Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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Is there any evidence exactly what colour the ancient Israelites were?
DNA evidence would be an indicator that could be looked at, also ancient artworks where they depict themselves as being dark skined, but there would be no reason to believe the Israelites were western Europeans.
The popular images of Jesus being a white man didn't show up until centuries later as the artwork and names of characters etc were westernised, John, James, Thomas etc were not the original names of the apostles if you hadn't already guessed.
View attachment 65250
Here is an ancient mural of Moses,
View attachment 65251
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So what were John, James, Thomas in their original? Saul is Paul I take it?
Not true.Well no one knows for sure since the original texts weren't written till about 100years after the events, but in the original texts they were as follows.
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ThanksDNA evidence would be an indicator that could be looked at, also ancient artworks where they depict themselves as being dark skined, but there would be no reason to believe the Israelites were western Europeans.
The popular images of Jesus being a white man didn't show up until centuries later as the artwork and names of characters etc were westernised, John, James, Thomas etc were not the original names of the apostles if you hadn't already guessed.
View attachment 65250
Here is an ancient mural of Moses,
View attachment 65251
Not true.
Mark was written between 55AD and 70AD. The writing is very simple. He was an ordinary man. Note, no genealogy or birth narrative and was written in Greek. In the early Church he is described as mark the Evangelist and it is said he was a friend of St Peter.
Luke on the other hand was written much later by a highly educated man in the 80s or 90s around Asia minor.
Matthew, was also written independently a the same time. In Anticoch or Damascus.
They are both based on Mark.
Some scholars say they were written earlier as they don't mention the destruction of the Jewish temple in AD70.
John is probably about 100 years old and is quite different.
Although some scholars disagree, the vast majority of researchers believe that Mark was the first Gospel to be written, sometime around the year 70.
Is Spain Western Europe?
Next question: How white do you have to be to be white?
What about the Greeks, Spaniards, Southern Italians etc. Are they white?
If so, why aren't the Turks white?
And, in this Orwellian world, can blacks be white? (It certainly seems whites can be black )
If some Indians are Aryan, does that mean they're white, or are white Aryans actually brown?
What I'm trying to get to Tisyou, is - define white. Seems to be a fuzzy line there.
What I'm trying to get to Tisyou, is - define white. Seems to be a fuzzy line there.
An Anthropologist, Archaeologist and Geologist who attended the University of Illinois circa 1915, and graduated from UCLA contining graduate studies in Geology and Anthropology, Lucile Taylor-Hansen had a passion. For more then 40 years she collected and compiled a plethora of Native American oral histories recalling a fair-skinned bearded prophet who spoke 1,000 languages, healed the sick, raised the dead and taught in the same words as Jesus.
Remembered by such names as Viracocha in ancient Peru, Kate-Zahl to the Toltec, Tlazoma (Tacoma) to the tribes of the Pacific Northwest, Azoma, Mahnt Azoma and the Morning Star in North American and Mexico, the same legend is recalled throughout the Americas according to tribal lore. Known as the Healer, the Prophet, the Miracle Worker, God of the Dawn Light, the Wind God, the Teacher, and the White-Robed Master, although the names were different, the legends are sung the same: In Polynesia they tell of three great ships that sailed from the West. Moving across the water there appeared a fair-skinned man in a long white garment, brown hair and golden beard. When He reached land the people saw that His robe was dry. Thus they knew He was a God. Scholars ascribe this legend to the 1st century AD. Among the Toltec of central Mexico there lived a Prophet with gray-green eyes and golden sandals. With 12 disciples He taught the people His religion of peace. The Mound Builders of North America told of a great Healer who could raise the dead and heal the sick. He walked among the people, hands raised in blessing. A mysterious cross graced each palm. Such are the stories whispered by the Holy Men and Keepers of the Legend for nearly 2,000 years.
I thought olives were green? Or black?
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An Anthropologist, Archaeologist and Geologist who attended the University of Illinois circa 1915, and graduated from UCLA contining graduate studies in Geology and Anthropology, Lucile Taylor-Hansen had a passion. For more then 40 years she collected and compiled a plethora of Native American oral histories recalling a fair-skinned bearded prophet who spoke 1,000 languages, healed the sick, raised the dead and taught in the same words as Jesus.
Remembered by such names as Viracocha in ancient Peru, Kate-Zahl to the Toltec, Tlazoma (Tacoma) to the tribes of the Pacific Northwest, Azoma, Mahnt Azoma and the Morning Star in North American and Mexico, the same legend is recalled throughout the Americas according to tribal lore. Known as the Healer, the Prophet, the Miracle Worker, God of the Dawn Light, the Wind God, the Teacher, and the White-Robed Master, although the names were different, the legends are sung the same: In Polynesia they tell of three great ships that sailed from the West. Moving across the water there appeared a fair-skinned man in a long white garment, brown hair and golden beard. When He reached land the people saw that His robe was dry. Thus they knew He was a God. Scholars ascribe this legend to the 1st century AD. Among the Toltec of central Mexico there lived a Prophet with gray-green eyes and golden sandals. With 12 disciples He taught the people His religion of peace. The Mound Builders of North America told of a great Healer who could raise the dead and heal the sick. He walked among the people, hands raised in blessing. A mysterious cross graced each palm. Such are the stories whispered by the Holy Men and Keepers of the Legend for nearly 2,000 years.
There is a better than good chance he was dark, but who knows
Value Collector said:There is actually a better than good chance that he didn't exist at all,
Nevertheless there is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically,[5][6][7][nb 1][nb 2][nb 3][nb 4] although biblical scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the Gospels.[nb 5][13][nb 6][2]:168–173 While scholars have sometimes criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness,[nb 7] with very few exceptions, such critics do support the historicity of Jesus, and reject the theory that Jesus never existed, known as the Christ myth theory.[16][nb 8][18][19][20] Certain scholars, particularly in Europe, have recently made the case that while there are a number of plausible "Jesuses" that could have existed, there can be no certainty as to which Jesus was the historical Jesus, and that there should also be more scholarly research and debate on this topic.[21][22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
The majority of historians disagree with you, most agree that Jesus existed, although the details of his life are pretty sketchy.
There is no evidence outside the bible (that I have heard off) of Jesus. I really want to see some documents or artworks or writings from his enemies etc that came about during his life (not 70 years later), feel free to point me in the direction of where I can find them.
Roman historian Tacitus referred to 'Christus' and his execution by Pontius Pilate in his Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.[38] The very negative tone of Tacitus' comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe.[39] The Tacitus reference is now widely accepted as an independent confirmation of Christ's crucifixion,[40] although some scholars question the authenticity of the passage on various different grounds.[39][41][42][43][44][45][46][47]
Classical historian Michael Grant wrote that:
If we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned.[48]
You might actually try reading the article quoted before being so dismissive.
I really want to see some documents or artworks or writings from his enemies etc that came about during his life (not 70 years later), feel free to point me in the direction of where I can find them.
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