Depression

Hi Nelly, Re your above post..........It is interesting...........Funny thing about Doctors prescibing Drugs for all to use.........when we get reports like this, it indicates that even the Doctors are "shooting in the dark" a lot of the time..........Knowledge is everything (particularly in the share market!) All the best, Barney.

barney said:

Hi Nelly, Re your above post..........It is interesting...........Funny thing about Doctors prescibing Drugs for all to use.........when we get reports like this, it indicates that even the Doctors are "shooting in the dark" a lot of the time..........Knowledge is everything (particularly in the share market!) All the best, Barney.

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Wonder why they put candles in pumpkins?Symbolistic maybe.The movies link the image to fear (eyes and teeth).

Anyway most may not be interested but I know that setting and working toward goals changes the minds focus , sort of like a shift in consciousness away from the depressive/supressive situation.Something that I still find challenging to overcome is the self talk we all have.You know , those words that swirl around 24/7 in mind (the chatterbox).Taped and reinforced from conception.You know , the tapes (words,emotions,sensations,experiences)from our parents and citizens.

To quieten the chatterbox does require knowledge of it and meditation is a recommended practice to control it.Some people have a purring cat while others have a full decibel rock concert or the sad violin playing (to use anologies).To overcome depression I think people have to see and understand what has/is happening and then apply comfortable techniques.The practices come in many forms and the words I CAN will help.
NOW is the time to get out of that rut and give something lovely to a fellow hoomun.
P.S....criticism is welcome....and I don`t always practice what I preach... :alcohol:

Speaking of negative self-talk, I am in the process of challenging my own self talk.

I am using the stop thought techinque, then challening the thought and replacing it with a thought that is positive.

The more I practise these techniques the more positive my self-talk track will become and therefore the less depressed days I will have, and the less medication I will need to take.

I can honestly say that it is working already.

The mind is such a powerful thing, what was learned, needs to be unlearned!

Funny you should raise this STC. I have been helping a friend with depression and came across this site, moodgym.anu.edu.au, which helps analyse and re-correct negative thought patterns. Having had depression myself I can safely say it is right on the money.

Yes, the negative/positive self talk does work imo. It's a variation of the "learned optimism" philosophy that I described earlier.

Btw, nortryptilene (or versions of that drug) has been used to treat depression for more than 30 years.

Julia

Hi folks,

Don't normally get time to get involved in these general topics,
but this one is an exception ..... that's because it is a quality
thread and some of the info below may be of some help for
sufferers of deep depression.

Most people would agree, if stress and depression can be
overcome, without the need for ANY drugs, then we have a
better chance of living a normal and happy life.

Using the mind for self-healing has been around for
centuries, but the use of positive self-talk and other
techniques can now be complemented by another powerful
tool, in the form of guided imagery.

In counselling, some clients respond well to guided imagery,
when being treated for anxiety, grief, loss, stress, as well as
depression, such is the power of the mind and the best part
..... it's drug-free !!

Once learned, you have these simple skills for life and when
used frequently, they become second-nature and very fast in
their implementation, with some impressive results.

Of course, that's not good news to those who are addicted to their meds .....

For more info about Sandy Macgregor and his "Piece of Mind"
program, go to:

www.calm.com.au

..... highly recommended.

-----

Spiritual healing is also another drug-free avenue to explore
for some folk dealing with depression ..... but, that's a
discussion for another day !~!

happy days

yogi

Found a quote on http://www.wisdomquotes.com "The best remedy for those who are afraid, lonely or unhappy is to go outside, somewhere where they can be quiet, alone with the heavens, nature and God. Because only then does one feel that all is as it should be and that God wishes to see people happy, amidst the simple beauty of nature...."

If I tell you the author I think it will mean more....(Anne Frank)

2020hindsight said:

Found a quote on http://www.wisdomquotes.com "The best remedy for those who are afraid, lonely or unhappy is to go outside, somewhere where they can be quiet, alone with the heavens, nature and God. Because only then does one feel that all is as it should be and that God wishes to see people happy, amidst the simple beauty of nature...."

If I tell you the author I think it will mean more....(Anne Frank)

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I like that one too 20/20

My guess is that you have to trick your mind into being positive - like for instance fall in love - with Apollo maybe, that round ball of warmth that greets us every morning (unless you live in Melbourne that is lol - but then, so what, its still once a week ). Maybe make a contract to give something three times a day - paganism? probably, depends if the gift is easily achievable, and doesnt tread on the bishop's toes....and of course the giving is the greatest healer of all. Sorry - you guessed it, here comes another of those bloody poems.

THE SUNSHINE SALESMAN

Lady would you like to buy the soul of a sunrise,
Chirping from the treetops, yodelling its birth;
Melt in the mellow of its crystal fragrance -
Christened with a dewdrop - Guess how much it's worth.
Well....Normally they retail for about ten a penny,
Depending on the packaging and somewhat on the style,
But.. 'Sposing that you promise to embrace it just a moment,
It's yours...for the price of a wakening smile.

Lady can I tempt you with the nectar of a noontime
Listen to the honeybees, busy buzzing by..
"Bright gold sunshine lady, hug yourself an armful
Flowers at your ankles, Fire in the Sky"
Well.. Normally again it is really quite expensive,
Litres cost a Lire, and a gallon costs three,
But .. 'Sposing that you promise to look just once skyward,
and Tune in to the laughter.. then its all yours free.

Lady have you watched in the sobbing of a sunset
How Apollo staggers , how his blood spills,
Nestles in his grave in the far horizon
Bitter sweet death in the western hills.
Now.. Best price I can give you for the master's magic -
Last rites included - is a dime for two;
But.. 'Sposing on your face I see just one tear of gratitude -
My sale has been rewarded, and that tear will do.

I'm not gonna say you had to be there (again ) - because - we are all of us "there" every day of our lives - might help cheers

wayneL said:

I like that one

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Wayne - did you ever pick up a hint in her book that Anne Frank ever became depressed - personally I cant remember lol, but I dont think so - amazing isnt it if she didnt - of if she did she rose above it - and only 13 years old in 1942 when the family went into hiding.
By the way thanks for that website with all that wisdom and quotes and words and stuff
I see in Wikipedia that her diary (apart from being translated in most languages) also became an opera. heart wrenching stuff.
"Described as the work of a mature and insightful mind.. " well not bad for 13 anyway.

and the irony of her quote below.. "the best rememdy to being unhappy is to go outside" .....sheesh - as if she could do that

Hi everybody..lotsa good info on this thread huh.

Some of my 'self talk' goes something like this.....

When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
- Mark Twain

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
- Robert Heinlein

The game of life is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well.
- H.T. Leslie

I have one for most situations which cause me to negatively 'self talk' .
What really helps is reading the paper....there is always someone much worse off than I. And yes I do tell myself to get over it and get on with it and I actually listen to myself sometimes. If it doesn't work I keep a mild sedative handy [just in case I see a snake which I also keep handy] and get a good nights sleep and try again the next day.

[sorry for ramblin'].....have a good one

nelly said:

If it doesn't work I keep a mild sedative handy [just in case I see a snake which I also keep handy] and get a good nights sleep and try again the next day.

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Yes I see your point nelly, those trouser snakes are potent

I'm not sure how to take that Bobby.[chuckle]

Just thought I'd share a couple of these articles that might aid people suffering depression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16650900&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16331126&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum

Both omega 3 and exercise have been shown to aid in reducing symptoms of depression. The articles above are actually abstracts from clinical experiments so if your wary of information on the internet this is a reliable source. Hope these help.

Thought I'd contribute to the thread due to this being the time of the year that usually strikes me, as I have a cyclical depression, or perhaps even a mild form of cyclothymia (an atypical form of bi-polar) - which leads me to have periods of major depression and periods (albeit it much shorter unfortunately) of hypomania. So at these times I can read excessive amounts compared to normal; have extremely good recollection (on top of having a usually photographic memory anyway) and insomnia. But yes, I'm now at the start of my cycle that usually leads to 3-4 months of hell. And to top it off, I've had stuff to deal with this week that has set me back quite a way (separate from the market).

From between the ages of 18 and 21, I spent most of my time in and out of psych wards. Was very close to death on many occassions. Was nearly effectively braindead twice apparently. A side effect from medication also almost killed me, as a bout of tardive dyskinesia put my throat muscles into spasm and nearly crushed my wind pipe. I also had a temporary psychotic side effect from a drug called reboxetine, over powering 5 security guards during this. Apparently, it was "a miracle drug", but it just happens to randomly effect people's heart rates, randomly stimulate adrenaline production and crash and spike blood sugar levels. They are still prescribing it I believe...

Basically we had tried everything, and by the end of all this, I was totally unable to function in really any practical capacity. Although I managed to maintain good grades at UNI . I had tried 15-20 anti-depressants. They either had no effect or the side effects outweighed the benefits. I remember having a panic attack after just one beer when on escitalopram. When I asked my doctor about this, his response was, "Oh no, you can't drink when on these." But this was at a time when I was trying to socialise to shake it, which I needed to do. So as a total last resort, I was put on dexamphetamine. It worked. I could actually function at last! And that's all that people with serious mental illness want, to be able to function. And I resent the fact that a large part of my life was wasted by trying the same things again and again.

Geez... this is getting long winded, lol! Anyway, 6 months later with a new psychiatrist, I explained that I wanted to be able to socialise and drink moderately whilst being on an anti-depressant. He gave me one. I didn't know there was one; I was never told. So I came off the speed and have made continual progress while on the oldest of all anti-depressants, Prozac/ Lovan/ Fluoxetine (same thing). And throughout this time I've recognised that when I crash, or just before, I stop reading, and when I'm recovering, I begin again. So, personally that has been the biggest help to me to recognise, being that I need to continually read. Even sitting on the grass at uni is all the social interaction I need to get my brain on the straight and narrow at times.

Julia, I know you wanted opinions on various treatments. I think I can offer some opinions.

In terms of therapy styles, DBT is far more effective than CBT. Long term impacts of CBT are totally negligible. It's just a method to get people out of wards quicker. 90% of people 3 months later are no better off after CBT.

In terms of medications (in order of success rates), Effexor has the best success rate (but the majority of people can't tolerate it, I was allergic to it), followed by the very first AD, Prozac or more commonly Lovan. It's also non reactive so you can drink and have fun on it without a problem. Escitalopram from what I know is next, although you cannot drink on it because it can kill you, and Avanza. I wouldn't recommend this one because of the weight gains, which in my mind is more likely to increase depression. Ciprimal is also OK, but the Escitalopram is a better version of it. These are the only meds I know of that have success above the placebo rate.

Zoloft is commonly prescribed but I've never seen it help anyone. I used to describe it as having a "zoning out" effect, but someone here called it zombie like, which is apt.

Julia,
I'm not sure if you realise but prolonged levels of anxiety will destroy your thyroid... the doctor's diagnosis and the physical hormone levels in my mind support each other.

I'm also a big believer in physical therapies, both exercise and body work to overcome depression and mental illness. Certainly since I began having regular work done, my rounded and hunched shoulders have been largely corrected, which is how a depressed person presents. I'm not sure if you can rid the internal problems without also aiding in relief from the external presentation and vice versa.

In fact I've spoken to some people about the above point, and it led to me being told that in some european countries one of the standard treatments for schizophrenia is massage. Because they have massive problems in being able to draw their own bodies, and situate themselves in space/ or have a total lack of spatial awareness, it helps them to gain this control and to be able to centralise thoughts and feelings more readily.

And even in my own work, it's quite obvious to see that people hold emotional problems in their body. This is no more evident than in myofascial release sessions.

Cheers,
Chops

Top quality post Chops.

One particular item that stands out to me is being able to recognise the symptoms again when they present themselves. To me its like being a place that you didn't like...at all, and you'll never forget the experience.

Having suffered severe clinical depression in the past i can relate somewhat, however i do realise that your case seems more severe than anything i experienced for sure. Interesting too what you say about the physical side of it, as i was nearly cripled by the back pain associated.

I remember going through the yellow pages thinking, "I need help, quickly". I was drinking 6-8 beers every evening, no food...crying non stop from the moment i got home from work until i went to bed...tossing and turning with insomnia. But i only missed one day of work through this whole period. That day i just could not get out of bed...I think i cried all day. I lost over 12 kgs in 6 months.

Zoloft probably saved my life, that and the kind help of a great Physcologist that now lives in NZ, i'll never forget him. I didn't take him long to figure out what was wrong with me, i was a textbook case! Within 3 weeks of starting to take Zoloft the back pain stopped and i started feeling better.The zombie/dizziness lasted well after i stopped taking it though.

From time to time i still suffer a milder form of whatever came over me the first time, but its manageable for me now on my own. One things for sure, if it ever gets to the stage that i cannot manage it i'll know for sure, as i said you'll never forget the feeling once you've had it.

Thanks for your post Chops and i sincerly wish you good health.

Cheers,

My experience with depression is very unusual. In my teen and twneties and even to mid thirties, I suffered from serious depression, resulting in drinking etc. suicidal tendencies general hate of society people etc.I scrambled my way through some uni courses and basicially just watched about 20 years of my life evaporate. I was embarrased to seek treatment and basicially lost touch withg the few friends I had. To make things worse I gave up trying to have a serious relationship, and didn't even bother attempting dating.

On top of all this the loniliness was the worse thing. Absolute negativity in everything I did.

Then a few years back, I left the city and went north. Things changed immediately!! It must have been the weather or the dull grey drabbiness of the city because now I am surrounded in beautiful green hills, marvelous blue seas and beaches. and everything I seem to do is more posistive. I am so happy and while I regret those wasted years of my youth, I look back and see ait as an experience. My only hope is that I live to a ripe age and stay fit and healthy to enjoy whats left of my life.

I could never live in a big city again, and I attribute this to my depression.

I guess its a state of mind, and sometimes I wonder if the tablets the doctors readily give out for this condition are really the solution.

Anyway thats my input.

Hi all,

What an interesting thread - thought I might lay on the couch and share my experience if that is all right.

I suffered from depression about 5 years ago. I used to go to bed at night and could feel it well up. I hated nights. I never sought treatment.

One night, I was lying in bed early about 7.00pm on a daylight savings night. I thought, 'f&*k this! - I'm going for a run' ... I then started to exercise reguarly, and found that this helped immensely. I would run whenever the 'well up' came.

Then, after about 2 months, I just 'forgot' and I have never been depressed since. ... and I dont run anymore - I really should though!!! LOL

I am now pretty upbeat about life. I put my experience down to two things;

1. I think that exercise must have released some chemical into my brain that doctors would have probably released with a drug (?)

2. Now, I work teaching HSC kids, and at the end of each year, get the pleasure of seeing them go off into the big wide world. For all the hard things about school teaching and the HSC, that is surprisingly a very optimistic part of it.

I still get emails all the time from my kids asking about jobs advice, for references, telling me about marriages, babies, etc.

I guess for all my religious up bringing, and even current 'mega-church' attendance with all its prosperity crap (hey its fun!) - I hold onto the one thing I have never been told by a minister;

"LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT"

I should also say that I know that this is just MY experience, and would never presume that depression is something just 'to get over'. My experience was relatively easy compared to others on here, and I empathise greatly.

Oh well... think I might put the baby in a the pram and go for a run

Cheers
Brad

chops et al - here's how Shakespeare put it
(PS I just posted this on message thread )...
of course the more you study modern first-world-man, the more you are entitled to be depressed - but let's not go there
do what BradK does / did - headphones , treadmill, bit of sweat - sweat once a day like the Sparticans

They say salt water is the cure for everything - tears, sweat, or the sea

Hamlet: II, ii
HAMLET: I have of late--but
wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, forgone all
custom of exercises; and indeed it goes so heavily
with my disposition that this goodly frame, the
earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most
excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave
o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted
with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to
me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.

What a piece of work is a man! how noble in reason!
how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how
express and admirable! in action how like an angel!
in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the
world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me,
what is this quintessence of dust?

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"lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercises; "
see !! - even Shakespeare realised you had to exercise

PS I also empathise greatly - my mum had a bout of serious depression for a few years there. - old history now though.