Resisting Climate Hysteria

[Logique]

It's called climate change... but whatever.
Your posted images will happen more regularly in future in the northern hemisphere due to changes in the polar jet stream, as linked previously.
All going as forecast so move along....

Except that it isn't, which is why the extravagant alarmist claims have been ramped up

 

[rederob]

Yes Logique, it used to be called global warming, when things cooled it was re titled to climate change, because the cold snaps came out of left field.

It was called climate change to begin and based on the known effects of CO2.
An earlier Youtube link to a Potholer54 video explained it in more detail.
The process leads to global warming.
The outcome is a theory where people cause an increase in GHGs over and above otherwise natural factors such that forcing effects increase the temperature of the planet = AGW theory.
Here's a link that shows everything wrong about those who deny the science.

 

[rederob]

Except that it isn't, which is why the extravagant alarmist claims have been ramped up

Do you realise that gibberish is irrelevant to science?

 

[kahuna1]

Yep ...

flat earth society rides again. Deny deny deny .,... its actually flat !!
better not watch this ....

You may learn something !!


Who is this Alan Joans ? Is he a denier ? Or some ex football player hit too many times ? Does he have a degree ? In anything ?

 

[basilio]

Another scientific explanation of the reality and causes of global warming.

 

[rederob]

Who is this Alan Joans ? Is he a denier ? Or some ex football player hit too many times ? Does he have a degree ? In anything ?

Queer questions?
Is he related to the incompetent Tony Jones who did the worst interview ever with an Australian Open champion last night?

 

[basilio]

Queer questions?
Is he related to the incompetent Tony Jones who did the worst interview ever with an Australian Open champion last night?

I suggest he meant Alan Jones the Sydney shock jock.
Does that ring any bells ? ( For Alan Jones it usually sounds like a complete Cathedral peal..)

 

[rederob]

I suggest he meant Alan Jones the Sydney shock jock.
Does that ring any bells ? ( For Alan Jones it usually sounds like a complete Cathedral peal..)

You mean he doesn't race cars anymore?

 

[Darc Knight]

Alan Belford Joans AO (born 13 April 1941, or possibly 1942 or 1943[1][2]) is an Australian radio broadcaster. He is a former coach of the Australia national rugby union team and rugby league coach and administrator. He has worked as a school teacher, a speech writer in the office of the Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser, and in musical theatre. He has a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Queensland, and completed a one-year teaching diploma at Worcester College, Oxford. He has received civil and industry awards.
Joans hosts a popular Sydney breakfast radio program, on radio station 2GB. Joans advocates mainly conservative views, and the popularity of his radio program has made him a highly paid and influential media personality in Australia. Despite his success, he remains a controversial figure.[3] His on-air conduct has received adverse findings from Australia's media regulators, and he has frequently been sued for defamation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Jones_(radio_broadcaster)

See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_for_comment_affair

 

[kahuna1]

Whoops ....

Toady Jones ? Is he off home and away.

I know people rarely read stuff, or even watch .... but some of the climate deniers backgrounds and lacl of scientific background on the topic, is stunning.


https://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2012/oct/12/nobel-prize-quackpottery-chemistry

The debunked idiot

https://www.desmogblog.com/ian-plimer

Making him look smart, difficult but here you go ...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/weather-or-not/

a weather person with a degree in JOURNALISM ....

Yep Jody JOANS .... or whatever that persons name is here, is a toad, and a stupid one !!!

 

[kahuna1]

Got the wrong Jones, sadly ....

TOM JONES at least is amusing. Surprise surprise surprise .... Malcolm Frasers writer and John Howards mate, another well known denier along with current PM and his deputy .... all know better than 50,000 scientists and 50 Nobel prize winners ... IN THE FIELD .... not some molecular biologist who assumes he knows shoot about climate change.

Jones along with all his rugby mates maybe should just stick to rugby.

 

[kahuna1]

Amusing ...
who the F is Jones ? IS he with the bolt report on Fox ?

Nothing like a champion who ... well listen to this ...


this nutter makes even the main deniers look sane. What a toossseeerrr ...

 

[Darc Knight]

On 6 December 1988, Joans was arrested in an underground public toilet on Broadwick Street in the Soho area of London. He was taken to the Mayfair police station and charged with 'outraging public decency' and 'committing an indecent act'. 'Joans friends rushed to his support, and when the case was heard in the Marlborough Street Magistrates' Court the next day The Crown withdrew the more serious charge, with Joans pleading not guilty to the lesser charge of committing an indecent act. The authorities ultimately did not present any evidence to support either charge, and the second charge was also later dropped, with Joans lawyers winning ₤70 in costs. Joans read a prepared statement when he first appeared back on his radio show on 16 January 1989, saying "I am and always was innocent of the charges levelled against me".[4][74] Joans has avoided talking about the incident ever since, although it is frequently raised by his opponents or those looking to highlight alleged hypocrisy in his comments.[10][25][75]

 

[kahuna1]

I knew he well was an opinionated dick,

Whist Gillard not my fav PM, he told her that her father died of shamed. Gillard refused to bite and even FOX came out and hung this turd where he should have been.

First Gillard ...


Next Fox ... not a bastion of anything decent, even they roasted this turd


Wow a new low .... lower than all other climate change deniers put together, a human who, well s barely human.

 

[Logique]

Damn you global warming! Greece will just boil away from this Greenhouse Effect

New Weather System To Bring Snow And Low Temperatures In Greece As Of Monday - 06 Jan 2019: https://hellenicdailynews.com/en/20...-and-low-temperatures-in-greece-as-of-monday/

 

[Darc Knight]

Damn you global warming! Greece will just boil away from this Greenhouse Effect

View attachment 91710

Yep, from Alan Joans to his colleague at 2GB Ray Hadley; Logique's post represents Ray Hadley 's reasoning for CC being a hoax. Everytime it'd rain or snow Hadley would point it out as more evidence of CC being a hoax.
The flimsy arguments, the fact it's a commercial network promoting the intetests of big business and Conservatives, the fact all the 2GB commentators sing from the same hymn book makes me suspicious of their remuneration.

 

[kahuna1]

Yep.

much like Dump, that guy in the USA. Climate change and global warming are two separate but connected things. Right now, as in the past, a main influence of CLIMATE and temperature in the USA is the massive jet streams above the USA at 10,000 plus feet. Right now, the polar Arctic Vortex has broken from spinning above the North pole and as it does, this time and ever more increasingly it goes into Canada and then Northern USA and they see wildly cold temps 20 degrees Fahrenheit below normal.

When USA was burning in California and record lows in the East v Record highs in the West and California, Trump or Dump said the same. Stupid when the gulf stream that operates over the USA most of the time was in full effect, sucking heat from one side and depositing it on the other in a massive vortex, Overall I suspect the 10 degrees higher one side of the nation and 10 colder the other were Net ZERO IF NOT POSITIVE,.

Whilst not pretending to be an expert I have read far and wide and approached this after listening and reading most of the debunkers views. They are very very convincing, if NOT examined at all. Of the deniers, NONE have any peer reviewed papers, NOT a single one. SOME have zero qualifications in the field, MOST even the NOBEL prize winners have zero qualifications in any field associated with the issue.

Funding as Dark Knight was the next thing I looked at after reading the scientific reviews of their theories and found MOST, not all, but most were funded by extreme right wing billionaires and some directly by fossil fuel oil barons and coal barons. Koch brothers have a lot to answer for ....

I suppose I have read and gone through 1,000 papers and scientific studies and various papers both sides of this discussion. Its NOT a debate. Yes CO2 once was 5 times what it was now. That was 65 million or so years ago. Not much lived in the sea. there were not 7 billion soon to be 10 billion humans needing 50 million sq km of land just to feed themselves and get 20% of the protein they require from the sea.

Yes there were vast lush forests, but the change from the previous period around 260 million years ago ... where CO2 was even higher, BUT VIRTUALLY NO LIFE as we know it existed then, 99% of all species went extinct v 90% the 65 million years ago, easily and comprehensibly verified by fossil records, is an aside. NO life would exist at these extremes or little.

What one knows for sure is the last time, the 65 million year ago time was a period of 200,000 years where CO2 spiked twice, and it took that period for the temps to rise 10 degrees so YES it was warmer than even the 2100 level I suspect we are heading towards of 4 degrees. I stress two things here .... Again the need for virtually all arable land 50 million sq KM of land to feed us out of a total of 134 million sq KM and impacts of CO2 whilst supposedly good, and they are for plants, beyond where we are the crop yields drop significantly as we add co2 and temperature to the mix. On the other side, by 2100 likely we are close to 150% of the current population .... 10 billion v 7 billion. Likely and obviously will be a period of crop fails and poorer nations starving in massive ways never seen before. Again, covered in virtually all scientific papers of late.

Second is RATE of change and ignoring impacts well known, but if your NOT in a room, as I have had the pleasure of being in, with a volcanologist, a geologist or groups of them, them experts in 20 other fields, from weather to ICE formation and then ocean temperature experts then Ocean acidification ones and adding a BEST case and then a worst case .... the RATE of change in CO2 seen 65 million years ago and RATE of change of Temperature which by the way post 1980 via satellite and measured by 20 different groups has an at best 2 degree by 2100 if radical change happens which the current Plan is NOTHING but reducing the increasing output ,,, so it assures 4 degrees by 2100 ...

as I said, it took 200,000 years for it to occur a change of 8 degrees 65 million years ago, well we have done it in less than 200. I wish it wasn't so. I wish I could ignore it. Whilst I do understand the money driving some of the deniers, the science is chilling. In total I suppose there are about 50 different scientific people and expert groups in the the whole climate change issue. I only get to sit there, being to blunt for most, when they have prepared some forecasting model and they need someone to tell them the are mad.

Sadly. whilst so many times in the past, stupid and silly predictions of rising sea level in 1970 that by 2000 would be 20 meters prevailed, idiotic even then, I suspect a setup ... in 2018, with a computer that's well 30,000 times more powerful than the ones from 1980, its doesn't take even that to see, with a bloody 1980 PC or your mobile phone, when say CH4 is 33% more than 1980 and CO2 is 25% MORE and the ocean is 25% MORE acidic remembering its a logarithmic scale, the future is NOT too hard to see.

Or then again, for some, for most, who cares. Massive sea rise will only occur when ANTARCTIC ide sheets melt totally and 3,000 meters of ice is added to the mix, not likely pre 2100. Assured mind you by 2200. A mere 180 years away. ASSURED, artic ice, NASA satellite has been watching with extreme precision since 1980, the North pole is likely to be ice free within 20 years in summer, and likely even winter by 2055-60. Scary since the end of the last event was the freezing and carbon capture of a lot of CO2, the ARTIC has a massive amount of captured organic material and Methane which if released in a short space, say 50-100 years totals all the fossil fuels released to date. Again, likely in the extreme no matter what we do.

Cambridge guys the leaders in this issue ARTIC ice and the Permafrost stuff, but to deny, its occurring, I suppose humanity will act, too late and it will take one of the almost assured crop fails of several years via climate change and droughts or extreme floods in a large population nation, or a few over the space of a few years, and we see, the world .... a mass starvation event with deaths likely 100 million if not a billion by 2100. By then, sadly as we spit out 35 billion tons of CO2 MORE than the earth can handle which is the other 25 billion that it can and does recycle naturally ... more and more changes will occur.

Yep, climate is always changing. But, well, if you like acid rain and 250 degrees as Stephen called for in around 400 years, go right ahead. To stop it, well, it will require all of humanity and a change that will NOT COST MUCH ... less than 2% of GDP if not 1% .... but stop fossil fuels and capture some CO2 and reverse some of the crap. Stephen now departed of course is Stephen Hawkins, whilst NOT a climate expert and I did NOT agree with a lot of his views on how we got there, I tend NOT to ignore people a lot lot smarter than me without a lot of research and I do so with the utmost respect and knowledge I am the dummy in the corner ina room full of very smart people.

Bottom line, is that GREEN energy and its economics, another reason they have me there .... IS CHEAPER than fossil fuel burning options. This equation is forever changing with issues behind most green forms of energy and lack of storage, a MIX of HYDRO and various other forms WORKS and has been working for some time in most EU nations. Sure some of its NUCLEAR and whilst not economical an more due to massive cost of new reactors and political stuff, this MIX and new cheaper battery storage is advancing in leaps and bounds along with some very good ocean types that perform 24/7 and some that can be used as backup for when say wind and other forms such as PV and solar thermal are not possible.

This sadly would require massive amounts of NEWLY available due to new drilling techniques ... again why they let me in the door ... via fracking and even fracking old oil fields and fields with low permeability the world reserves of oil post 2005 have in fact exploded. That is IF .... we chose to burn them. Massive very vested interests and stability of many economies depend on this ....

In the end, I get depressed like most on top of this issue. I doubt we stop global warming and CO2 growth pre 2050. As such by 2100 top end is an at best ... 4 degrees and any ability to do anything either costs too much or its in fact too late for the oceans and humanity as we know it.

I live in hope but even allowing for 50 fold increases from here in some of the CO2 technologies to capture and recycle, the window, without a massive reduction by 2050 is virtually closed EVEN allowing for some technologies to expand to 50 fold current efficiency. Of course maybe cold fusion is invented and we can via brute force remove CO2 using all the energy put into breaking it apart to take CH4 to CO2 and H2O or more complex ones. But hoping, or even wishing for it, is a fools game when faced with technical extinction v a maybe.

 

[basilio]

You sort of got the whole story together Kahuna. And it is very difficult to face the seemingly inevitable consequences of global warming. One really doesn't want to do that.

One of the ways of dealing with the issue is action. I remember George Monbiot was a very strong arguer about Global Warming until around 2008. At that stage he become a dad and I remember he made a decision to switch his focus to reservation and restoration of wilderness. He rightly argued that this was also a critical issue, helped address GW and was also far more personally nourishing. Didn't mean he ignored GW afterwards but his major focus changed to creating a community support for rewilding
https://www.monbiot.com/2015/12/17/walk-on-the-wild-side/

At the moment he is focused on supporting the Extinction Rebellion movement.

https://www.monbiot.com/
https://rebellion.earth/

 

[chiff]

I remember,a few years ago now,seeing Mombiot demolish Ian Plimer in debate re global warming.

 

[kahuna1]

Interesting.

Whilst any action, any is positive, the scale and scope is well beyond even his wildest nightmares. As someone who looks at models, economic and predictive ones, AI and trying to predict the future with any accuracy is possible via learning from history. Some and most of climate change is already well documented or very simple chemical reactions that occur the same way time and time and time again.

Here in 2018, or 2019, with some very large and comprehensive reports oiut late 2018, WHAT IS NOT contained in most projections, covered and not to be alarmist is quite stunning. Largest is that even via Kyoto and other measures, its NOT going to reduce CO2 but due to political pressure and economic one merely the RATE of increase. If one delves into the predictive models and some have been shocker from the past, the MODELS out of late 2018 without exception have MISSING or totally bullshoot .... inputs due to lack of actual data, so political powers forced them either to be removed TOTALLY or IGNORED due to true irrefutable empirical data.

Sure for a scientists, maybe doing so, leads NOT to stupid assumptions, but even this said the assumptions are chilling USING what are bogus inputs to start with, such as assuming ocean temperature HAS NOT risen due to CO2 when quite clearly this is NOT the case. Even this to one side, the NOISE .... the end date the 50,000 scientists arrived at was 400 years or so in the future. Stephen had 200 years .... ME about the same .... not that I matter. The question is WHEN is the tipping point, the point at which we can alter some of the impacts ? Or save humanity ? I suspect its already passed.

Sure, I suspect some will survive, but certainty not 10 billion needing every inch of 50 million sq km arable land to feed themselves. Not even 1 billion. One of the biggest missing things other than ocean acidification and temperature rise, when the bloody ocean provides over 50% of the Oxygen we breathe and soaks up around 70% of the heat and post 1999 ARGUS buoys sinking and rising to 2000 meter depths have quite clearly shown a stark rise in the ocean temp is the frozen Methane and plant matter MISSING .... BOTH MISSING totally from all current climate change models.

With 1.7-3 trillion estimated tons of CO2, frozen there, and it being in ARCTIC regions .... and a lot of it initially released as METHANE ... which frankly is a time bomb temperature wise, to have ANY and all impact REMOVED from climate models in light of ARTIC ice almost disappeared is absurd. Insane and as recent events post these reports show, its whether it takes 20 years or 200 years to release the stuff, in the end, irrelevant because its 100 times faster than ever before and age of this bio mass was deposited over 2,000 to 12,000 years and having it released in either 20 or 200 years makes the future security and food security of a planet now with 10 billion apes on it v NONE and how it was ok 65 million years ago an aside. Who is going to feed us the banana's ?

Sad, depressing and maybe ... maybe we get to zero or 25% CO2 by humans by 2050 and capturing it all by 2075 and soaking up some of this unavoidable mess we have created by 2100. Unlikely ... sadly but by then, sure only 4 degrees a lot of it in Arctic regions up by 8-10 degrees .... but the proverbial Humpty Dumpty egg has fallen and cant be put back together. We cannot reverse what has been done. Cannot change what is likely to occur, we can maybe mitigate it and slow it and eventually reverse some of it in 200 or so years, but its doubtful Humanity as a species can pull together in one way.

Happy happy happy ...