Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

When does the MINI SPI contract start trading?

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Hey, you guys were right about the Hang Seng futures market, that sucker MOVES!

The HS is HK$50 per tick (only US$6 but it makes incredibly large ranges even on a one-minute chart) and that is way too roller-coaster-puke-up for me.

But the mini would only be $1.30 USD per tick - that much I can prolly handle.

I'm love the chart, it looks so liquid and volatile, just what a day trader needs!

Is the mini very liquid? The full-sized one certainly is, here's a one minute chart:
Hang Seng Index Futures February
 
Hopeful said:
Hey, you guys were right about the Hang Seng futures market, that sucker MOVES!

The HS is HK$50 per tick (only US$6 but it makes incredibly large ranges even on a one-minute chart) and that is way too roller-coaster-puke-up for me.

But the mini would only be $1.30 USD per tick - that much I can prolly handle.

I'm love the chart, it looks so liquid and volatile, just what a day trader needs!

Is the mini very liquid? The full-sized one certainly is, here's a one minute chart:
Hang Seng Index Futures February
Click to expand...
The mini is nowhere near as liquid. It will generally do about 10 000 contracts a day. If you only want to move a couple of contracts it shouldn't be a problem,depending on your style of trading and execution skills.
 
Just wanted to pop in and praise the Hang Seng. I've been using the full contract chart and trading with the mini, although not as liquid the full, the mini is very suitable for day trading - much better than the SPI (IMHO). Thanks to those who put me on to it. Cheers.
 
March 16th, 2007 update. The morning session has just finished and what a morning it was! The HS moved up in a nice trend giving anyone with simple TA skills the chance to enter several times with low risk. Compare it to the SPI and you'll see that it is clearly much more liquid and produced a much clearer smoother chart. Goodbye SPI.
 
Hopeful said:
March 16th, 2007 update. The morning session has just finished and what a morning it was! The HS moved up in a nice trend giving anyone with simple TA skills the chance to enter several times with low risk. Compare it to the SPI and you'll see that it is clearly much more liquid and produced a much clearer smoother chart. Goodbye SPI.
Click to expand...

The Hang Seng does good volume but take a look at the bid/ask spread its often 5 points or more, take a look at how many contracts are on the bid and offer?, its often very thin with only a handful of contracts either side a lot of the time :confused: , not sure why considering the volume is about 4 times or more the Spi and that usually has a tight spread and plenty on the bid and offer??????.

As you have said this market moves and can move very quickly, but get the wrong side of it and it will kick you in the teeth before you can blink, slippage is the norm for this market its very rare I don’t get any!, if you trade it eventually it will get you not just for a few slippage points but 30/40/50+ :eek: that I will guarantee.

On the plus side, get the right side of a move and the rewards are very good, just be prepared to hang (excuse the pun!)In there and kop the losses on the chin as over time returns can be very good.

Cheers

Pager
 
Hopeful

Another market you may want to consider with a smaller tick size is the MSCI Taiwan Index that trades on the SGX Exchange in Singapore, US$10 per tick and it does very good volume.

Cheers

Pager
 
Ｐａｇｅｒ，　I have found that the spread for the HS mini is almost always 1 to 5 ticks wide, most of the time I've been able to get filled somewhere between the two, but if I see a particularly strong reason to get in I'll just take the offer. I don't think the wide spread is a big problem because of the way it dances all around the place and allows limit orders to get hit pretty quickly.

The most important aspect of trading the MHS for me is that one tick is only worth $10 HK, it's such a small amount that it doesn't freak me out too badly (but still does a little) - this means I can trade my plan and not let my lack of nads get the better of me. Also, as I'm only doing one contract at a time the lack of volume doesn't matter to me - I only need one lot (or two to reverse).

Your cautionary note (getting on the wrong side of a big move) is noted! However, if my trading plan is any good (which I think it is) then I should already be out or reversed when the big move happens. But "should" and "will" are a little different. I'll post my comments here as I gain more experience with it.

I'll have a look at the MSCI Taiwan index on Monday - it might even be better than the Mini HS?

Cheers.
 
Pager said:
Hi prof, more than a couple of weeks, time flys eh :)

Friday 5th January got caught long and a short sweep order took all the longs to the cleaners :(

Market then rcovered and ended the day up a couple of hundred points :mad:
Click to expand...

Hey, I know this is a long shot but does anyone have sierrachart tick data for January the 5th for the HSI futures contract? I would like to see what may have happened to me if I had been trading that day (I doubt I can get a backfill on an already-expired contract). Thanks heaps.
 
Howdy Hopeful:)

You still trading the MHI? If you are, how are you finding it now that you've got a few trades under your belt?
 
professor_frink said:
Howdy Hopeful:)

You still trading the MHI? If you are, how are you finding it now that you've got a few trades under your belt?
Click to expand...

I haven't been all that active but I can make a judgment at this point; the MHI, although not as liquid as the HSI, is plenty liquid enough for day trading. It mirrors the HSI closely enough to hardly notice and difference. I haven't been stuck in any trade that went against me with any ferocity ... yet. As I said before, this market as far superior to the SPI for very short-term day trading - makes me wonder why I bothered with the SPI at all.

For example: Pull up a one-minute chart of the HSI for today (Wednesday the 11th of April). You will see it had a simple trend line break about 15 minutes before lunch. Had you bought it then (20315), or even at the start of the afternoon session(20345), you wouldn't have had any reason to exit (23.6% Fib and red candles) until about 25 minutes after the start of the afternoon session (20430). At least 100 points. You could have re-entered on the basis of a trend resumption 15 minutes after that and exited after a repeat of the previous range ( it went a little over ) for another 100+ points.

Of course that's a lot of ifs buts, maybes, and could haves - and furthermore I wasn't even there to trade it (darn day job!), but my point is is that it's a great market to trade - the best I've found so far! I'm hopeful that I can make this a good part-time income.
 
How closely does the HK HS34, follow the HSI? This is not as broad as as the HSI correct?

Cheers,
 
Hopeful said:
I haven't been all that active but I can make a judgment at this point; the MHI, although not as liquid as the HSI, is plenty liquid enough for day trading. It mirrors the HSI closely enough to hardly notice and difference. I haven't been stuck in any trade that went against me with any ferocity ... yet. As I said before, this market as far superior to the SPI for very short-term day trading - makes me wonder why I bothered with the SPI at all.

For example: Pull up a one-minute chart of the HSI for today (Wednesday the 11th of April). You will see it had a simple trend line break about 15 minutes before lunch. Had you bought it then (20315), or even at the start of the afternoon session(20345), you wouldn't have had any reason to exit (23.6% Fib and red candles) until about 25 minutes after the start of the afternoon session (20430). At least 100 points. You could have re-entered on the basis of a trend resumption 15 minutes after that and exited after a repeat of the previous range ( it went a little over ) for another 100+ points.

Of course that's a lot of ifs buts, maybes, and could haves - and furthermore I wasn't even there to trade it (darn day job!), but my point is is that it's a great market to trade - the best I've found so far! I'm hopeful that I can make this a good part-time income.
Click to expand...

One thing I've been very wary of is buying/selling just before the lunchbreak, as the gaps can be fairly severe, and not always sympathetic to the morning trend. Only time I've ever held has been when I've got set pretty early and am sitting on fairly decent gains- worst case then is losing some open profit, not having a loss blow out on me.

Days like yesterday are great to trade, and haven't been that uncommon since I started trading it(though I only started at the end of January, just as it was making a top:))

Good luck with it in the future hopeful:) Hope it's nice to you!

CanOz said:
How closely does the HK HS34, follow the HSI? This is not as broad as as the HSI correct?

Cheers,
Click to expand...
What's the HK HS34 canuck?
 
professor_frink said:
One thing I've been very wary of is buying/selling just before the lunchbreak, as the gaps can be fairly severe, and not always sympathetic to the morning trend. Only time I've ever held has been when I've got set pretty early and am sitting on fairly decent gains- worst case then is losing some open profit, not having a loss blow out on me.

Days like yesterday are great to trade, and haven't been that uncommon since I started trading it(though I only started at the end of January, just as it was making a top:))

Good luck with it in the future hopeful:) Hope it's nice to you!


What's the HK HS34 canuck?
Click to expand...

Its a CFD indice contract, and it has a mini available too, still trying to find out exactly what indice it is, i figured it must be a group of say 34 large caps....still looking.

Prof, do you use Pivot Points on your indices and on what times frames?

Cheers,
 
CanOz said:
Its a CFD indice contract, and it has a mini available too, still trying to find out exactly what indice it is, i figured it must be a group of say 34 large caps....still looking.

Prof, do you use Pivot Points on your indices and on what times frames?

Cheers,
Click to expand...
Sounds like it would be the Hang Seng canuck, that's roughly how many co's are in it(I think:eek: )

Yes, generally use pivots for the indicies, but don't use them for the Hang Seng. Use them for the nikkei, and mainly for the opening period. On the nikkei, I use daily pivots, and will keep an eye on weeklies as well.

The most common timeframes to use them on are daily, weekly and monthly. Weeklies and monthly pivots can be used for swing trading as well as intraday.

If you want to look into them a bit further, John L. Person has a book out called "A complete guide to technical trading tactics- how to profit using pivot points, candlesticks & other indicators". 'twas a good read:)

There an absolutly huge amount of information on pivots on the net though, google is your friend in this instance:)
 
professor_frink said:
Sounds like it would be the Hang Seng canuck, that's roughly how many co's are in it(I think:eek: )

Yes, generally use pivots for the indicies, but don't use them for the Hang Seng. Use them for the nikkei, and mainly for the opening period. On the nikkei, I use daily pivots, and will keep an eye on weeklies as well.

The most common timeframes to use them on are daily, weekly and monthly. Weeklies and monthly pivots can be used for swing trading as well as intraday.

If you want to look into them a bit further, John L. Person has a book out called "A complete guide to technical trading tactics- how to profit using pivot points, candlesticks & other indicators". 'twas a good read:)

There an absolutly huge amount of information on pivots on the net though, google is your friend in this instance:)
Click to expand...

I've got that book in front of me now actually! Just finished Brent Penfold's Trading the SPI, first read.

Pivots, thanks, don't hear you guys talk much about them thats why i was curious.

Cheers,
 
CanOz said:
I've got that book in front of me now actually! Just finished Brent Penfold's Trading the SPI, first read.

Pivots, thanks, don't hear you guys talk much about them thats why i was curious.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

In the SPI thread, most of the charts I've posted have at least the dailies on them. There are a few charts with weekly+monthly pivots as well. And some clues on how you could possibly use them:)

If you are going to have a look at them, I should make a suggestion- they are a fairly subjective way of looking at the market, so spend a bit of time looking at charts forming in real time, with the pivots from whatever timeframe you are looking at stuck on there- Like any other indicator, how you handle the days they don't work so well is the most important part:)
 
professor_frink said:
In the SPI thread, most of the charts I've posted have at least the dailies on them. There are a few charts with weekly+monthly pivots as well. And some clues on how you could possibly use them:)

If you are going to have a look at them, I should make a suggestion- they are a fairly subjective way of looking at the market, so spend a bit of time looking at charts forming in real time, with the pivots from whatever timeframe you are looking at stuck on there- Like any other indicator, how you handle the days they don't work so well is the most important part:)
Click to expand...

Excellent advice Prof, thanks you.

Cheers,
 
Professor Frink, I had a pretty bad "week" (I can only trade 4 or 5 morning sessions a week and one full day) trading MHI. My limit orders weren't getting filled and I ended up taking much bigger losses than intended because of it. The point you made about the five-point spread is making more sense now.

I'm now in the red by a few thousand HKDs, not that it's a big deal but psychologically it doesn't help my ability to pull the trigger. Not only that but I managed to miss many of the nice big moves but was very good at catching the false breakouts and whipsaws :( .

Why is it that the big moves are so elusive but the little ones are constantly begging to be traded?
 

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