The Voice

[Sean K]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but when did delivering the Uluru Statement IN FULL become a Labor policy? Was it part of the last election campaign? The earliest I've heard of it was on election night when Albo had won and he said in his victory speech that he would implement it in full. Is there a record of this in Labor's policy platform prior to that? If it was, I can't really recall and wonder how something like this could become such a major problem for a first term government who entered this period with a pretty solid mandate on whatever they ran on.

 

[sptrawler]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but when did delivering the Uluru Statement IN FULL become a Labor policy? Was it part of the last election campaign? The earliest I've heard of it was on election night when Albo had won and he said in his victory speech that he would implement it in full. Is there a record of this in Labor's policy platform prior to that? If it was, I can't really recall and wonder how something like this could become such a major problem for a first term government who entered this period with a pretty solid mandate on whatever they ran on.

The problem is, they didn't have a pretty solid mandate, they won office with the lowest primary vote ever against a worn out on the nose Govt, that's why they are worried Albo will be putting a lock on the knife draw if this falls over badly.
Tanya, Penny and Billy will be watching in anticipation, especially if Albos popularity rating takes a hit.

 

[wayneL]

All of the things you have just said (and I agree with them all) are classical Socialist policies which neither of the main parties will adopt because they are just too lazy.

Shall we vote for the Greens in that case?

Even right-wing gummints can run social programs without being "socialist".

The problem is, they didn't have a pretty solid mandate, they won office with the lowest primary vote ever against a worn out on the nose Govt, that's why they are worried Albo will be putting a lock on the knife draw if this falls over badly.
Tanya, Penny and Billy will be watching in anticipation, especially if Albos popularity rating takes a hit.

My God! We should be rid of the miserable useless wretch after this, but out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

[farmerge]

Do you know why the government went to the RTO system? I'll tell you why because it's cheaper for everyone involved and they pump out useless tradies in no time. I worked as a trade teacher in one of these establishments and quit within 3 months. I was working 14hr + days on a paid salary for a 38hr week. The govt pays for the first two lessons 1hr each per individual module, if the kid doesn't get it within the first 2x 1hr lessons, it then comes out of the RTO expenses to get them through or you fail the student. These are modules that normally take a week and sometimes a week and a half of full time days to teach in Tafes. You usually end up with less than half an hour with each student. You have to see management to get on site, and then you have to find the student which could be anywhere, sometimes it takes you 20 minutes just to park the car because there's a small number of parks in city CBDs. The employer doesn't want to pull the student away from work, sometimes you have to wait for them to finish a job.

I had students who were illiterate and others with psychological disabilities and then had workplaces that signed kids up just to get govt grants. Most workplaces treated the training as secondary to work, not many in the workplace wanted to teach them anything because in many cases of car dealerships they're used as cheap labour, once they finish their trade they're shown the door, and they only retain something like 5% of the apprentices. These kids are virtually no good to anyone because all they've done is pump up tyres and change oil for 4 years of their apprenticeship, the lucky ones may get to do a gearbox replacement or two. The sad thing is apart from the few ratbags, most of these kids are really keen to learn something.

Even when I went to TAFE in Qld for fulltime 4-week release blocks, everything they taught bar basic engineering principles was outdated junk, I was working on electronic fuel injected cars in the workplace and TAFE was teaching carburetors. The students were literally teaching the teachers because they had been out of workshops for so long and barely knew anything about new tech in cars.

That's my rant over for today.

And a good one to boot. Good on you for having the balls to put it all in print.

 

[Smurf1976]

I will start a thread competency and maintaining standards

I was thinking this was all getting off topic, the subject is The Voice not trades training, but actually there's a very important point here I think.

Expertise, in any field, has been devalued and this has a lot to do with the problems we're now seeing across a wide range of areas.

I'd be a lot more inclined to vote for the Voice if I was confident it would be comprised of a panel of real experts who won't be dictated to. In practice if it goes ahead, well I'm expecting it'll end up being another avenue for employment of those who've spent their entire life in a big city and whose only credentials are purely theoretical.

A great deal of the problems we have today come down to the reality that those making the decisions lack even basic knowledge of the subject and aren't smart enough to hand it over to someone who does. That goes for all of these issues.

 

[SirRumpole]

Even right-wing gummints can run social programs without being "socialist".

Their hearts will never be in it.

Privatisation is their mantra and they will do what they can to achieve it unless there is strong public opposition.

 

[UMike]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but when did delivering the Uluru Statement IN FULL become a Labor policy? Was it part of the last election campaign? The earliest I've heard of it was on election night when Albo had won and he said in his victory speech that he would implement it in full. Is there a record of this in Labor's policy platform prior to that? If it was, I can't really recall and wonder how something like this could become such a major problem for a first term government who entered this period with a pretty solid mandate on whatever they ran on.

Thet did not campaign on it. Just Sprug it on us after the win.

They learnt from the Shorten experience to remain a small target.

 

[IFocus]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but when did delivering the Uluru Statement IN FULL become a Labor policy? Was it part of the last election campaign? The earliest I've heard of it was on election night when Albo had won and he said in his victory speech that he would implement it in full. Is there a record of this in Labor's policy platform prior to that? If it was, I can't really recall and wonder how something like this could become such a major problem for a first term government who entered this period with a pretty solid mandate on whatever they ran on.

The whole thing has been around for ages apparently Dutton and Co don't any detail.

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22library%2Fpartypol%2F8638543%22#:~:text=The%20Uluru%20Statement%20from%20the%20Heart%20was%20the%20ultimate%20act,the%20Uluru%20Statement%20in%20full.

Research

Research

www.aph.gov.au

 

[IFocus]

The problem is, they didn't have a pretty solid mandate, they won office with the lowest primary vote ever against a worn out on the nose Govt, that's why they are worried Albo will be putting a lock on the knife draw if this falls over badly.
Tanya, Penny and Billy will be watching in anticipation, especially if Albos popularity rating takes a hit.

No they had a mandate but failed to secure bipartisan agreement which really is the problem.

With Duttons weak leadership and no moderates or centrists in the Liberal Party plus the Nationals going No before even the release of the wording it's an easy political win for the conservatives.

Not sure what the damage will be to Albanese if any within the party but given how moderate he is cannot see a problem for the leadership short term.

 

[Sean K]

The whole thing has been around for ages apparently Dutton and Co don't any detail.

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22library%2Fpartypol%2F8638543%22#:~:text=The%20Uluru%20Statement%20from%20the%20Heart%20was%20the%20ultimate%20act,the%20Uluru%20Statement%20in%20full.

Research

Research

www.aph.gov.au

Thanks for the link. I just can't recall it being front and centre of Labor's election promises until the victory speech. I must have missed it during the debates etc.

 

[IFocus]

Thanks for the link. I just can't recall it being front and centre of Labor's election promises until the victory speech. I must have missed it during the debates etc.

Given it was developed under the Coalition I doubt they (Coalition) would have wanted to talk about it plus Labor ran a small target campaign after the Shoten lose.

 

[sptrawler]

No they had a mandate but failed to secure bipartisan agreement which really is the problem.

With Duttons weak leadership and no moderates or centrists in the Liberal Party plus the Nationals going No before even the release of the wording it's an easy political win for the conservatives.

Not sure what the damage will be to Albanese if any within the party but given how moderate he is cannot see a problem for the leadership short term.

Well the so called mandate, will soon be tested, wont it.
Labor hasn't got a problem, while Dutton is the opposition, he is unelectable, Albo will come under pressure when a viable opposition is present and that doesn't look like happening in the near future.

 

[SirRumpole]

Albo will come under pressure when a viable opposition is present and that doesn't look like happening in the near future.

He's under pressure from the Greens and Teals which will limit what he can do imo.

 

[sptrawler]

He's under pressure from the Greens and Teals which will limit what he can do imo.

He still has the media support, so as long as he keeps that I think he will be fine.
The Greens and Teals are running around in ever decreasing circles shouting look at me, I think there support will wane, people are starting to accept the message of climate change and realising there needs to be a balanced approach to addressing it.
So I personally think the Green/ Teal wave will dump.
Dutton doesn't seem to be able to build a cohesive narrative on anything, so the Libs are going no where.
Albo's the only option, but he really needs to change the narrative from the voice, to a planB which fixes the departments that are failing, saying if the voice fails there is no plan B everything stays the same, is basically saying they can't fix their own department that they are paying for.
Not a good look, to the public watching on.

 

[IFocus]

Well the so called mandate, will soon be tested, wont it.

Yeah doesn't mean he gets a free pass, can go pear shape really fast popularity wise.

 

[Smurf1976]

The whole thing has been around for ages

It has but I expect a great many people missed it. Of all things mentioned during the election campaign, the Voice was definitely "in the fine print" of policies, it sure wasn't the focus.

Of all objections I've heard to the Voice, probably half fit into the basic category of "not what I thought I voted for". They were expecting a focus on housing, skills, climate and so on and are disappointed (to put it mildly) that the Voice has dominated almost exclusively.

On the other hand I ponder whether Albo has actually pulled of a political masterstroke with the whole thing regardless of the outcome? Going all in on a "progressive" issue at the same time he's effectively buried climate change as a political subject and passed what little remains of it to the states. Given climate contributed to the demise of several previous PM's, and that he probably won't lose too many voters over the Voice given it's been put to a referendum, that would seem to be clever politics regardless of anyone's personal views on either subject.

 

[wayneL]

It has but I expect a great many people missed it. Of all things mentioned during the election campaign, the Voice was definitely "in the fine print" of policies, it sure wasn't the focus.

Of all objections I've heard to the Voice, probably half fit into the basic category of "not what I thought I voted for". They were expecting a focus on housing, skills, climate and so on and are disappointed (to put it mildly) that the Voice has dominated almost exclusively.

On the other hand I ponder whether Albo has actually pulled of a political masterstroke with the whole thing regardless of the outcome? Going all in on a "progressive" issue at the same time he's effectively buried climate change as a political subject and passed what little remains of it to the states. Given climate contributed to the demise of several previous PM's, and that he probably won't lose too many voters over the Voice given it's been put to a referendum, that would seem to be clever politics regardless of anyone's personal views on either subject.

Well Albo ain't that smart.

That's either a accident if circumstance, or there are evil masterminds behind the scenes.

Not sure which Occam's Razor applies to.

 

[sptrawler]

Yeah doesn't mean he gets a free pass, can go pear shape really fast popularity wise.

That is very true, once the media turns, it is game over, whether it is deserved or not.
The media is the stage and what they present becomes the narrative from constant reinforcement, your toast when the media decide you no longer fit the picture they're trying to paint and you never know when that is going to happen.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Well Albo ain't that smart.

That's either a accident if circumstance, or there are evil masterminds behind the scenes.

Not sure which Occam's Razor applies to.

I'm pretty sure many will see him as being a bit shady. I saw the speech he made recently and he's already trying to divert it back onto the indiginous by saying he's done exactly what they wanted and basically his hands were tied. When he said there was no plan B if they lost just showed what a disorganised govt they really are.

 

[IFocus]

That is very true, once the media turns, it is game over, whether it is deserved or not.
The media is the stage and what they present becomes the narrative from constant reinforcement, your toast when the media decide you no longer fit the picture they're trying to paint and you never know when that is going to happen.

For the Coalition maybe but for Labor the Murdoch empire is generally 100% negative to Labor from the get go.