Electric cars?

[mullokintyre]

Have you and your wife modified your list of requirements?

As I recall some of your requirements were
AWD.
300+ range,
service centre nearby and
price.

From the Polster site I can only see an option for FWD (Front Wheel Drive) at $83,000 for the long range. I'm guessing that the AWD would be close to six figures, when and if available for Australia.

Has the dealer given you different information to what is on the web site?

Pure progressive performance | Polestar

Brand new and ready to drive, a pre-configured Polestar car is designed to feel personal. Delivered in just a few weeks. Simply enter your preferred specifications

www.polestar.com

#5,556

There is nothing available, or on the Horizon that will fit all the criteria (at least not an EV).
The specs are a long range version (540km), single motor, no AWD, and is big enough to fit two kids seats in the back.
Its also a little higher off the ground than a lot of its competitors.
I have not even been able to test drive the Polestar.
There is no guarantee that I will have the order fulfilled, or that I will actually take delivery.

Mick

 

[qldfrog]

Interesting article i read this morning about EV vs ICE on the MG cost wise
With current (high ) price for petrol and based on city driving..most EV favorable, you break even against ICE in 16y..obviously not counting return on extra money for 16y or considering the state of your battery in 16y.
Do money wise with the EV, not there yet.
I would like to redo the computation based on free power: having retired, i could keep an EV loaded on free PV power at home around lunchtime.
If i find the article back , i will do the computation.

 

[qldfrog]

Interesting article i read this morning about EV vs ICE on the MG cost wise
With current (high ) price for petrol and based on city driving..most EV favorable, you break even against ICE in 16y..obviously not counting return on extra money for 16y or considering the state of your battery in 16y.
Do money wise with the EV, not there yet.
I would like to redo the computation based on free power: having retired, i could keep an EV loaded on free PV power at home around lunchtime.
If i find the article back , i will do the computation.

The link https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-ne...-off-2022-mg-zs-ev-vs-zs-petrol-running-costs

 

[qldfrog]

The link https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-ne...-off-2022-mg-zs-ev-vs-zs-petrol-running-costs

With free power, you get around 1900$ a year extra run cost for the ICE vs EV or 10y+ before recovering the extra EVcost.
So still not worthwhile $ wise even with petrol above $2 a litre

 

[3 hound]

Geez 16 years puts a damper on things. I was starting to warm to the idea until then.

Also a lot of people point out the rising fuel costs and act like electricity costs haven't risen dramatically in the last few years.

 

[sptrawler]

You have to remember guys, no one is making you buy an E.V, same as no one is making you buy a mobile phone or anything else it's called choice.lol

 

[3 hound]

You have to remember guys, no one is making you buy an E.V, same as no one is making you buy a mobile phone or anything else it's called choice.lol

Choices can be manipulated thru jacking up rego & fuel taxes until you no longer have a choice.

.

 

[JohnDe]

Geez 16 years puts a damper on things. I was starting to warm to the idea until then.

Also a lot of people point out the rising fuel costs and act like electricity costs haven't risen dramatically in the last few years.

You’re a little late to this one. Check out post #5577

After driving 1700+km through two states starting Friday morning and getting home Monday night, I just added up the cost and came up with $131.51 And I wasn't driving with economy in mind.

View attachment 139322

Evie charge

Energy Fee	0.40 AUD /kWh
Energy Distributed	53.379 kWh
Energy Cost	21.35 AUD

 

[JohnDe]

Choices can be manipulated thru jacking up rego & fuel taxes until you no longer have a choice.

.

A fuel tax was just dropped last week, it still cost me $100 to fill up my tank, while my partner charges the EV battery for half that.

 

[Iron Triangle]

u break even against ICE in 16y..obviously not counting return on extra money for 16y or considering the state of your battery in 16y.
Do money wise with the EV, not there yet.

So still not worthwhile $ wise even with petrol above $2 a litre

Not true. Telsa have a higher resale value compared to a petrol equivelent car. I base that on selling every 2-3 years. You save a lot more on maitenance costs with EV i.e no major services i.e oil , filters , timing belts , ect vs electric. You also save huge amount on buying petrol vs electricity for km covered plus discount regoes in some states. I think charging at some places is also free atm.

 

[sptrawler]

Choices can be manipulated thru jacking up rego & fuel taxes until you no longer have a choice.

.

Even thats a choice, you can dig in and fight it, but whether that changes the outcome is debatable, but I agree it will be forced on people.

 

[Smurf1976]

Well I will let @Smurf1976 explain it.
But I will say if it is cheaper and more efficient to run the renewables, why have the coal generators at all, I'm sure they don't want to operate them.

To avoid taking this thread off the EV subject I've posted a detailed comment with charts and actual real operational detail from today (Sunday) here:

The future of energy generation and storage

For reference, list of coal plant in the NEM (in order of age within states): Qld: Gladstone - 1680 MW owned primarily by a joint venture of Rio Tinto and NRG Energy and 10% by an assortment of other minor owners. Commissioned 1976. Tarong - 1400 MW owned by Stanwell Corporation. Commissioned...

www.aussiestockforums.com

In the context of charging an EV though, the short answer is that if you live in Vic or SA and you charged it during the roughly 8am - 2pm period today then the marginal source of generation, the one that ran versus not ran based on changing consumption, was indeed renewable.

That doesn't mean all fossil fuel plant was off, for reasons I've explained in that post, but if someone plugged in an EV and charged it then they added nothing to fuel combustion at all, they simply used some wind and solar that went to waste.

On the other hand, if they charged it later then depending on exactly what time that was the marginal source was some combination of coal, gas and hydro.

So the emissions which result from charging an EV is very much an "it depends" thing but broadly speaking if your aim is to reduce the quantity of fuel burned then charging at off-peak times beats charging at peak times. I've put the info in the other thread though since this one's about EV's not how to burn coal.

 

[Value Collector]

Geez 16 years puts a damper on things. I was starting to warm to the idea until then.

Also a lot of people point out the rising fuel costs and act like electricity costs haven't risen dramatically in the last few years.

I charge mine at home using my solar power, my cost of power I generate using my solar is about 2 cents per KWH locked in for the life of my solar system, with no increases ever.

So that means when I charge using my solar system it’s equal to buying petrol for about 3cents a litre, but hey I have some oil wells in my investment portfolio feel free to keep handing those $50’s and $100’s over at the petrol station, it will keep my dividends flowing and the tax coffers full.

 

[sptrawler]

I charge mine at home using my solar power, my cost of power I generate using my solar is about 2 cents per KWH locked in for the life of my solar system, with no increases ever.

So that means when I charge using my solar system it’s equal to buying petrol for about 3cents a litre, but hey I have some oil wells in my investment portfolio feel free to keep handing those $50’s and $100’s over at the petrol station, it will keep my dividends flowing and the tax coffers full.

The thing is, if someone wants to spend $100k on a very good diesel 4X4 that is fine and they will probably get a lot of enjoyment out of it. I'm sure you have a completely different lifestyle and holidays than they do, who gets the most enjoyment out of their choices, is very subjective.
There isn't a one size fits all with this IMO, your Tesla probably couldn't do the holidays an outback tourer wants to do and you probably don't want to do basic outback touring.
So common ground is difficult.

 

[Value Collector]

The thing is, if someone wants to spend $100k on a very good diesel 4X4 that is fine and they will probably get a lot of enjoyment out of it. I'm sure you have a completely different lifestyle and holidays than they do, who gets the most enjoyment out of their choices, is very subjective.
There isn't a one size fits all with this IMO, your Tesla probably couldn't do the holidays an outback tourer wants to do and you probably don't want to do basic outback touring.
So common ground is difficult.

Yep, and all that is fine, I was responding to him being worried about electricity price increases vs petrol price increase, as I said I actually have oil wells in my portfolio, so I don’t mind a bit if people choose to drive petrol or diesel cars.

But, I don’t think that is the situation of this 3 hound guy his opinion isn’t based on the facts, I think he just hates electric cars for political reasons or because he has read some bogus stuff about them, not because technology wouldn’t actually suit him.

So I was just pointing out that it’s fine for him to be a hater, it doesn’t actually change any of the facts, and it doesn’t hurt us, it only hurts himself if he wants go through life clinging to old tech.

 

[qldfrog]

Not true. Telsa have a higher resale value compared to a petrol equivelent car. I base that on selling every 2-3 years. You save a lot more on maitenance costs with EV i.e no major services i.e oil , filters , timing belts , ect vs electric. You also save huge amount on buying petrol vs electricity for km covered plus discount regoes in some states. I think charging at some places is also free atm.

Iron, not true?
I like arguments like that.....
What about you actually take a calculator? I actually..true ...did that.
So the 10y before breakeven is including cheaper service (130 dollar a year),and 0 dollar costs for charging and the most expensive fuel cost ever seen..hard to be more favorable to EV
As for money on resale, my 12y old 4wd ute doubles value in the last year, what about your Tesla?
I do not want to include that or inflation...
Buying an EV in 2022 still does not make sense economically for the average user
It is not a subject of "discussion", just facts.
After ,for taxis, specific trucks usage, or just for freedom, fun, religion or planned forced buy via regulations, sure.
EV remains the beemer of the green brigade.
Looking forward when this changes..but remember in 2022, millions still use iphones with cracked screens instead of 30 to 50% cheaper chinese android phones..so yes branding and look/statute is enough to build a market above facts

 

[qldfrog]

I am a fan of syn fuel at least, right now as transition while we get batteries which can be made for all needed ICE replacement
For the sake of objectivity:

E-fuels won’t save the internal combustion engine - International Council on Clean Transportation

E-fuels are a prohibitively expensive and remarkably inefficient way to decarbonize the transportation sector.

theicct.org

I find it very biased as it conveniently forgets the loss of storage of the initial power, then used to recharge EV..(minimum 20%) so basically only valid when you charge at midday or on nukes
Then conveniently forgets the waste of throwing away perfectly good ice with huge embedded energy to replace them by newly built atrociously expensive in embedded energy EVs.lithium mining...
Anyway need to be objective so

 

[rederob]

Polestar is getting popular.

Polestar 2 orders paused amid strong demand

You can no longer order a custom-built Polestar 2 electric sedan – though pre-built cars are available in the meantime, and factory orders are expected to re-open in a few weeks' time.

www.drive.com.au

"Due to high demand, we have sold out of current cars in Europe and Australia. As a result, we will close the Configurator for new configured orders in these markets for the time being. We are working to take in new configured car orders and enable the Configurator as soon as we can," a statement from Polestar Australia reads.
In the meantime, buyers in Australia can order one of the "pre-configured" cars already in stock. Polestar told Drive last month as many as 349 pre-configured cars would be available to buy – though as of publishing, the company's website only lists five vehicles available to order immediately.
The cessation of new orders in Australia comes as the Swedish-Chinese brand signs a deal with rental car giant Hertz, which will see it supply 65,000 Polestar 2 sedans over the next five years – with the first joining the Australian fleet in late 2022.

Polestar did not see this coming:

“But we’re a launch market here in Australia, and it’s really important that we do have volumes secured for our launch. We are working very hard with our production and logistics team to minimise any risks of supply being short of what we expect,” she said.​

“At this stage, we don’t see any supply issues. Everything is on track for the volumes we’re planning,” said Polestar Australia managing director, Samantha Johnson.​

​

Polestars are not particularly cheap, so it goes to show there is a segment of our car market that has no need for incentives. Instead, they are icing on a cake that you might be lucky enough to be offered a slice.

Speaking of incentives, the ACT has one which I reckon federal Labor could use given their so called blue collar base:

"In the ACT we've put those [incentive] mechanisms in place; that $15,000 interest free loan [via the sustainable household scheme] includes second-hand electric vehicles, as does the free rego for two years," the ACT Minister for Climate Change and Sustainability, Mr Rattenbury said.​

Instead Labor has these, the latter of which favours employers more than workers.

 

[3 hound]

Labor could use given their so called blue collar base:

Geez I haven't considered labour as a party for the working class since at least the 90's. The last election labour was almost decimated by the working class.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Polestar did not see this coming:

“But we’re a launch market here in Australia, and it’s really important that we do have volumes secured for our launch. We are working very hard with our production and logistics team to minimise any risks of supply being short of what we expect,” she said.​

“At this stage, we don’t see any supply issues. Everything is on track for the volumes we’re planning,” said Polestar Australia managing director, Samantha Johnson.​

​

Polestars are not particularly cheap, so it goes to show there is a segment of our car market that has no need for incentives. Instead, they are icing on a cake that you might be lucky enough to be offered a slice.

Speaking of incentives, the ACT has one which I reckon federal Labor could use given their so called blue collar base:

"In the ACT we've put those [incentive] mechanisms in place; that $15,000 interest free loan [via the sustainable household scheme] includes second-hand electric vehicles, as does the free rego for two years," the ACT Minister for Climate Change and Sustainability, Mr Rattenbury said.​

Instead Labor has these, the latter of which favours employers more than workers.

Thus far for people in regional and rural Australia EV's are unrealistic due to high mileage needs and lack of charging. The prices quoted are out of peoples reach.

Prius seems to be the best and cheapest way for anyone to go, a hybrid with low fuel needs and an engine which continually recharges the battery, the latter being used most of the time to run the motor.

gg