one mind
and lord but you have given me one body
hence lord, may I be able to able to "unwind"
with nothing stronger than a rum and toddy"

(sorry but crap poetry is my forte )

 

[1234]

I pretty sure if any of you good people here at ASF took one pill one night with a few drinks, with your husband / wife. You would enjoy it and look back on it, that it was an experience, i doubt that you would get addicted to it, and your life would be worthless unless you were on it.

I actually take offense to this comment.

My wife and I recently spent our wedding anniversary on a cruise up the river. No drugs taken and I'll assure you my life that day was worth a HELL of alot more than yours ever has been, or will be!!


Life is a pretty amazing drug too... You should try one..


BTW, your grammar is deplorable. "What side effects?"

 

[noirua]

hell I'm not a christian
but
if I were to say a prayer, it would go something like this ...

"hey lord but you have given me one mind
and lord but you have given me one body
hence lord, may I be able to able to "unwind"
with nothing stronger than a rum and toddy"

(sorry but crap poetry is my forte )

Hi 2020, If only some idiots would follow the advice in your short poem. Only one small Rum & Toddy, however. - Good Luck

 

[Dukey]

.....

3,4-methylenedioxymethylamphetame is an amazing drug. It works by tricking your brain into releasing some of its stores of serotonin which is a feel good chemical, it also works by stopping the brain by reabsorbing the serotonin for a period of time, its for this reason it is known as a SSRI selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor.

After the MDMA wears off the brain starts to absorb all this extra serotonin, and becuase the MDMA made the brain release lots of serotonin it must now spend some time making more and not releasing as much, this is called the come down, some ppl might feel a little under the weather for a day, i know i dont though.

So... MDMA messes with your brain chemistry. Confuses its seratonin regulation. Is that good? Do you really believe there will be no legacy from that?
- It's russian roulette you guys are playing - even if you think you are in control.

Of course all drugs, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine.... even foods! - alter brain chemistry in various ways.

BUT - oils ain't oils - and molecules ain't molecules. Some drugs have greater potential to do lasting damage... just hope you make the right choices.

Another thought that occurred to me today .... many folks have said "some people just shouldn't take drugs". True - I agree - Same can be said of alcohol.

...Has anyone contributing here ever said to someone - "hey man - you are one of those people who just shouldn't take drugs"....

Do you think it works?? Of course not - it has the opposite effect. They go hell for leather - to prove they can handle it. "don't tell me how to live my life...blah blah'.

The "people who just shouldn't take drugs" Never understand, realise or accept that fact until After - usually long after - the damage has been done....

ANd once again - the families & kids pay the price.

 

[moXJO]

I don't think it's just about legalizing pills, but also the regulation and control of pills/drugs, etc. The time will come when industry and government realise that they can make a regulated and controlled industry out of the recreational drug market, much like that of the pharmaceutical industry. If you do a little research you'll find out that the good old pharmaceutical industry is not so different than your local friendly drug dealer. They are both pushers of various drugs which rely on the user to become dependent/addicted to the wares they are selling.

The amount of people that are on some sort of prescribed drug for whatever ailment far outweighs those that use "illegal" drugs. Some of these so called legally prescribed drugs can be as addictive if not more so than their illegal counterparts. I've read a few reports and articles on the topic(my partner is studying to become a naturopath so she can get her hands on some great info) and some of the numbers and figures are staggering - I understand why the industry makes the massive profits that it does.

Have a read or do a search on pain killer and/or sedative addiction if you want to some eye opening stats and figures. What concerns me the most is the prescription of drugs to kids who are being diagnosed with all kinds of pseudo-illnesses and ailments, ADD being a classic example.

Kremmen nailed it with his last paragraph. It's worth reading again -

And that's the point: We should decide what sort of society we want: One where we hand over power to the government to decide what's good for us, or one in which individuals have freedom of choice. Many people are total hypocrites, wanting freedom to do what they want, yet fighting against the freedoms of others. While we, as a society, remain two-faced and unprincipled, little will be solved.

Exactly how do you regulate things like ice??? Underage drinking is a massive problem atm I'd hate to see the effects of legalised drugs. Do you think the government is going to have required portions and that’s all people will take? More chance they will simply get it from where ever they want . This country loves to do things to excess drinking, gambling , fatty foods etc.Why expose more of the population to this filth.

 

[moXJO]

I pretty sure if any of you good people here at ASF took one pill one night with a few drinks, with your husband / wife. You would enjoy it and look back on it, that it was an experience, i doubt that you would get addicted to it, and your life would be worthless unless you were on it.




moXJO - when things are legal there are no more under world dealers, people dont deal alcohol or cigarettes anymore becuase they are legal, the same would happen for MDMA.

3,4-AARONPHETAMINE

Yeah enjoy the come downs paranoia and the rest of the crap you forgot to mention after you’ve been popping eggs for a while. I did the whole club scene starts off fine, but there’s generally more bad times that seem to get glossed over then the good.

There’s still illegal tobacco sales , and kids still get cigarettes and are drinking to excess. In your ideal world do we just buy as much drugs over the counter as we want?

 

[Gar]

hell I'm not a christian
but
if I were to say a prayer, it would go something like this ...

"hey lord but you have given me one mind
and lord but you have given me one body
hence lord, may I be able to able to "unwind"
with nothing stronger than a rum and toddy"

(sorry but crap poetry is my forte )

Rum is bad for your health, drugs are bad for your health, drink to much and you will stuff your liver, smoke to much and you will become a lazy bum.

are you going to become a drunkard 2020?

no I thought not

the same as my friends and I will enjoy the occasional pill or joint or line and we will not end up in the dole queue waiting for that next hit.... why? cos we got brains for ourselves.

there will always be weak people in all facets of life but that doesn't mean we are the ones to blame or drugs are to blame and it doesn't mean that we should have should have to endure rediculous penalties for situations that harm neither ourselves or the people around us

 

[theasxgorilla]

To those of you who advocate legalising drugs such as heroin, amphetamines, ice, and whatever else happens to be fashionable, could you describe just exactly how you would envisage this happening.

If it ever were to happen...and I bet my left nut it never will, sorry day-dreamers...this country would become the laughing stock of the world...as if Steve Irwin hasn't given us enough to live up to already...if rec-drugs were legalised then when we go overseas we'd probably never get hired for jobs in any decent first world country because the grown ups in those countries would know better than the let stoners or pill-poppers or speed or coke heads into positions of importance.

 

[Gar]

I assure you asx there are plenty of those people in positions of power as we speak.

something I dont get is a lot of you guys seem to think that drug taking is about fashion or "being cool?", thats a load of bollocks, kids mainly try drugs in curiosity.



I don't believe legalization has a chance in hell of working though

 

[wayneL]

"Soft" drugs are decriminalised in The Netherlands:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

Are they actually legal? The article seems to contradict itself. But certainly a policy of non enforcement is in place and soft drugs are very much out in the open.

And a bit of a discussion on the pros and cons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguments_for_and_against_drug_prohibition

I'm tentatively in favour of some level of decriminalization, but agree with ASX.G, way to emotive a topic for it to happen anytime soon, if ever.

 

[Gar]

ding ding ding

wayne has hit the money word "decriminalization"

that is a possibly the best answer yet.


grab a beer and a teddy mate

 

[theasxgorilla]

I assure you asx there are plenty of those people in positions of power as we speak.

I know! And there are alcoholics who hold high-level positions and positions of authority in countries like Sweden where a rec-drug-culture is practically non-existent.

Given the decision to make I'd still rather fight this battle on a single front and stick with alcohol as the primary legalised rec-drug. You could say, better the devil you know.

 

[Gar]

Well I'm off to bed guys n gals.

Remember, think freely and don't become too polarised you lot, its not a black and white question.

 

[2020hindsight]

...do you honestly believe that rum is less damaging to your health than moderate use of some of the drugs mentioned in this post?

hey gar, I do , and that's honest.

ok - have I occasionally regretted drinking too much alcohol ? - sure -
in fact a major vulnerability in my argument is that almost every embarrassing moment of my life has involved excessive booze -

(although the days of having to ask ..
"was that before or after I was sick in the swimming pool? "
are long since behind me )

But I still think that booze in moderation is a viable proposition...
and no way - ABSOLUTELY no way is meth viable - in ANY amount.

and (IMO anyways) that also goes for E and cocaine and heroin etc - I just can't see the need (not that I've tried them). Nor do my kids (thanks god - well at least not as far as hard drugs are concerned) - and I can tell you that they laugh a lot unassisted by drugs : 2twocents

me? - I'd prefer to go for a run m8 - or take the dog for a walk

Incidentally I believe that there is no difference between the cigarette companies and a common drug pusher .

I studied with an afghan - became good friends - he told me it was well known that long term users of pot were (often) regarded as mental cripples to some degree.

I coached a kid who flipped on marijuana - became a schizophrenic - young teenager - his father a man of the cloth no less - had to pull out of school - he will achieve a fraction of what he could have.

Dukey has mentioned his sister in similar predicament

Julia has mentioned her doctor friend who became a stranger to his own kids

One of us is arguably not seeing the wood for the trees mate

or else perhaps... we should (all) come back to this thread in 10 years - I think I will still think the same - and still treat all these drugs with utmost - I mean utmost - fear and respect ( purely because of the disrespect with which I believe it would treat me)

Finally, here's an excerpts from poems of Adam Lindsay Gordon - in the first, he is comparing the courage from alcohol vs a brave and skillful horse rider (which he was)

In the following, Gordon compares two types of courage, one from the stimulant of the bottle, one from the stimulant of the "saddle tree" (I would say a comparison of alcohol vs adrenelin :- the second you like to remember - the first you strictly cant forget because you cant bludy remember it in the first place !!) :-

on Booze vs Exhileration :-
from YE WEARY WAYFARER, FYTTE III
A Treatise on the Vine Tree vs the Saddle Tree. - Adam Lindsay GORDON

I reMember some words my father said, when I was an urchin vain,
god Rest rest his soul in his narrow bed, these ten long years has lain
when I Think one drop of the blood he bore, this faint heart surely must hold
it May be my fancy and nothing more, but the faint heart seemeth bold.

he Said that as from the blood of the grape, or from juice distilled from the grain,
false Vigour, soon to evaporate, is leant to nerve and brain,
so the Coward will dare on a gallant horse, what he never would dare alone,
beCause he exults in a borrowed force, and a hardihood not his own.

and it May be so, yet this difference lies 'twixt the vine and the saddle-tree,
the Spurious courage that drink supplies, sets our baser passions free,
but the Stumulant which the horseman feels when he gallops fast and straight,
to his Better nature most appeals and charity conquers fate.

as the Kindly sunshine thaws the snow, even malice and spite will yield
we could Almost welcome our mortal foe, in the saddle by flood and field
..........
now Tell me for once old horse of mine grazing round me loose and free,
does your Ancient equine heart repine for a burst of such companie...

A couple more poems by AL Gordon - kinda relevant ( albeit "approx")

YE WEARY WAYFARER, Fytte VI
POTTER's CLAY [An Allegorucal Interlude]

Though the pitcher that goes to the sparkling rill
Too oft gets broken at last,
There are scores of others its place to fill
When its earth to the earth is cast;
Keep that pitcher at home, may it never roam,
but lie like a useless clod,
Yet sooner or later the hour will come
When its chips are thrown to the sod.

Is it wise, then, say, in the waning day,
When the vessel is crack'd and old,
To cherish the battered potters clay ,
As thoughit were virgin gold?
Take care of yourself, dull, boorish elf,
Though prudent and safe you seem,
Your pitcher will break on the musty shelf
And mine by the dazzling stream.

and another - you can feel the horse hard held approaching a jump -

from YE WEARY WAYFARER, Fytte VII
.........
Oh the vigour with which the air is rife !
The spirit of joyous motion;
The fever, the fullness of animal life,
Can be drained from no earthly potion!
The lungs with the living gas grow light,
and the limbs feel the strength of ten,
While the chest expands with its madd'ning might
GOD'S GLORIOUS OXYGEN.

Thus the measured stroke, on elastic sward,
Of the steed three parts extended,
Hard held, the breath of his nostrils broad,
With the golden ether blended;
Then the leap, the rise from the springing turf,
The rush through the buoyant air,
And the light shock landing - the veriest serf
Is an emperor then and there......

PS We have as ritual at work - we all feign enthusiasm about a bludy weekly get-together with egg and bacon rolls - guess what - it actually becomes a real buzz! - and we are look forward to it lol - no drugs (unless you call ham and / or egg a drug ) - it's all attitude m8 (IMO)

 

[2020hindsight]

they used to say eat strange tastes with pot ...
well
here are a few weird effects to try with a beer - or sober for that matter, lol - (NB you have to use headphones ok - important)

Virtual Barber Shop (Audio...use headphones)
PS you'll get the effect after 30 seconds - stick it out as long as you can though - lol - preferably with someone watching your back

and lol , I for one found it bloody disconcerting ... was happy to terminate it .

comments on the youtube include ...

was freaking out so much when i listened to this- i was cringing when he puts the bag over your head and the razor part too!! everyone in math was talking about this today so i thought id better check it out. definitely worth it

scariest haircut i ever had. it freaked me out roflmfao!"!!!

This is the best piece of work with audio i have heard this year, by far!
I rarely find any clips that actually takes advantage of the "from-left-to-right speaker"sound.

etc

btw here's a bloke high on weed listening to it ..
Virtual Haircut whilst stoned on weed

 

[2020hindsight]

Meth-Not Even Once

Montana Meth Ads: Bathtub

Montana Meth Ads: Junkie Den

 

[JeSSica WaBBit]

Julia - to try and answer a few of your questions.

This is my opinion only, i dont push this on anyone and would just say again, everyone should be allowed to do as they please without having others try and make them conform to their views.

Is recreational drugs just as phase?
Good question, not sure, but i think i will use them on and off until i leave this world of ours.
I dont ever plan to be in a nursing home, i'd rather be dead than there. Who wants to not be able to remember your own name and not have control of your bodily functions, not me.
I don't measure life by how long i live, i measure it by the experiences i have and the fun things i do. I'd rather live to 40 and have done as much as i could rather than live to 100 and have done very little.
At the same time i dont have a death wish and plan to go on as long as i am enjoying myself.

Reasoning behind drug use?
I use them to further enhance an already enjoyable experience. Also, with E, it is the type of people in the club or group and the atmosphere, everyone is happy, no fights, no issues, how life should be. Thats why i avoid boozy places, its hell.
Without being smart, it is very difficult to explain to someone who has never used it.
It also opens up your mind, i dont know how to explain that either.

Its not to fill an empty space, its a choice, like when you go to the pub and have a few beers, i might go out and have a line of coke and a pill of E. I think this is a big part of the problem, many people just cant get their head around this because they have been brain washed by people saying ALL drugs are evil and will kill you. Its just not true.
Of course drugs can kill you, so can exceeding the limit and driving recklessly, so can consuming too much alcohol, so can smoking too many cigarette and even if you drink too much water it can kill you. What i am trying to say is that everything in moderation is fine.

If you lost your job for whatever reason, would you buy drugs if it came to a financial choice between that and food?

Of course not, you are getting confused between drug addicts and recreational drug users.
Its like alcoholics and the guy who has a few beverages with his mates. The alcoholic will of course by more booze before he feeds his family but your average bloke on the street will not.

Okay - on legalising drugs you ask,

Re legalising drugs: to do this would be to say to young people who have never used drugs (and older people too for that matter) that it's fine.
Just roll up to your friendly family pharmacy and get your week's supply of whatever paid for by the taxpayer. Just to go with the free needles and the state run hygienic injecting rooms.

I do not advocate legalising all drugs, drugs aint drugs as far as i am concerned (just my opinion). This is another HUGE problem, you cant just have a blanket statement that says they are all good or bad, you have to judge each individually.
Saying that, i'd legalise weed. coke, MDMA (E), mushrooms to begin with and look at the others.
I just believe peolpe should be able to have a choice. Making them illegal certainly does not work, look at the mess we have got ourselves into. Young people will always experiment, so you may as well at least let them get clean substances so they know 100% for sure what they are taking.
Of course some numpties will still abuse them as they do with everything, numpties are numpties and they always will be numpties.

You say - Yes, I know drug use has been with us always. And yes, I appreciate that legalising drug use would largely eliminate much crime, but given the drug induced psychoses I have seen with the consequent permanent effects on personality and general health, not to mention the destruction of relationships, I don't believe legalisation of currently illicit drugs will ever happen. The majority of Australians are too sensible to allow it.

All i'd say to that is, we have been trying to go along the path of illegalisation of drugs for some time now. It does not work, crime grows, people are not educated and usage continues to grow expodentially.
So those who are too sensible too allow it, may just be the cause of the problem.
Time to start thinking Australia, look at what is really happening and provide a sensible solution.

You say - To those of you who advocate legalising drugs such as heroin, amphetamines, ice, and whatever else happens to be fashionable, could you describe just exactly how you would envisage this happening.
Do you pick it up from Woolworths along with your groceries?
Do you rock on up to your friendly GP for a prescription along with your antibiotics for the latest bacteria?
Who would pay for your drugs? The tax payer?
Just a little detail on how exactly you envisage this nirvana would be welcome.

Once again - each drug needs to be looked at on an idividual basis just as they do at present with legal prescription drugs, same process.
Just as prescription drugs all vary in strength and effect so do the non prescription drugs.
Prescription drugs are more than capable of taking you out of this world for good, if you are stupid enough to dose yourself over the recommended rate.
Same thing applies for every drug, dose is the key and knowing what you are putting inside your body which comes back to education.

I'd say let people have weed and E in cafes like Amsterdam. The others let people get from a chemist with a prescription from a doctor. As for price, happy to pay the same as the street value but knowing i was getting a clean product.

Not sure if that helps or if i have even explained it very well?

But, at the end of the day, people are using these substances by choice and they will continue to use them at an ever growing pace.
The current system is a total shambles for eveyone, its just a joke.

The Ned Flanderers have got it wrong and until they realise we need change the debarcle will continue...........................JW

 

[2020hindsight]

The Ned Flanderers have got it wrong and until they realise we need change the debarcle will continue...........................JW

I doodley don't know how you can be so doodley sure about that !
Jessica - intersting to read your take on it (and others aaron etc) - worrying but interesting lol.

(sheesh, never thought I'd be lining up with the Ned FLanders of the world, lol!)

PS I agree with safe injecting rooms btw

[ so defi-diddley-efinateley sure about that ?? ]

Nedward 'Ned' Flanders is a fictional character on The Simpsons, voiced by Harry Shearer. ....often overly pompous in nature. Flanders, being amongst the most friendly and compassionate characters in the series (probably rivaled only by Lisa and Marge in terms of general good-heartedness)

PS hey Jessica - Are Marge and Lisa also wrong lol?

. often serves as a positive representation of Evangelicals, leaning away from the "Fire and Brimstone" stereotype. Nevertheless, the writers of the show (most of whom consider themselves liberal) also often use the character as a mean to criticize fundamentalism and extreme social conservatism.

Flanders was named after Flanders St. in Portland, Oregon, the hometown of Simpsons creator Matt Groening.[1]

[edit] Personality
Ned is a genuinely well-meaning and good-natured person, one of the few in Springfield who can make that claim. Though firmly religious, he can be timid and something of a pushover. He is also often insecure. He is obsessed with following the Bible as literally as possible ("even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff") and is easily shocked when challenged on any point of dogma. This has led to his frequent calls to Reverend Lovejoy ("I... I think I'm coveting my own wife!") who has become increasingly frustrated with Flanders ("Have you thought about one of the other major religions? They're all pretty much the same."), who passive-aggressively avenges himself by encouraging his Olde English Sheepdog to defecate on Ned's lawn. Ned is 60 years old.

lol

....Despite a meek outward appearance, Ned hides an exceptionally well-built physique under his pink shirt and green sweater combination. When he is revealed to be in his early 60s in "Viva Ned Flanders" Ned claims his deceptively youthful appearance is due to his conformity to the "Three Cs": "Clean living, Chewing thoroughly, and a daily dose of vitamin Church!" This age would seem to be contradicted in the episode "Hurricane Neddy", where it's revealed that he was in a mental hospital "30 years ago," and is shown a video in which he appears to be a child.[2]

Both Ned and his family rarely refer to his moustache as such, preferring nicknames such as "Nose Neighboor," "Mr. Tickles," "The Soup Strainer," "The Cookie Duster," "The Pushbroom," and "Dr. Fuzzenstein." He once shaved it off, after Homer implied that people were mocking Ned's facial hair behind his back. Ned's moustache would also affect his decision to move to the fictional town of Humbleton, PA. After being hired at the town's Humble figurine manufacturing factory in "Home Away from Homer", Ned was ordered to shave his moustache, due to an unofficial ban on facial hair. Ned defiantly refused to shave his moustache for which he was labelled a troublemaker.

[edit] Speech patterns
Ned has the odd habit of attaching "diddly," "doodly" and other nonsensical phrases to his sentences. "Hi-diddly-ho, neighbourino," is a common example.[3] This is the result of sublimated anger caused by his upbringing, anger which has no other outlet.

His extreme prudishness makes him averse to saying "sex" aloud, even when there are no children in sight — he either spells it out or sheepishly calls it "doodily." Ned also uses the word "doodle," "flander-doodle" or "shrinky-dink" when referring to a penis. In the Simpsons Road Rage game, when you scroll over him, he says, "Ned Flanders at your ser-diddly-ervice!"

 

[noirua]

Law and order is quite basic. If the punishment does not fit the crime, then the crime becomes worthwhile. It's all about keeping crime at low levels, otherwise, the police forces become larger and larger and the prisons as well.

People who are involved in drug trafficking should be shot by firing squad. That should also apply to those who sell drugs. No need for bigger prisons and the reoffending rate would be 0%. Persons found bringing drugs into the country should also be shot.

Be tough on crime and the causes of crime!

 

[Mofra]

if rec-drugs were legalised then when we go overseas we'd probably never get hired for jobs in any decent first world country because the grown ups in those countries would know better than the let stoners or pill-poppers or speed or coke heads into positions of importance.

Ummm... hate to mention this to you, but you would be surprised at the number of professionals & other people in "positions of importance" who are regular recreational users (petinant hint for this site - ever been to a shareholder meeting?). Most of them (that I speak to) do so simply because it is far easier to work at full capacity after a night involving a few lines, than it is after a drinking session.

Unfortunately, people view drugs as a black & white issue; legal = good, illegal = bad.
There are shades of grey that need to be considered. Some people can drink in moderation. Some people can use softer recreational drugs in moderation.
Some people should avoid stimulants altogether.

By the same token, some people can't resist fatty foods, in a time when heart disease is out no 1 killer. Should be start placing bans on chips, pies & preservative laden snacks? What about artifical sweeteners, many of which are appetisers that cause people to eat more anyway?

I'm not advocating easy access to heroin or ice, however the effect of illegal substances on the human body does not change depending on how we attach social stigma to it.