Drug experimentation and dependence

[Happy]

Hard to make comment and not offend somebody.

I remember a while ago when normal people died because of drug addicts in Sydney’s Liverpool suburb area were rescued by ambos for n-th time in one day.

My take on this one?

Well do as you please, but pay for your own stupidity if rescue is needed, don’t let us to fix your problems caused by your actions.

No money, no problem, NO FREE RIDE.

 

[stockGURU]

Well do as you please, but pay for your own stupidity if rescue is needed, don’t let us to fix your problems caused by your actions.

No money, no problem, NO FREE RIDE.

No doubt you will also agree that smokers, drinkers and the obese should pay for any medical expenses related to their self-inflicted conditions.

 

[Lucky]

No doubt you will also agree that smokers, drinkers and the obese should pay for any medical expenses related to their self-inflicted conditions.

Would that be the 1.5% Medicare levy that all good tax paying folk subsidise for those fortunate folk who may need or one day need those medical services due to their lifestyle choices?

 

[Happy]

No doubt you will also agree that smokers, drinkers and the obese should pay for any medical expenses related to their self-inflicted conditions.

If you think so, I am happy to agree.

 

[professor_frink]

My take on this one?

Well do as you please, but pay for your own stupidity if rescue is needed, don’t let us to fix your problems caused by your actions.

No money, no problem, NO FREE RIDE.

only a small step from that to anyone that has made a poor lifestyle choice being denied an ambulance. Where would you draw the line?

 

[Happy]

only a small step from that to anyone that has made a poor lifestyle choice being denied an ambulance. Where would you draw the line?

It can be as simple as you want it to be and as difficult as it is now.

I’ll probably better answer with question, why heart attack sufferer was left to die in order to resuscitate (not the first time this day) overdosed drug addict?

This is inevitable choice irrespective of how capable ambulance service is.
Simple numbers game in 5 million residents city.

Poor life choice is just that, poor life choice but still choice and there are consequences.
Sooner we go back to being responsible for our own actions the better.

 

[cuttlefish]

And Happy - if it were your son, daughter, brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt, wife, lover etc. ec. in the situation of needing an ambulance due to their "lifestyle choice" would you still agree?

Or do drug addicts only have loser drug addict relatives and thus noone but the drug addict is affected if they die due to a drug overdose?

Do you think the parents of Annabel Catt would support this idea?

Do you think that not providing an ambulance for her, had she been rescuable, would have been a good thing?

What about a first time user - a 17 year old thats tried an ecstacy after peer pressure - do you deny them the ambulance?

Or maybe 000 should have 50 line questionairre before sending out an ambulance:

* have you ever taken drugs?
* are you suffering an overdose?
* have you ever eaten the fat on your steak?
* have you ever eaten more than 100g of icecream in one sitting?
* did you do at least 20 minutes of exercise yesterday?
* did you ever wag school?
* have you ever shouted at anybody?
* have you ever taken a day off work sick when you weren't really sick?
* have you ever cheated on a partner?

must be nice being perfect.

 

[Kremmen]

Hmm yes and no, i have known 1 person that just with 1 bad pill (ecstacy) they have died as there body just couldnt cope.

Knowledge is power. If the pills were legal and regulated, people would know what they were getting and this would prevent most drug deaths.

Now, the problem with this whole topic is that whether you agree with this may well go back to some fundamental attitudes towards life. I believe in freedom of choice. Some people believe in the nanny state looking after them and not having to take responsibility for themselves. While not my viewpoint, it is a valid viewpoint, and will lead to totally different conclusions.

The situation here is similar to other "sins" like gambling. 1% of us have problems with gambling and become obsessive. Should we protect 1% of the population by denying the freedom of the other 99% to engage in a particular activity? Governments have, in recent years, been allowing casinos to open. Of course, this may not be because they fundamentally approve of freedom. It's more likely because of the short-term financial gain in taxes.

And that's the point: We should decide what sort of society we want: One where we hand over power to the government to decide what's good for us, or one in which individuals have freedom of choice. Many people are total hypocrites, wanting freedom to do what they want, yet fighting against the freedoms of others. While we, as a society, remain two-faced and unprincipled, little will be solved.

 

[Happy]

And Cuttlefish - if it were your son, daughter, brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt, wife, lover etc. ec. in the situation of needing an ambulance due to their "lifestyle choice" and at the same time if it were your son, daughter, brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt, wife, lover etc. ec. in the situation of needing an ambulance due to their non-drug related condition.

There is only one ambulance at the time of both calls.

What would you do?

Where would you send the life saving ambulance?

 

[mark70920]

Happy if one of your relatives had a heart attack due to the high intake of fatty foods for the last thirty odd years ( a life style choice ) and my relative got hit by a drunk driver both critical where would you send the ambulance?

If drugs were legal and quality controlled there would be a lot less overdoses , we could then tax them and put the money in to health care and education ,like we do with alcohol and tobacco taxes.

 

[Ageo]

Knowledge is power. If the pills were legal and regulated, people would know what they were getting and this would prevent most drug deaths.

Now, the problem with this whole topic is that whether you agree with this may well go back to some fundamental attitudes towards life. I believe in freedom of choice. Some people believe in the nanny state looking after them and not having to take responsibility for themselves. While not my viewpoint, it is a valid viewpoint, and will lead to totally different conclusions.

The situation here is similar to other "sins" like gambling. 1% of us have problems with gambling and become obsessive. Should we protect 1% of the population by denying the freedom of the other 99% to engage in a particular activity? Governments have, in recent years, been allowing casinos to open. Of course, this may not be because they fundamentally approve of freedom. It's more likely because of the short-term financial gain in taxes.

And that's the point: We should decide what sort of society we want: One where we hand over power to the government to decide what's good for us, or one in which individuals have freedom of choice. Many people are total hypocrites, wanting freedom to do what they want, yet fighting against the freedoms of others. While we, as a society, remain two-faced and unprincipled, little will be solved.

Mate i totally agree with you, i was just stating to the other fellow that 1 pill can make a difference. But people should be able to have choice as you have stated. Soon will be asking for permission to take a piss.

 

[moXJO]

Knowledge is power. If the pills were legal and regulated, people would know what they were getting and this would prevent most drug deaths.

I don’t see how legalizing pills will save lives. People will pop those, then when they are at the club simply buy more from the dealers. How do you regulate something like that? At what age do you limit it at, and then what’s stopping dealers selling to younger children. Freedom of choice is not always good for the masses. Look at all the overweight people in Aust from something that’s legal(yeah great self control there) lets drug em all up as well and see how we go then.

On a side note: Heroin fell out of favor with younger people simply because it was viewed as uncool to be a junkie. The use of pot has also declined for similar reasons. However ice is getting a bit more rampant.

 

[JeSSica WaBBit]

Julia - people have to take responsibility for their own actions, i accept the risk of using recreational drugs, i enjoy using them and i will continue to use them. I dont see a problem with it at all, end of story as far as i am concerned.
If you dont like the idea of using them, its easy, stay away from them but for the rest of us who would prefer half an E to a few drinks let us do what we like.

Recreational drug use is extremely wide spead, common i would say. Those who don't use would most likely not have a full understanding as those who do, because those who do try and be discrete.

I have no doubt that many drugs will be legalised in the future. It comes down to choice, its my life, if i want to use them i should be allowed.

Wiskers - harmful effects depend on the dose, they could range from mild effects to death at the extreme.

But mate, there are plenty of things that can kill you in this world, if you worry about that sort of thing you'll never do anything.
Its all about risk, taking a pill of E is a very minimal risk to your health but the amazing experience is well worth it.
Life is to be lived, i am a life liver, when i finally die i want to know that i crammed in as much and as many experiences as i could.


Lucky - I lived in London for three years, it was a blast. I agree with everything you have said. I had a very good job there and partyed non stop, some of the best clubs i the world. Best time of my life, not one single regret!

 

[stockGURU]

But mate

Something tells me the only thing that's female about 'Jessica' is his username.

 

[aaronphetamine]

I pretty sure if any of you good people here at ASF took one pill one night with a few drinks, with your husband / wife. You would enjoy it and look back on it, that it was an experience, i doubt that you would get addicted to it, and your life would be worthless unless you were on it.

3,4-methylenedioxymethylamphetame is an amazing drug. It works by tricking your brain into releasing some of its stores of serotonin which is a feel good chemical, it also works by stopping the brain by reabsorbing the serotonin for a period of time, its for this reason it is known as a SSRI selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor.

After the MDMA wears off the brain starts to absorb all this extra serotonin, and becuase the MDMA made the brain release lots of serotonin it must now spend some time making more and not releasing as much, this is called the come down, some ppl might feel a little under the weather for a day, i know i dont though.



moXJO - when things are legal there are no more under world dealers, people dont deal alcohol or cigarettes anymore becuase they are legal, the same would happen for MDMA.

3,4-AARONPHETAMINE

 

[Lucky]

I don’t see how legalizing pills will save lives. People will pop those, then when they are at the club simply buy more from the dealers. How do you regulate something like that? At what age do you limit it at, and then what’s stopping dealers selling to younger children. Freedom of choice is not always good for the masses. Look at all the overweight people in Aust from something that’s legal(yeah great self control there) lets drug em all up as well and see how we go then.

On a side note: Heroin fell out of favor with younger people simply because it was viewed as uncool to be a junkie. The use of pot has also declined for similar reasons. However ice is getting a bit more rampant.

I don't think it's just about legalizing pills, but also the regulation and control of pills/drugs, etc. The time will come when industry and government realise that they can make a regulated and controlled industry out of the recreational drug market, much like that of the pharmaceutical industry. If you do a little research you'll find out that the good old pharmaceutical industry is not so different than your local friendly drug dealer. They are both pushers of various drugs which rely on the user to become dependent/addicted to the wares they are selling.

The amount of people that are on some sort of prescribed drug for whatever ailment far outweighs those that use "illegal" drugs. Some of these so called legally prescribed drugs can be as addictive if not more so than their illegal counterparts. I've read a few reports and articles on the topic(my partner is studying to become a naturopath so she can get her hands on some great info) and some of the numbers and figures are staggering - I understand why the industry makes the massive profits that it does.

Have a read or do a search on pain killer and/or sedative addiction if you want to some eye opening stats and figures. What concerns me the most is the prescription of drugs to kids who are being diagnosed with all kinds of pseudo-illnesses and ailments, ADD being a classic example.

Kremmen nailed it with his last paragraph. It's worth reading again -

And that's the point: We should decide what sort of society we want: One where we hand over power to the government to decide what's good for us, or one in which individuals have freedom of choice. Many people are total hypocrites, wanting freedom to do what they want, yet fighting against the freedoms of others. While we, as a society, remain two-faced and unprincipled, little will be solved.

 

[Whiskers]

Wiskers - harmful effects depend on the dose, they could range from mild effects to death at the extreme.

But mate, there are plenty of things that can kill you in this world, if you worry about that sort of thing you'll never do anything.
Its all about risk, taking a pill of E is a very minimal risk to your health but the amazing experience is well worth it.
Life is to be lived, i am a life liver, when i finally die i want to know that i crammed in as much and as many experiences as i could.

Hi Jessica

I'm just curious. I want to have fun too, but I also want to stay young and healthy for as long as possible too. Given that the use of extacy, although it feels great, puts a severe strain on your heart, lungs and kidney while on the high and as you say effects your emotions, but also memory and reasoning, I am curious how to tell when it is starting to be too much and starting to affect my memory and reasoning.

How do you moniter the effects for you?

 

[cuttlefish]

And Cuttlefish - if it were your son, daughter, brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt, wife, lover etc. ec. in the situation of needing an ambulance due to their "lifestyle choice" and at the same time if it were your son, daughter, brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt, wife, lover etc. ec. in the situation of needing an ambulance due to their non-drug related condition.

There is only one ambulance at the time of both calls.

What would you do?

Where would you send the life saving ambulance?

If they were both my relatives, and both needing a life saving ambulance, it would be a tough choice, but I would probably pick the one that hadn't had the chance to live their life yet. i.e. if it was an 80 year old grandmother that had had a good life, or a 22 year old son that hadn't had a chance to have much of a life yet, I have a pretty good idea who I'd send it to - and I also have a pretty good idea which out of that scenario are more likely to have a heart attack vs a drug overdose.

Drug addicts come from all walks of life and are not all hopeless lost causes. Many are capable of making a fantastic contribution to society if they overcome their problems. There are also many drug addicts that are contributing to society whilst also managing a drug habit (this is particularly pertinent when you consider that alcohol is a drug). There are also many young people that get lost along the way for various reasons and need help at some point but get back on track again. I don't believe in being judgemental, nobody deliberately becomes an addict, and I feel sorry for anyone that is an addict because its a miserable life for them.

 

[Julia]

I pretty sure if any of you good people here at ASF took one pill one night with a few drinks, with your husband / wife. You would enjoy it and look back on it, that it was an experience, i doubt that you would get addicted to it, and your life would be worthless unless you were on it.

3,4-methylenedioxymethylamphetame is an amazing drug. It works by tricking your brain into releasing some of its stores of serotonin which is a feel good chemical, it also works by stopping the brain by reabsorbing the serotonin for a period of time, its for this reason it is known as a SSRI selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor.

After the MDMA wears off the brain starts to absorb all this extra serotonin, and becuase the MDMA made the brain release lots of serotonin it must now spend some time making more and not releasing as much, this is called the come down, some ppl might feel a little under the weather for a day, i know i dont though.



moXJO - when things are legal there are no more under world dealers, people dont deal alcohol or cigarettes anymore becuase they are legal, the same would happen for MDMA.

3,4-AARONPHETAMINE

Could you explain how the SSRI's you are describing differ from the SSRI's which are widely prescribed as antidepressants, e.g. Prozac etc?

 

[Julia]

To those of you who have happily proclaimed your drug use, could you say whether you consider this a phase of your life which you will eventually tire of, or whether you plan to continue using illegal drugs in the nursing home.
(might be a problem getting them there perhaps).

And could you explain the reasoning behind your drug use, i.e. is it just that it adds a further dimension of experience to your existence, that it's just fun, that you enjoy the frisson of doing something illegal, that it's what you do to belong in your crowd (e.g. would you do it if your friends weren't doing it also?) or is your life somehow lacking in a sense of purpose and you are looking to fill in the empty space? I'm just trying to understand here, and not making any assumptions about any of the above suggestions.

If you lost your job for whatever reason, would you buy drugs if it came to a financial choice between that and food?

Re legalising drugs: to do this would be to say to young people who have never used drugs (and older people too for that matter) that it's fine.
Just roll up to your friendly family pharmacy and get your week's supply of whatever paid for by the taxpayer. Just to go with the free needles and the state run hygienic injecting rooms.

Yes, I know drug use has been with us always. And yes, I appreciate that legalising drug use would largely eliminate much crime, but given the drug induced psychoses I have seen with the consequent permanent effects on personality and general health, not to mention the destruction of relationships, I don't believe legalisation of currently illicit drugs will ever happen. The majority of Australians are too sensible to allow it.

To those of you who advocate legalising drugs such as heroin, amphetamines, ice, and whatever else happens to be fashionable, could you describe just exactly how you would envisage this happening.
Do you pick it up from Woolworths along with your groceries?
Do you rock on up to your friendly GP for a prescription along with your antibiotics for the latest bacteria?
Who would pay for your drugs? The tax payer?
Just a little detail on how exactly you envisage this nirvana would be welcome.