Why Religion?

[darkside]

results of a quick google search on what I am talking about

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/belief-and-the-brains--god-spot-1641022.html

In my experience epilepsy isn't associated with being highly religious, although it is very common amongst people with schizophrenia

See that person spazzing on the church floor babbling incoherently? That's how infinite wisdom reveals itself

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
The Babble, I mean "bible" is a book written by men to control other men, and it has condoned slavery, genocide, murder, adultery, child bashing, etc., all in the name of "god". If the Babble, er "bible" was portrayed as written on television, it would be x-rated, and would have to be shown on special Foxtel Late at night with truck loads of warnings,

 

[weird]

See that person spazzing on the church floor babbling incoherently? That's how infinite wisdom reveals itself

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
The Babble, I mean "bible" is a book written by men to control other men, and it has condoned slavery, genocide, murder, adultery, child bashing, etc., all in the name of "god". If the Babble, er "bible" was portrayed as written on television, it would be x-rated, and would have to be shown on special Foxtel Late at night with truck loads of warnings,

I assume you are referring to the old testament, which described what it was like in those times ? However we still have slavery, killings, stoning ... lets not forget children soldiers, arm lopping or other cruel barbaric acts that occur on a multitude and regular basis in this actual world right now ... living in Australia is good no ? Alot of areas in the world is x-rated, and it is happening right now.

 

[darkside]

The "old Testament" did not only describe the attrocitys of that time but encouraged and condoned it , and as far as an X rated society is concerned the worst nations on earth for that are the ones that adhere to organised religion.
You do NOT need a Holy Bible to tell you to give charity to the poor and sick, but you DO need the Holy Bible to tell you to persecute the Jews, burn alive witches, pagans and heretics, condone slavery, justify hostility to women and obey authoritarian dictatorships

 

[weird]

Sorry mate, but that is complete B/S, while the O/T told many 'stories' which were passed down, finally the 10 commandments was created, tell me which of any of those 10, encourage any act except respect towards God and others ?

Also what other mainstream law or authority (which united people) was competing during that time, which had fundamentally better principles and why did it not survive to be the current rules that most people live by ?

 

[jonojpsg]

Actually there is next to no evidence that Jesus existed except for the work of fiction called the Bible.

The Bible is actually the most correlated and historically verified work of writing from ancient times.

You only have to read the Bible to know that a lot of its story lines have been lifted from previous so-called saviours of history that came before the fictional Jesus.

Which saviours are those from before Jesus?

I have no problem with believing in God, it just depends how you define what God is. If you are a literate adult with an IQ over 90 and you believe God is some bearded dude who created the world in 7 days 6000 years ago and knows everything we do every minute of the day then you are beyond help.

God is spirit and would have no problem creating the world/universe in any period of time you want to specify.

The only choice is to replace it because it is outdated and irrelevant.

How can something that is eternal be outdated? And it is certainly not irrelevant to want to make our lives, ourselves, better.

You know that God made you, how is that? Have you had a chat with him?

Yep, every day

PS This is why we have religion kennas - it's great fun to argue about

 

[darkside]

Sorry mate, but that is complete B/S, while the O/T told many 'stories' which were passed down, finally the 10 commandments was created, tell me which of any of those 10, encourage any act except respect towards God and others ?

Also what other mainstream law or authority (which united people) was competing during that time, which had fundamentally better principles and why did it not survive to be the current rules that most people live by ?

Only about 10% of the Swedes believe in a deity - that it is basically an atheistic society. But this society is not amoral and they don’t, for example, have nearly the crime rate of the US, where perhaps 80-90 believe in some superpower/God based religion.

The Question "Why Religion", Ithink this sums it up.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25525963-401,00.html


Now if every decent person on this site does not find that story abhorent and offensive, then what a sick society we have become, and you are so right. !!!

 

[MS+Tradesim]

The "old Testament" did not only describe the attrocitys of that time but encouraged and condoned it , and as far as an X rated society is concerned the worst nations on earth for that are the ones that adhere to organised religion.

Despite my better judgement in doing so here, the above quote is a perfect example of why I don't bother talking about religion on forums anymore. The most patently false claims are presented as dogmatic fact and supposed to constitute an objection to religion?!

For example, it is documented that the most destructive nations on earth were/are secular and often anti-religion as a matter of policy.

You do NOT need a Holy Bible to tell you to give charity to the poor and sick, but you DO need the Holy Bible to tell you to persecute the Jews, burn alive witches, pagans and heretics, condone slavery, justify hostility to women and obey authoritarian dictatorships

...and more of the same.

It's true that you don't need a sacred text to advise on certain morals, but these 'morals' that are taken for granted by you and other modern westerns owe a huge debt to the historic Christian tradition. These morals which you applaud have not always been practiced by every society and were flatly rejected by many for much of history where 'survival of the fittest' really did reign. You possibly believe yourself to be standing in an objective observer position but if so, then incorrectly. It's highly doubtful that if you were an average adult in Domitian's Rome or Hitler's Germany or feudal Japan that you would have applauded any of these morals which you now assume should be the norm.

 

[darkside]

The Bible is actually the most correlated and historically verified work of writing from ancient times.

Which saviours are those from before Jesus?

Umm, lets see. Before Jesus, there were other crucified saviors:

CRUCIFIXION OF CHRISHNA OF INDIA, 1200 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF THE HINDU SAKIA, 600 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF WITTOBA OF THE TELINGONESIC, 552 B.C.
IAO OF NEPAUL CRUCIFIED, 622 B.C.
HESUS OF THE CELTIC DRUIDS CRUCIFIED, 834 B.C.
QUEXALCOTE OF MEXICO CRUCIFIED, 587 B.C.
QUIRINUS OF ROME CRUCIFIED, 506 B.C.
(AESCHYLUS) PROMETHEUS CRUCIFIED, 547 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF THULIS OF EGYPT, 1700 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF INDRA OF TIBET, 725 B.C.
ALCESTOS OF EURIPIDES CRUCIFIED, 600 B.C.
ATYS OF PHRYGIA CRUCIFIED, 1170 B.C.
BALI OF ORISSA CRUCIFIED, 725 B.C.
MITHRA OF PERSIA CRUCIFIED, 600 B.C.

Do you see a pattern there????
Most of the above also have the same "history" that Jesus had: virgin mommies, dying and coming back to life, raising the dead, healing people, etc. So there. Now must we all worship the crucified saviors listed above? You could, but you'd be a fool to do so.

 

[weird]

Umm, lets see. Before Jesus, there were other crucified saviors:

CRUCIFIXION OF CHRISHNA OF INDIA, 1200 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF THE HINDU SAKIA, 600 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF WITTOBA OF THE TELINGONESIC, 552 B.C.
IAO OF NEPAUL CRUCIFIED, 622 B.C.
HESUS OF THE CELTIC DRUIDS CRUCIFIED, 834 B.C.
QUEXALCOTE OF MEXICO CRUCIFIED, 587 B.C.
QUIRINUS OF ROME CRUCIFIED, 506 B.C.
(AESCHYLUS) PROMETHEUS CRUCIFIED, 547 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF THULIS OF EGYPT, 1700 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF INDRA OF TIBET, 725 B.C.
ALCESTOS OF EURIPIDES CRUCIFIED, 600 B.C.
ATYS OF PHRYGIA CRUCIFIED, 1170 B.C.
BALI OF ORISSA CRUCIFIED, 725 B.C.
MITHRA OF PERSIA CRUCIFIED, 600 B.C.

Do you see a pattern there????
Most of the above also have the same "history" that Jesus had: virgin mommies, dying and coming back to life, raising the dead, healing people, etc. So there. Now must we all worship the crucified saviors listed above? You could, but you'd be a fool to do so.

Not sure why you had to go so far back in history, there were many competing Messiah's during Jesus time, yet for some reason this one hit a cord.

 

[darkside]

Not sure why you had to go so far back in history, there were many competing Messiah's during Jesus time, yet for some reason this one hit a cord.

Ahh, to show that it was'nt just christianity that had a strangle hold on self appointed "mesiahs" and it was documented way back in history. Christianty just jumped on the "bandwagon", really the immitator as opposed to the innovator one could say.

"In case of rapture... Can I have your car?"

 

[weird]

Ahh, to show that it was'nt just christianity that had a strangle hold on self appointed "mesiahs" and it was documented way back in history. Christianty just jumped on the "bandwagon", really the immitator as opposed to the innovator one could say.

"In case of rapture... Can I have your car?"

Lost me mate. Anyhow peace be with you.

 

[ColB]

Originally posted by Weird:

I'm a practicing Catholic, why religion ? ... for anyone practicing any religion you will get many answers, one for myself that comes to mind is that it centers me, and also helps me see the best in humanity and appreciate nature, and also understand my flaws, and try to better myself.

I'm not a practicing Catholic or any other religion for that matter. I have empathy for those less fortunate than some. I am inspired by the successful. I am inspired by those not as successful but have a go nevertheless. I have strengths and weaknesses and also appreciate many things in life.

I don't need religion to guide me because I can find my own way. If I was weak minded maybe I'd need that guide, but not now.

Originally posted by Weird:

Also what other mainstream law or authority (which united people) was competing during that time, which had fundamentally better principles and why did it not survive to be the current rules that most people live by?

The rules that most people live by are not from the bible. They are rules of legislation. Okay, so the ten commandments say thou shall not steal. Since when did we need a book to tell us we shouldn't take something that belongs to someone else.

Thou shall not commit adultery - at least not with one of Muhammed's seven wives.

 

[dhukka]

I've seen these many times. Most of them derive from the discredited views of Kersey Graves. What modern, reliable scholarly source confirms them?

How about Gerald Massey or Joseph Campbell?

For the record, I am not interested in arguing about it. I'd rather you apply the same skepticism to "sources" of skeptical objections as you do to the claims of Christianity, or any religion. It's my experience that while followers of religions often (and rightly) get questioned or poo-pooed on their claims, the same level of critical inquiry is not applied to the objections and counter-claims against a religion. The path of least resistance applies. Where a person believes they have found support for their view, they will not apply as critical a level of questioning to that source.

Since the Bible makes such absurd claims, the onus is on the believers to prove their case which they have consistently failed to do.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

results of a quick google search on what I am talking about

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/belief-and-the-brains--god-spot-1641022.html

In my experience epilepsy isn't associated with being highly religious, although it is very common amongst people with schizophrenia

You are wrong mate, I lost $100 bet with a trickcyclist mate of mine when I espoused this.

There is no association between epilepsy and schizophrenia. None.

It cost me $100 to learn that, now if you insist I'll put $200 on it that you are wrong.

There is an association between epilepsy and religious experience.

Anyone who has watched "The Reverend" in "Deadwood" knows that !!

gg

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Ahh, to show that it was'nt just christianity that had a strangle hold on self appointed "mesiahs" and it was documented way back in history. Christianty just jumped on the "bandwagon", really the immitator as opposed to the innovator one could say.

Did you know your list was compiled by Kersey Graves? Did you know he lifted data from others without verifying his source? Did you know he manipulated data to fit his conclusions? Did you know he outright fabricated data?

 

[darkside]

Lost me mate. Anyhow peace be with you.

Sorry , shouldn't have lost you , was only trying to answer Jonojpsg question, and set the record straight. Peace be with you as well, and remember :Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god ,,,,The wise says it to the world.

 

[MS+Tradesim]

How about Gerald Massey or Joseph Campbell?

Book? Chapter? Journal?

I remember Gerald Massey. His work is not considered reputable by modern Egyptologists. And Joseph Campbell...are you referring to the modern writer on myth?

Since the Bible makes such absurd claims, the onus is on the believers to prove their case which they have consistently failed to do.

This is a broad unanswerable statement.

 

[Struzball]

How can something that is eternal be outdated? And it is certainly not irrelevant to want to make our lives, ourselves, better.

You just proved your own point. Something eteranal can not be outdated, and the bible has been outdated therefore the bible and christiantiy is not eteranal nor real.

This thread gives me a heavy heart to think of the closed mindedness in the world.

 

[dhukka]

The Bible is actually the most correlated and historically verified work of writing from ancient times.

Ahh yes and your references are?

Which saviours are those from before Jesus?

Here's a few to get you started:

Horus - Egypt 3000 B.C.
Attis - Greece 1200 B.C.
Mithra - Persia 1200 B.C.
Krishna - India 900 B.C.
Dionysus - Greece 500 B.C.

God is spirit and would have no problem creating the world/universe in any period of time you want to specify.



How can something that is eternal be outdated? And it is certainly not irrelevant to want to make our lives, ourselves, better.

This is the kind of nonsense that separates religious zealots from regular rational people.

 

[weird]

Good questions.

Yet these rules or commonsense things are broken all the time.

Animal drive for the survival of oneself to procreate or perhaps the survival for the entire community, why is any variation of this broken ?

Some broken circuity with the structured but genetic soup which will self-correct ?

Random or drug influenced deviation of basic nature ?

Perhaps those not bound by religion, feel perhaps some comfort that others are, due to their predictable behaviour.

Because their own belief's outside of religion means that they are driven by chaos and unstructured self-discovery, with no need of remorse. And how do they try to apply their own belief on others, when their own is based on their limited exposure to things, and why do they try to judge others ?