Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

basilio said:

I was wondering...
There has been a slew of very challenging stories for Donald Trump in the last 24 hours.

So how would the Trump media supporters respond in terms of refuting/ challenging/ topic changing the issues that have been raised ?

1) That Trump knew about the dangers of COVID from January 28th but decided to ignore and downplay the risks and effectively undermined the CDC efforts to control the spread of the disease?
2) That Donald was basically smitten with Kim Jung In and lost all control of political processes with North Korea ?
3) That The Don managed to tell everyone US had a new top secret "super duper" weapons system?
4) That the Office of Homeland security ordered intelligence to be rewritten to suit the direction the administration ?
5) That Donald Trump spoke of US soldiers who died or were taken prisoner during wars as "losers" and "suckers" while he was supposed to be commemorating their sacrifice .

The answer of course is that it is impossible to defend or rationalise any of these actions. So the response is the MoXjo summary

Obama failed so hard that Russia and China pulled ahead. Bush and Obama caused wars and untold deaths and were constantly disregarding other countries rights. Bush, Obama, and Clinton setup and mishandled the gfc with more lies and lost money.
Where do you stop with any past President, let alone world leader. Their failures would be to long to list. MoXjo

Just throw out a total fabrication of previous/other leaders history and somehow say that these lies excuse the fact that we cannot with a straight face address the stupidity, the arrogance and the dangers posed by Donald Trump.

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moXJO said:

You put a lot of stories up backed with little evidence or half truths. Once one gets dismissed you go to smoke and move on to the next one. I linked the names of people in the room with Trump who dismissed the accusations. People who hated Trump. And you still put it up. That says it all.

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basilio said:

Not true, never was , never will be.

Why are there a thousand stories about Trump ? Because every day something new, true and horrible breaks the news.

Yes it is hard to keep hold of every, single, stupid, criminal, venal act Donald Trump undertakes. Frankly in any other political environment one, two or at the most three of these actions would result in such a public and press outcry that the President would be forced out of office.

But this new political reality environment he has created is magic isn't it ? Character is meaningless. Just deny, just lie, just DO IT. Sack anyone who disagrees with you. Destroy the credibility of anyone you don't directly employ by calling them Enemies Of The People.

But back to the pro Trump spruikers response to these issues.

1) That Trump knew about the dangers of COVID from January 28th but decided to ignore and downplay the risks and effectively undermined the CDC efforts to control the spread of the disease?
2) That Donald was basically smitten with Kim Jung In and lost all control of political processes with North Korea ?
3) That The Don managed to tell everyone US had a new top secret "super duper" weapons system?
4) That the Office of Homeland security ordered intelligence to be rewritten to suit the direction the administration ?

And by the way. Don't imagine the flood of stories around Trumps incompetence and behaviour will slow down. Big names are just biding their time.
t has happened. What response does the pro trump media have to these scandels ?

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moXJO said:

First off put up your evidence of each event.

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basilio said:

Lets start with one. The way in which Trump carried out foreign policy with North Korea, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey.
The sources come from hundreds of hours on interviews by Bob Woodward with White House staff and Trump himself..
I've attached a condensed version. It's clearly more than just a headline but i posted the concluding comments.

Woodward tells how allies tried to rein in 'childish' Trump's foreign policy
On the golf course, Lindsey Graham urged restraint on Iran, while James Mattis slept in his clothes in case of emergency, book says


...The president also expressed pride in his relationship with Turkey’s leader, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who in October 2019 persuaded Trump to announce a troop withdrawal from north-eastern Syria, abandoning America’s Kurdish allies, who had taken the lead in the fight against Isis.

The decision was the last straw for an outraged Mattis.

“When I was basically directed to do something that I thought went beyond stupid to felony stupid, strategically jeopardizing our place in the world, and everything else. That’s when I quit,” the former defence secretary said.

Mattis predicted Trump’s impact on the country would be lasting.

“This degradation of the American experiment is real. This is tangible. Truth is no longer governing the White House statements,” he said.

Coats, the former intelligence director, fired in July 2019 while he was playing golf on one of Trump’s courses, came to a similar conclusion.

“To him, a lie is not a lie. It’s just what he thinks,” Coats said. “He doesn’t know the difference between the truth and a lie.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/10/donald-trump-bob-woodward-iran-qassem-suleimani-golf

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Does the Trump administration have a grand strategy for the Middle East? Conventional wisdom has long held that the answer is "no." Detractors have blasted the president's penchant for disengagement from places like Syria and Afghanistan as proof that the White House doesn't have a clear plan for managing the Middle East, and is in fact actively eyeing the regional exits. Over the last week, however, the administration has proved its critics wrong.

On August 13, President Donald Trump announced that he had succeeded in brokering a peace deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates. Under the new agreement, the first of its kind since the 1994 Jordan-Israel peace treaty, the two countries have committed to fully normalizing diplomatic relations in exchange for an Israeli freeze on plans to apply Israeli sovereignty to parts of the West Bank and the Jordan Valley.

The deal is unquestionably historic. It represents an unalloyed triumph for Israel, which has worked assiduously over the past decade to cultivate deeper political and economic contacts with the Arab states of the Persian Gulf. A decade on, this diplomacy—originally launched on the basis of shared worries over a nearly-nuclear Iran—has become a thriving web of bilateral contacts on everything from trade to scientific collaboration. The aggregate result has strengthened security and prosperity on all sides, with the effect of drawing Jerusalem and Arab capitals much closer together. Last week's announcement was simply a public recognition of this reality.

But the agreement is also a resounding victory for the Trump administration, which has now made serious progress in its vision for the region.

The first part of that vision is focused on Iran. Since President Trump's May 2018 decision to withdraw the U.S. from the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran, his administration has embarked upon a broad campaign of "maximum" political and economic pressure against the Islamic Republic. The objective of that approach is by now abundantly clear: not to change Iran's regime, but to curb its international menace and force it back to the international negotiating table. It has also been broadly successful, dramatically reversing the Iranian regime's economic fortunes and generating renewed internal dissent against clerical rule.

The second prong centers on the administration's so-called "deal of the century" for Israeli-Palestinian peace. Unveiled publicly back in January, the plan is a detailed proposal that, among other things, offers the Palestinian leadership tremendous economic opportunities (some $50 billion in prospective U.S. investment) in exchange for a normalization of ties with Israel. Although the Palestinian leadership has thus far rejected the White House's offer, it has been effectively endorsed by a bevy of Arab nations (including the UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Egypt, Morocco and Qatar), as well as by Israel itself, thereby further setting the stage for the current unfolding detente.

Connecting these two poles is what is arguably the Trump administration's most important (but least well-known) regional initiative: the Middle East Strategic Alliance. Since 2017, administration officials have been working quietly with their counterparts in places like Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the UAE and Jordan to build a regional security grouping aimed at "confront[ing] extremism, terrorism, [and] achieving peace, stability and development" in the region. Popularized as an "Arab NATO" against Iran and the Islamic State, the bloc is actually intended to be much more. As administration officials have intimated, the objective is to eventually incorporate countries like Morocco and Israel into the evolving political, economic and military architecture. Last week's peace deal marks a significant step toward that objective.

If the administration has its way, however, it will be just the beginning. "Now that the ice has been broken, I expect more Arab and Muslim countries will follow the United Arab Emirates' lead," President Trump noted upon announcing the August 13 accord.

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basilio said:

It has been pointed out that the US has NOT had the most deaths per million from COVID. It is fact 11th in the world on that metric.
That perhaps we should be paying more attention and challenging how these other other countries have such an appalling death rate .

So should we examine the Turks and Caicos island, Aruba , Guam, Moldova, Panama, Peru, Kosovo, Brazil, Chile, Argentina , Mexico.?

Just out of interest I wonder where China which closed down its entire economy for weeks with quite harsh authoritarian measures sits on this metric of deaths per million ?
(very, very very small)

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Knobby22 said:

Trumps foreign policy has been good for the world and why is counter intuitive.

Firstly he stated and acted on not getting into wars (unlike the Bushes), especially endless wars as they are a waste of money. He has kept his promise and not got into any. Result: the world is realising the USA is not going to get involved and take sides

Secondly, he is slowly getting out of Europe and the Middle East, also to save money and because oil is less critical. Result: the countries need to normalise relations because they are on their own.

Thirdly, he has shown the USA cannot be trusted The Kurds in particular learnt the hard way, but the UAE, the Ukrainians etc. also realised it. The Saudis are waking up.

Result - Peace because the days of the white knight riding in to save the day are gone.

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Knobby22 said:

Thirdly, he has shown the USA cannot be trusted The Kurds in particular learnt the hard way, but the UAE, the Ukrainians etc. also realised it. The Saudis are waking up.

Result - Peace because the days of the white knight riding in to save the day are gone.

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moXJO said:

Now what's the next stupid argument you are putting forward?

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Knobby22 said:

Trumps foreign policy has been good for the world and why is counter intuitive.

Firstly he stated and acted on not getting into wars (unlike the Bushes), especially endless wars as they are a waste of money. He has kept his promise and not got into any. Result: the world is realising the USA is not going to get involved and take sides

Secondly, he is slowly getting out of Europe and the Middle East, also to save money and because oil is less critical. Result: the countries need to normalise relations because they are on their own.

Thirdly, he has shown the USA cannot be trusted The Kurds in particular learnt the hard way, but the UAE, the Ukrainians etc. also realised it. The Saudis are waking up.

Result - Peace because the days of the white knight riding in to save the day are gone.

Click to expand...