Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

[basilio]

I was wondering...
There has been a slew of very challenging stories for Donald Trump in the last 24 hours.

So how would the Trump media supporters respond in terms of refuting/ challenging/ topic changing the issues that have been raised ?

1) That Trump knew about the dangers of COVID from January 28th but decided to ignore and downplay the risks and effectively undermined the CDC efforts to control the spread of the disease?
2) That Donald was basically smitten with Kim Jung In and lost all control of political processes with North Korea ?
3) That The Don managed to tell everyone US had a new top secret "super duper" weapons system?
4) That the Office of Homeland security ordered intelligence to be rewritten to suit the direction the administration ?
5) That Donald Trump spoke of US soldiers who died or were taken prisoner during wars as "losers" and "suckers" while he was supposed to be commemorating their sacrifice .

The answer of course is that it is impossible to defend or rationalise any of these actions. So the response is the MoXjo summary

Obama failed so hard that Russia and China pulled ahead. Bush and Obama caused wars and untold deaths and were constantly disregarding other countries rights. Bush, Obama, and Clinton setup and mishandled the gfc with more lies and lost money.
Where do you stop with any past President, let alone world leader. Their failures would be to long to list. MoXjo

Just throw out a total fabrication of previous/other leaders history and somehow say that these lies excuse the fact that we cannot with a straight face address the stupidity, the arrogance and the dangers posed by Donald Trump.

 

[basilio]

The Inuit have hundreds of different words for "Snow" . How many different ways can we define "Stupidity" as demonstrated by Donald Trump ?

Trump told a reporter his biggest secret: that he is a danger to the American people
Richard Wolffe
Trump is a particularly stupid man who thinks he is very smart. Perhaps this lies at the root of his monumentally dumb decision to grant Bob Woodward 18 interviews

‘Our very stupid genius vomited up all manner of secrets that collectively prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he represents the greatest single danger to the fate of both the American people and to himself.’ Photograph: Jonathan Ernst/Reuters
Thu 10 Sep 2020 13.00 EDT

Last modified on Thu 10 Sep 2020 15.06 EDT

464
The Inuit are supposed to have dozens of words to describe snow. The Brits have endless ways to talk about rain. Now it’s time for Americans to delineate all the many ways that Donald Trump is dumb.

If Bob Woodward’s new blockbuster teaches us anything new about the character of the 45th president, it’s that we don’t yet have the words to describe the multiple variants of the vacuum inside his head.

There’s the stupidity of arrogance, the stupidity of ignorance and his old friend: the stupidity of blatant duplicity. There’s his homicidal stupidity, his traitorous stupidity, his criminally corrupt stupidity and his plain old infantile stupidity.

Let’s start with the top of this taxonomy: the domain of Donald’s dumbness. At his core, the former reality TV star is a particularly stupid man who thinks he is very smart. Or as he prefers to call his own character, “a very stable genius”.

Perhaps, just maybe, this lies at the root of his monumentally dumb decision to grant Woodward 18 interviews, on the record and on tape.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/10/donald-trump-bob-woodward-interviews

 

[basilio]

It has been pointed out that the US has NOT had the most deaths per million from COVID. It is fact 11th in the world on that metric.
That perhaps we should be paying more attention and challenging how these other other countries have such an appalling death rate .

So should we examine the Turks and Caicos island, Aruba , Guam, Moldova, Panama, Peru, Kosovo, Brazil, Chile, Argentina , Mexico.?

Just out of interest I wonder where China which closed down its entire economy for weeks with quite harsh authoritarian measures sits on this metric of deaths per million ?
(very, very very small)

 

[basilio]

The problems Guam faces with COVID have become apparent in the past month or so. So what happened. ?

How the tiny Pacific island of Guam became one of America's coronavirus hotspots

Thousands of US sailors on coronavirus-riddled USS Theodore Roosevelt allowed to disembark in Guam
Pacific Beat
Posted Thursday 2 April 2020 at 1:00pm

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09...-pressure-after-coronavirus-outbreak/12637704
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-02/coronavirus-us-navy-sailors-to-disembark-in-guam/12113406

 

[moXJO]

I was wondering...
There has been a slew of very challenging stories for Donald Trump in the last 24 hours.

So how would the Trump media supporters respond in terms of refuting/ challenging/ topic changing the issues that have been raised ?

1) That Trump knew about the dangers of COVID from January 28th but decided to ignore and downplay the risks and effectively undermined the CDC efforts to control the spread of the disease?
2) That Donald was basically smitten with Kim Jung In and lost all control of political processes with North Korea ?
3) That The Don managed to tell everyone US had a new top secret "super duper" weapons system?
4) That the Office of Homeland security ordered intelligence to be rewritten to suit the direction the administration ?
5) That Donald Trump spoke of US soldiers who died or were taken prisoner during wars as "losers" and "suckers" while he was supposed to be commemorating their sacrifice .

The answer of course is that it is impossible to defend or rationalise any of these actions. So the response is the MoXjo summary

Obama failed so hard that Russia and China pulled ahead. Bush and Obama caused wars and untold deaths and were constantly disregarding other countries rights. Bush, Obama, and Clinton setup and mishandled the gfc with more lies and lost money.
Where do you stop with any past President, let alone world leader. Their failures would be to long to list. MoXjo

Just throw out a total fabrication of previous/other leaders history and somehow say that these lies excuse the fact that we cannot with a straight face address the stupidity, the arrogance and the dangers posed by Donald Trump.

Yes a "slew" of stories against Trump. Not exactly surprising. Throw mud and see what sticks in the polls

You put a lot of stories up backed with little evidence or half truths. Once one gets dismissed you go to smoke and move on to the next one. I linked the names of people in the room with Trump who dismissed the accusations. People who hated Trump. And you still put it up. That says it all.

Perhaps you were to stupid to see where the previous president’s had got us.

The list above you made is a delusional representation of the stories. I honestly think tds is a mental illness.

 

[basilio]

You put a lot of stories up backed with little evidence or half truths. Once one gets dismissed you go to smoke and move on to the next one. I linked the names of people in the room with Trump who dismissed the accusations. People who hated Trump. And you still put it up. That says it all.

Not true, never was , never will be.

Why are there a thousand stories about Trump ? Because every day something new, true and horrible breaks the news.

Yes it is hard to keep hold of every, single, stupid, criminal, venal act Donald Trump undertakes. Frankly in any other political environment one, two or at the most three of these actions would result in such a public and press outcry that the President would be forced out of office.

But this new political reality environment he has created is magic isn't it ? Character is meaningless. Just deny, just lie, just DO IT. Sack anyone who disagrees with you. Destroy the credibility of anyone you don't directly employ by calling them Enemies Of The People.

But back to the pro Trump spruikers response to these issues.

1) That Trump knew about the dangers of COVID from January 28th but decided to ignore and downplay the risks and effectively undermined the CDC efforts to control the spread of the disease?
2) That Donald was basically smitten with Kim Jung In and lost all control of political processes with North Korea ?
3) That The Don managed to tell everyone US had a new top secret "super duper" weapons system?
4) That the Office of Homeland security ordered intelligence to be rewritten to suit the direction the administration ?

And by the way. Don't imagine the flood of stories around Trumps incompetence and behaviour will slow down. Big names are just biding their time.
t has happened. What response does the pro trump media have to these scandels ?

 

[moXJO]

Not true, never was , never will be.

Why are there a thousand stories about Trump ? Because every day something new, true and horrible breaks the news.

Yes it is hard to keep hold of every, single, stupid, criminal, venal act Donald Trump undertakes. Frankly in any other political environment one, two or at the most three of these actions would result in such a public and press outcry that the President would be forced out of office.

But this new political reality environment he has created is magic isn't it ? Character is meaningless. Just deny, just lie, just DO IT. Sack anyone who disagrees with you. Destroy the credibility of anyone you don't directly employ by calling them Enemies Of The People.

But back to the pro Trump spruikers response to these issues.

1) That Trump knew about the dangers of COVID from January 28th but decided to ignore and downplay the risks and effectively undermined the CDC efforts to control the spread of the disease?
2) That Donald was basically smitten with Kim Jung In and lost all control of political processes with North Korea ?
3) That The Don managed to tell everyone US had a new top secret "super duper" weapons system?
4) That the Office of Homeland security ordered intelligence to be rewritten to suit the direction the administration ?

And by the way. Don't imagine the flood of stories around Trumps incompetence and behaviour will slow down. Big names are just biding their time.
t has happened. What response does the pro trump media have to these scandels ?

Umm because democrat polls were on the down. So they start flinging sht till it sticks.

You want me to go through that list with a fine tooth comb?

First off put up your evidence of each event. Not anon sources and I will counter. I get sick of countering bogus stories. I don't care for Trump enough to keep wasting time. But I do care enough about the lack of facts that pass as news these days that are colouring people's opinion.
And you are one of the worst offenders for pushing lies bas. But its forgiven as its generally only against Trump

How does it feel to become the man you hate?

 

[basilio]

First off put up your evidence of each event.

Lets start with one. The way in which Trump carried out foreign policy with North Korea, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey.
The sources come from hundreds of hours on interviews by Bob Woodward with White House staff and Trump himself..
I've attached a condensed version. It's clearly more than just a headline but i posted the concluding comments.

Woodward tells how allies tried to rein in 'childish' Trump's foreign policy
On the golf course, Lindsey Graham urged restraint on Iran, while James Mattis slept in his clothes in case of emergency, book says


...The president also expressed pride in his relationship with Turkey’s leader, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who in October 2019 persuaded Trump to announce a troop withdrawal from north-eastern Syria, abandoning America’s Kurdish allies, who had taken the lead in the fight against Isis.

The decision was the last straw for an outraged Mattis.

“When I was basically directed to do something that I thought went beyond stupid to felony stupid, strategically jeopardizing our place in the world, and everything else. That’s when I quit,” the former defence secretary said.

Mattis predicted Trump’s impact on the country would be lasting.

“This degradation of the American experiment is real. This is tangible. Truth is no longer governing the White House statements,” he said.

Coats, the former intelligence director, fired in July 2019 while he was playing golf on one of Trump’s courses, came to a similar conclusion.

“To him, a lie is not a lie. It’s just what he thinks,” Coats said. “He doesn’t know the difference between the truth and a lie.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/10/donald-trump-bob-woodward-iran-qassem-suleimani-golf

 

[basilio]

Bob Woodward on the rationale and research behind his book.

“At key decision points, Rage shows how Trump’s responses to the crises of 2020 were rooted in the instincts, habits and style he developed during his first three years as president.

“Rage draws from hundreds of hours of interviews with firsthand witnesses, as well as participants’ notes, emails, diaries, calendars and confidential documents.”

Speaking to the Guardian about Fear, Woodward said he was dedicated to reporting “what really happened” and said: “Too many people have lost their perspective and become emotionally unhinged about Trump.’”

“I look at my job,” he said, “as: let’s present the rock-solid evidence of what happens. There’s documents, there’s notes, there’s not just the phrase but there’s where they sat and they met and this is what happened. Let the political system respond.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/12/bob-woodward-donald-trump-book-rage-kim-jong-un

 

[moXJO]

Lets start with one. The way in which Trump carried out foreign policy with North Korea, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey.
The sources come from hundreds of hours on interviews by Bob Woodward with White House staff and Trump himself..
I've attached a condensed version. It's clearly more than just a headline but i posted the concluding comments.

Woodward tells how allies tried to rein in 'childish' Trump's foreign policy
On the golf course, Lindsey Graham urged restraint on Iran, while James Mattis slept in his clothes in case of emergency, book says


...The president also expressed pride in his relationship with Turkey’s leader, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who in October 2019 persuaded Trump to announce a troop withdrawal from north-eastern Syria, abandoning America’s Kurdish allies, who had taken the lead in the fight against Isis.

The decision was the last straw for an outraged Mattis.

“When I was basically directed to do something that I thought went beyond stupid to felony stupid, strategically jeopardizing our place in the world, and everything else. That’s when I quit,” the former defence secretary said.

Mattis predicted Trump’s impact on the country would be lasting.

“This degradation of the American experiment is real. This is tangible. Truth is no longer governing the White House statements,” he said.

Coats, the former intelligence director, fired in July 2019 while he was playing golf on one of Trump’s courses, came to a similar conclusion.

“To him, a lie is not a lie. It’s just what he thinks,” Coats said. “He doesn’t know the difference between the truth and a lie.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/10/donald-trump-bob-woodward-iran-qassem-suleimani-golf

That led to the breakthrough peace deal in the middle east between Israel and UAE. That every other president since Truman has failed.
What's the bloody question again?
Did he stop Obamas retarded policies on the middle east- yes.
Did it work?
Well he did what every other president failed to do.
UAE, Egypt, Oman, and Qatar, all supported Trumps plan. The fact it got through with Netanyahu is a miracle in itself.

And the bs about no plan. You don't just achieve something as historic with no bloody plan.
If bob didn't cover this then he is an idiot.

Does the Trump administration have a grand strategy for the Middle East? Conventional wisdom has long held that the answer is "no." Detractors have blasted the president's penchant for disengagement from places like Syria and Afghanistan as proof that the White House doesn't have a clear plan for managing the Middle East, and is in fact actively eyeing the regional exits. Over the last week, however, the administration has proved its critics wrong.

On August 13, President Donald Trump announced that he had succeeded in brokering a peace deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates. Under the new agreement, the first of its kind since the 1994 Jordan-Israel peace treaty, the two countries have committed to fully normalizing diplomatic relations in exchange for an Israeli freeze on plans to apply Israeli sovereignty to parts of the West Bank and the Jordan Valley.

The deal is unquestionably historic. It represents an unalloyed triumph for Israel, which has worked assiduously over the past decade to cultivate deeper political and economic contacts with the Arab states of the Persian Gulf. A decade on, this diplomacy—originally launched on the basis of shared worries over a nearly-nuclear Iran—has become a thriving web of bilateral contacts on everything from trade to scientific collaboration. The aggregate result has strengthened security and prosperity on all sides, with the effect of drawing Jerusalem and Arab capitals much closer together. Last week's announcement was simply a public recognition of this reality.

But the agreement is also a resounding victory for the Trump administration, which has now made serious progress in its vision for the region.

The first part of that vision is focused on Iran. Since President Trump's May 2018 decision to withdraw the U.S. from the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran, his administration has embarked upon a broad campaign of "maximum" political and economic pressure against the Islamic Republic. The objective of that approach is by now abundantly clear: not to change Iran's regime, but to curb its international menace and force it back to the international negotiating table. It has also been broadly successful, dramatically reversing the Iranian regime's economic fortunes and generating renewed internal dissent against clerical rule.

The second prong centers on the administration's so-called "deal of the century" for Israeli-Palestinian peace. Unveiled publicly back in January, the plan is a detailed proposal that, among other things, offers the Palestinian leadership tremendous economic opportunities (some $50 billion in prospective U.S. investment) in exchange for a normalization of ties with Israel. Although the Palestinian leadership has thus far rejected the White House's offer, it has been effectively endorsed by a bevy of Arab nations (including the UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Egypt, Morocco and Qatar), as well as by Israel itself, thereby further setting the stage for the current unfolding detente.

Connecting these two poles is what is arguably the Trump administration's most important (but least well-known) regional initiative: the Middle East Strategic Alliance. Since 2017, administration officials have been working quietly with their counterparts in places like Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the UAE and Jordan to build a regional security grouping aimed at "confront[ing] extremism, terrorism, [and] achieving peace, stability and development" in the region. Popularized as an "Arab NATO" against Iran and the Islamic State, the bloc is actually intended to be much more. As administration officials have intimated, the objective is to eventually incorporate countries like Morocco and Israel into the evolving political, economic and military architecture. Last week's peace deal marks a significant step toward that objective.

If the administration has its way, however, it will be just the beginning. "Now that the ice has been broken, I expect more Arab and Muslim countries will follow the United Arab Emirates' lead," President Trump noted upon announcing the August 13 accord.

What happened to the Kurds was unforgivable. But a power shift is happening across the middle east. The strategy the US military were using under Obama was failing. Under every other US president in fact.

The middle east changed under Trump from a meatgrinder for generals to play stupid war games, to a place where hope has now grown.

Now what's the next stupid argument you are putting forward?

 

[Knobby22]

Trumps foreign policy has been good for the world and why is counter intuitive.

Firstly he stated and acted on not getting into wars (unlike the Bushes), especially endless wars as they are a waste of money. He has kept his promise and not got into any. Result: the world is realising the USA is not going to get involved and take sides

Secondly, he is slowly getting out of Europe and the Middle East, also to save money and because oil is less critical. Result: the countries need to normalise relations because they are on their own.

Thirdly, he has shown the USA cannot be trusted The Kurds in particular learnt the hard way, but the UAE, the Ukrainians etc. also realised it. The Saudis are waking up.

Result - Peace because the days of the white knight riding in to save the day are gone.

 

[dutchie]

It has been pointed out that the US has NOT had the most deaths per million from COVID. It is fact 11th in the world on that metric.
That perhaps we should be paying more attention and challenging how these other other countries have such an appalling death rate .

So should we examine the Turks and Caicos island, Aruba , Guam, Moldova, Panama, Peru, Kosovo, Brazil, Chile, Argentina , Mexico.?

Just out of interest I wonder where China which closed down its entire economy for weeks with quite harsh authoritarian measures sits on this metric of deaths per million ?
(very, very very small)

China lied, people died.

 

[dutchie]

In 45 mths, Trump has brought peace between Israel, UAE-Bahrain, Kosovo & Serbia, eradicated ISIS, stopped Iranian threats, ended the Mideast chaos & wars that Obama, Biden & Bush started.

In 47 yrs, all Biden has done is help his brothers & son get rich from foreign countries.

 

[dutchie]

Trump Carefully Composing Tweet That Should Fix Everything
September 11th, 2020

1SHARE
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WASHINGTON, D.C.—Noticing all the problems the country has faced this year, from the coronavirus to civil unrest to general disunity, President Donald Trump has become determined to do something. That’s why, sources say, he sat down to carefully compose the perfect tweet that should fix everything.


“I have to get this just right,” Trump was heard muttering to himself as he sent another abandoned tweet to the drafts folder. “I have two hundred eighty characters to nail this and make everything better.”

Trump has tweeted a lot as president, and many have accused his tweets of often making things worse. But this time Trump is determined to use all his tweeting skill to bring the entire country together, meeting the potential of Twitter in a way it has never been used in its entire history.

“I have to get this just right,” Trump said. “Let’s see. ‘To all the losers...’ No. That’s not right. Ah. ‘To all the haters and losers...’ I’m nearly there. I can feel it.”

When Trump was last seen, he was still hard at work on the tweet, demanding complete silence, except for Fox & Friends playing on the TV.

 

[moXJO]

Trumps foreign policy has been good for the world and why is counter intuitive.

Firstly he stated and acted on not getting into wars (unlike the Bushes), especially endless wars as they are a waste of money. He has kept his promise and not got into any. Result: the world is realising the USA is not going to get involved and take sides

Secondly, he is slowly getting out of Europe and the Middle East, also to save money and because oil is less critical. Result: the countries need to normalise relations because they are on their own.

Thirdly, he has shown the USA cannot be trusted The Kurds in particular learnt the hard way, but the UAE, the Ukrainians etc. also realised it. The Saudis are waking up.

Result - Peace because the days of the white knight riding in to save the day are gone.

I was talking to some high rankers out of Iraqi.
They told me to replenish stock with new bombs that they would bomb the sht out of the country to use up old stock. Then charge that country and replenish with newer weapons.
Huge money in it. For some, not for the taxpayers.

Biden has already said he will keep troops in the middle east. Its a dead format in a post Trump world.

 

[moXJO]

Thirdly, he has shown the USA cannot be trusted The Kurds in particular learnt the hard way, but the UAE, the Ukrainians etc. also realised it. The Saudis are waking up.

Result - Peace because the days of the white knight riding in to save the day are gone.

We all forget that the Afghans learnt it under Obama. South Vietnamese learnt it. It wasn't just under Trump. There is a long history and a lot more if I really dug deep.

I believe Turkey is a threat under their current tinpot though.

 

[basilio]

Now what's the next stupid argument you are putting forward?

To you none at all.

If you read that excerpt from Rage in total and still think The Don has done anything close to the right thing with regard to international relations then so be it.

And if you believe Israels annexure of the West Bank is a "peace plan" your sadly mistaken.
It's just a criminal piece of Lebensraum politics.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52756427

____________________________
You asked for evidence based arguments about Donald Trumps fitness to be President.
Bob Woodward spent hundreds of hours interviewing administration officials and Trump himself across domestic policy , foreign policy, international relations and government response to the deadly COVID virus.

He pulled it all together including the final moments when General Mathis had to decide that "stupid to felony stupid" was just too far.

And then you call these these "stupid arguments".

 

[basilio]

The final lines of Woodward’s last book may linger in the minds of many readers.

John Dowd, a lawyer who worked for the president during the Mueller investigation into Russian election interference and links between the Trump campaign and Moscow, was one of Woodward’s sources.

“In the man and his presidency Dowd had seen the tragic flaw,” Woodward wrote.

“In the political back-and-forth, the evasions, the denials, the tweeting, the obscuring, crying ‘Fake News’, the indignation, Trump had one overriding problem that Dowd knew but could not bring himself to say to the president: ‘You’re a xucking liar.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/12/bob-woodward-donald-trump-book-rage-kim-jong-un

 

[basilio]

Trumps foreign policy has been good for the world and why is counter intuitive.

Firstly he stated and acted on not getting into wars (unlike the Bushes), especially endless wars as they are a waste of money. He has kept his promise and not got into any. Result: the world is realising the USA is not going to get involved and take sides

Secondly, he is slowly getting out of Europe and the Middle East, also to save money and because oil is less critical. Result: the countries need to normalise relations because they are on their own.

Thirdly, he has shown the USA cannot be trusted The Kurds in particular learnt the hard way, but the UAE, the Ukrainians etc. also realised it. The Saudis are waking up.

Result - Peace because the days of the white knight riding in to save the day are gone.

That is one interesting perspective Knobby. I wonder if it is your interpretation ?
I would take another view on these points

The US has taken an interventionist role in wars around the world because they saw it in their economic and political interest. They were protecting US economic interests and projecting US political power to contain/confront USSR/Russia and China.

The most recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were naked interventions to steal oil and somehow stop the terrorism they themselves had fermented.

Getting out of Europe and Middle East ? Sure essentially just undermine the economic and political relationships that have been the points of Western solidarity in the post war world. And then watch the political impact Russia and China play in those regions.

Proving the US can't be trusted ? Well that is a big one isn't it ? Just lay it on the line that the US policies to any country can be torn up on a whim depending on how the President feels about their current leader, whether Fox news has a juicy piece of propaganda that puts them in bad light, or if one of his pet projects is not approved and supported by the country.

Are you suggesting these changes represent an improvement of US foreign policy ?

__________________________

It also bears mentioning that US foreign policy under Trump has
1) Undermined the UN and a whole range of international agreements around health, conservation, international order
2) Withdrawal from international Climate Change action and undermining local and international efforts to address the most critical issue facing the world
3) Systematically supporting and encouraging the most aggressive right wing leaders across the world while undermining democratic countries. His support for Brazil, Hungary, Poland, Turkey are clear examples.

Again are these positive changes to US foreign policy ?

 

[bellenuit]

What he really thinks: Trump mocks Christians, calls them "fools" and "schmucks"

https://www.salon.com/2020/09/11/wh...nEbmMvpbuRpiPFmtWZFfocV0hUSNy_r7UYsVp_65hldDY

IMO Trump is correct on some things, it's just his dishonesty about it that is the huge issue. Although I wouldn't hold such an opinion about most Christians, certainly many of the US style evangelicals are "fools" and "schmucks" which is fully exemplified by their following of some quite blatantly corrupt pastors, many of these leaders being gathered for that infamous photo of the hands on Trump's head.

Some fo the opinions he express about the Vietnam war too were not too far off the point and would have been a view shared by many on the Left during the 80s. Again, it's his pretence about it that becomes an issue, particularly when he holds the role of CIC.