The Voice

[SirRumpole]

There we could discuss who made a degree a prerequisite for a baristas job and who brought in competency standards to gut the apprenticeship training scheme, that should be a good start.

While the Coalition was still in government.

Australian universities brace for ‘ugly’ 2022 after budget cuts

Funding reduced by nearly 10% over three years, while Tafe spending slashed by 24%

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

Check out this take on The Voice. Funny, on the ball.

 

[sptrawler]

While the Coalition was still in government.

Australian universities brace for ‘ugly’ 2022 after budget cuts

Funding reduced by nearly 10% over three years, while Tafe spending slashed by 24%

www.theguardian.com

Yes same as the better schools brain fart that Labor started and then the next Govt has to fund and nothing can be done about it until Labor get back in, or if they tried the media start screaming about it.
NDIS is another one, Labor are slashing the funding as they should, do you think for one minute the media would let the other side do it?
What beggars belief is that many can't see the brain washing going on, well that is for a while, then Labor get thrown out and the cycle repeats.
Who will be responsible for the financial fallout if the voice gets up, it probably wont be Labor because they are already on the nose.
Wash rinse repeat.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Check out this take on The Voice. Funny, on the ball.

Is there any proof anywhere where they've polled every indiginous in Australia to say 80% of them want it?

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes same as the better schools brain fart that Labor started and then the next Govt has to fund and nothing can be done about it until Labor get back in, or if they tried the media start screaming about it.
NDIS is another one, Labor are slashing the funding as they should, do you think for one minute the media would let the other side do it?
What beggars belief is that many can't see the brain washing going on, well that is for a while, then Labor get thrown out and the cycle repeats.
Who will be responsible for the financial fallout if the voice gets up, it probably wont be Labor because they are already on the nose.
Wash rinse repeat.

Well, that's an indication that the political system itself is broken and it's probably a result of many things including ridiculously small election terms ( should be 5 years) and the fact that political donors have more influence on policy than normal voters.

I think the normal voter is in more need of a voice to Parliament than a small group of disgruntled tribes.

 

[IFocus]

Your post actually supports smurfs points, Labor are fighting tooth and nail for those most needy, social housing and increasing the aboriginal affairs portfolio, which will be funded by the middle class wage slave.

Meanwhile the rich are gong to get a tax cut, while the value of their property portfolios skyrocket.

Meanwhile the aspirational wage slave sees their dream of buying a house dissapear, which is the main purpose that they go to work for, so really what @Smurf1976 said is actually far more an accurate summation than your cult like hyme sheet belief in a bygone era.
No one is saying that those less fortunate shouldnt be looked after, but when you end up with workers ending up back in the social housing queues as it was in the 1960's, have Labor really looked after the middle class? Pointing the finger at the opposition no longer works, the opposition didn't lift the retirement age, they didn't hammer the single mothers, they didn't stuff the education system and they aren't the ones who are currently shattering workers dreams by mass imigration and soaring rents and house prices.
That's what the blue collar sees, not some bygone dream and wives tales, that's why the middle class is leaving Labor in droves and their support has shifted to the elites as the gap between the the haves and have nots accelerates.
One of the main underlying problems Labor has is that it has been hijacked by the elites, it is full of upwardly mobile intellectuals, lawyers etc that have never lived in the bush, it's become an upper class w@nk tank of dreamers IMO

Is there free alcohol on that trip?

Were the workers stripped of their penalty rates wage slaves?

Who stripped, defunded, contracted out TAFE?

 

[sptrawler]

Is there free alcohol on that trip?

Were the workers stripped of their penalty rates wage slaves?

Who stripped, defunded, contracted out TAFE?

The workers who are from France are rioting in the streets because the pension age has gone to 64.
We got our penalty rates back, we didn't get our 65 retirement back, thanks Kev. The problem with your mob, they enshrine crap, then throw out the BS bombs about penalty rates. That's why the workers detest them. Lol

Who stripped and defunded TAFE ? Both sides of politics, because we removed tarrifs and lost all our manufacturing, therefore apprentice numbers tanked, thanks Paul. Lol

Now we are importing tradesmen, because your mob told everyone to go to Uni and do an arts degree, to become a barista.
Then made all the polytechnical colleges Unis, so they could handle the massive increase in numbers obtaining a worthless degree, because everyone was now going to Uni the standards dropped down the World rankings.
But fees had to be introduced because 50% of students were now going to Uni, so the wage slave couldn't support it anymore. Meanwhile fewer and fewer were doing apprenticeships obviously. Lol

You should join another cult, this one is warping your memory.
You need to think a bit more on cause and effect, than headline grabbing one liners.

 

[basilio]

Is there any proof anywhere where they've polled every indiginous in Australia to say 80% of them want it?

No one ever polls "every person" to get an idea of the communities views. They do undertake surveys which poll a representative number.

Fact check: Do the polls show that Indigenous support for the Voice is between 80 and 90 per cent?

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has claimed surveys show Indigenous Australians support the Voice at a rate between 80 and 90 per cent. Is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

 

[basilio]

A view from outback Wyndham.

'They want jobs, not handouts': Why locals say the Voice could break a vicious cycle in this outback town

As debate rages in remote communities about whether a Voice to Parliament will improve the lives of Indigenous Australians, leaders in WA's northern-most town hope it can lift the next generation out of hopelessness to a place of prosperity.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Is there any proof anywhere where they've polled every indiginous in Australia to say 80% of them want it?

Well,

If Albanese had approached differently the Voice preparation and announcement to me and
If I could trust a petrie dish of future lawyers to not be self interested in using the constitution on being philosophical and fee generation, and
If equally I could trust any 80 representatives of a constituency of give or take one million disparate people to fairly represent them and
If it did not irrevocably change the constitution and
If it would not be detrimental to good governance and order,

This good advertisement might have swayed me to consider voting Yes.

But it didn't, which is the story of the Voice.

Poorly constructed, announced, considered and sold, the Voice will remain the brainfart of a small section of the Labor Party, all of the Green Party, ABC Virgins looking for a root, and Guardian readers everywhere.

The End.

gg

 

[sptrawler]

No one ever polls "every person" to get an idea of the communities views. They do undertake surveys which poll a representative number.

Fact check: Do the polls show that Indigenous support for the Voice is between 80 and 90 per cent?

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has claimed surveys show Indigenous Australians support the Voice at a rate between 80 and 90 per cent. Is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

Usually with a demagraphic group that return the outcome the polster requires.
Usually those that stay on the phone are those who have strong feelings one way or another on the issue, so it is just a representitive group of head bangers.

My wife and I are in our late 60's and have never agreed to answer a poll, because it is actually non of their business what we think and in reality they don't give a crap what we think, only the loonies think their opinion matters so they probably talk endlessly to the disinterested person on the other end of the line. Lol

"Many public opinion polls are still conducted by telephone using randomly-drawn samples or, even more common, are conducted online using opt-in samples. This substantial diversity in the polling field means that the results from this analysis do not necessarily hold true for any particular poll one might find."
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/09/21/does-public-opinion-polling-about-issues-still-work/#:~:text=Many public opinion polls are,particular poll one might find.

 

[TimeISmoney]

No one ever polls "every person" to get an idea of the communities views. They do undertake surveys which poll a representative number.

Fact check: Do the polls show that Indigenous support for the Voice is between 80 and 90 per cent?

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has claimed surveys show Indigenous Australians support the Voice at a rate between 80 and 90 per cent. Is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

There's no real accurate proof that 80% of them want it, it's another self proclaimed fact check. Surveys can also be manipulated to get the answers people want and on top of this, they're very small samples to take seriously.

The first poll, undertaken by Ipsos, was conducted online between January 20 and January 24, 2023, and surveyed 300 self-identified Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

The YouGov poll​

The second poll, conducted by YouGov between March 1 and March 21, was also conducted online. The company surveyed 15,060 Australians across the country and weighted them for age, gender, location, education and on how they voted at the 2022 election.

Of these, 738 were identified as being Indigenous from having answered a question on Indigenous identity either at the time or in a previous survey, a spokesman for YouGov told Fact Check.

 

[sptrawler]

A view from outback Wyndham.

'They want jobs, not handouts': Why locals say the Voice could break a vicious cycle in this outback town

As debate rages in remote communities about whether a Voice to Parliament will improve the lives of Indigenous Australians, leaders in WA's northern-most town hope it can lift the next generation out of hopelessness to a place of prosperity.

www.abc.net.au

Exactly, they had the abattoir there for years, I moved a generator from there to Kununurra in the 1980's when it shut down, why not restart meat export from there?
Panaramic resources export nickel from there, why not have them employ locals where possible, or are those options not fitting the narrative that there are no opportunities?
Jeez sometimes you wonder, or at least some of us do.

 

[sptrawler]

While the Coalition was still in government.

Australian universities brace for ‘ugly’ 2022 after budget cuts

Funding reduced by nearly 10% over three years, while Tafe spending slashed by 24%

www.theguardian.com

Sorry missed that, I'm on the phone. Lol
The fact is, as has been proved on most fronts, the middle class cant fund everything, before the 'clever country' brain fart 5% of students went to Uni, because believe it or not, only 5% of kids are brilliant.
Now we have 50% of students going to uni and a lot can't do basic maths and english, so how the hell you want to justify pouring more money into an absolute shambles is beyond me.
Even the new Govt, has realised the absolute FUp of the last 10 years and have told Unis, unless they can show that teacher graduates can teach the times table and basic english they will lose funding.
So I'm a bit disappointed your normal open mind, can't see the irony in your post.
Meanwhile the current Gov is trying to undo the mess that 10's of billions of extra funding that was poured into the education system in the last 10 years has still seen the slide continue.

That is why the current Govt has to fix up the mess, they dropped the changes on the last Govt, but they had to keep the funding going, as your post highlights, they reduce funding and it is thrown up by the media and rusted on endlessly.
That is the problem with blind prejudice, nothing is black and white, which the media present.
It is cause and effect, the West reduced tarrifs to reduce the cost of manufacturing, which sent manufacturing offshore, now we are grappling with the result of that, we cant compete with the countries we sent the manufacturing to.
So we say right we will outsmart them, but they have 100 times more people, so that's unlikely and they are rich enough to send their kids to our Unis so they learn the same $hit but arent as lazy as ours and their mum and dad are buying up our prime real estate.
It ain't going to end well.
But yep just thinking tribal, that helps. Lol

Also sorry if my spelling is bad, on a phone with a poor internet connection in a port, not the best situation when the wife wants to get back on the ship because it's ffing freezing. Lol

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://amp.smh.com.au/education/no-gonski-nirvana-why-australia-s-most-ambitious-education-reforms-have-failed-20220215-p59wpj.html&ved=2ahUKEwjh9JCk8uOBAxW40QIHHak0CXIQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0b76JsRgVXZ3A8fUMaNu_k

 

[sptrawler]

Back on the ship, wife happy so life's good, for now.
Anyway back on subject, now articles from the same media group.
Let's not forget the NBN and NDIS was dropped at the same time, ss well as renewables, Snowy2.0, battery of the nation, then an out of the blue covid complete national shutdown and bushfires and floods while the PM was on holidays, I mean seriously people need to step back a bit, this Govt has put constitutional change ahead of house prices and not a peep.
The last paragraph nails the education problem, it is the result of reinventing a wheel that didn't need fixing, we had the cream of universities, the highest regarded tradesmen in the world, but as usual it needed fixing. Lol
Also as usual they say it was the fault of poor funding, but again as usual, just an admission of another brain fart exploding in their faces.
Sadly I thought this time it would be different.

Or indeed this one.

I'm in no way infering one side is better than the other, they both fail to take a long term holistic view, neither side of politics present a vision of how we are going to stop the slide and create a better future for our grandkids, all they do is come up with a way to make some change so that they can feel they are doing something, even if it isn't for the better.
What we really need is a statesman that has a vision that can turn around our steady decline and unfortunately there isn't anyone on the horizon as yet, all we get is career politicians who couldn't make a living in the real world IMO.

 

[Smurf1976]

Without addressing that if I may I think your post lacks context.

The Coalition are currently fighting tooth and nail against Labors current legislation before parliament benefiting the very people you mention above.

The Coalition have also fought tooth and nail against Labor's housing policy to try and help address lack of housing for the disadvantage (I know it won't address the whole problem but its something against the Coalitions nothing)

I won't deny for a moment that the Coalition has also run off the rails. They've turned into a party of anti-science wreckers that dishes out spite while preaching religion so I'm in no way defending them.

Labor is however in government federally and in every state except Tasmania so it's the party of relevance right now.

Using the housing example, the basic problem I see with Labor is this:

They have it right with saying there's a need for social housing. For those at the bottom of society in economic terms that's always likely to be needed and credit where it's due for recognising that.

But what about the other ~two thirds who aren't at the bottom and who also aren't elites of any description? That is the ordinary workers, small business owners, retirees with modest wealth and so on. What's Labor doing for them?

For the bulk of the population what they're looking for in a house is just that, a freestanding house on land. That's by far the largest part of the market and on that point I'm not going to mess about. To provide that requires broad scale land development. It requires subdivisions with roads, footpaths and utilities put in and done so on a mass scale.

Now the elites have a name for this, they call it "urban sprawl" and use that term in a derogatory manner and consider it bad to the point it must be stopped.

Therein lies the problem. Labor keeps trying to appease the elites rather than delivering what the mainstream are screaming out for. That goes for pretty much everything, housing's just the example.

Meanwhile the Liberals stand out the front doing a chicken dance while yelling expletives and waving a Bible they've never read anyway.

If the "No" vote prevails then it won't be because Australians hate Aboriginal people or even that they don't want to help them succeed. It'll be because the mainstream are fed up with politicians of all persuasions and their hangers on coming up with every distraction they can think of which enables them to continue ignoring the majority in the middle.

The thing about all that being, if government got on and looked after the mainstream, if they had a sound track record of doing that, then they'd have the credibility to get the Voice through easily. It's that they don't have credibility that has people so cautious.

 

[farmerge]

I won't deny for a moment that the Coalition has also run off the rails. They've turned into a party of anti-science wreckers that dishes out spite while preaching religion so I'm in no way defending them.

Labor is however in government federally and in every state except Tasmania so it's the party of relevance right now.

Using the housing example, the basic problem I see with Labor is this:

They have it right with saying there's a need for social housing. For those at the bottom of society in economic terms that's always likely to be needed and credit where it's due for recognising that.

But what about the other ~two thirds who aren't at the bottom and who also aren't elites of any description? That is the ordinary workers, small business owners, retirees with modest wealth and so on. What's Labor doing for them?

For the bulk of the population what they're looking for in a house is just that, a freestanding house on land. That's by far the largest part of the market and on that point I'm not going to mess about. To provide that requires broad scale land development. It requires subdivisions with roads, footpaths and utilities put in and done so on a mass scale.

Now the elites have a name for this, they call it "urban sprawl" and use that term in a derogatory manner and consider it bad to the point it must be stopped.

Therein lies the problem. Labor keeps trying to appease the elites rather than delivering what the mainstream are screaming out for. That goes for pretty much everything, housing's just the example.

Meanwhile the Liberals stand out the front doing a chicken dance while yelling expletives and waving a Bible they've never read anyway.

If the "No" vote prevails then it won't be because Australians hate Aboriginal people or even that they don't want to help them succeed. It'll be because the mainstream are fed up with politicians of all persuasions and their hangers on coming up with every distraction they can think of which enables them to continue ignoring the majority in the middle.

The thing about all that being, if government got on and looked after the mainstream, if they had a sound track record of doing that, then they'd have the credibility to get the Voice through easily. It's that they don't have credibility that has people so cautious.

@Smurf1976 This hits the nail right smack bang in the middle of the head. Is there a politican of any persusian who has credibity, even a tiny amount, worth mentioning.

 

[SirRumpole]

Even the new Govt, has realised the absolute FUp of the last 10 years and have told Unis, unless they can show that teacher graduates can teach the times table and basic english they will lose funding.
So I'm a bit disappointed your normal open mind, can't see the irony in your post.
Meanwhile the current Gov is trying to undo the mess that 10's of billions of extra funding that was poured into the education system in the last 10 years has still seen the slide continue.

Standards need to be increased across the board. As ever if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. If you want good teachers, lecturers, researchers and tutors you need to pay them good salaries otherwise they will go somewhere else.

I'm also a bit disappointed that you can't see the link between the gutting of the budgets of universities and TAFE colleges and the skills shortages that we now have.

So Labor are in now and if they don't fix the situation they will be as bad as the other lot.

 

[wayneL]

Vote harvesting eh?

 

[Sean K]

Keep digging Ray.