What is a realistic average daily return for a day trader?

[Timmy]

Thanks for the info Timmy, i'll check it out later on.

It is really good stuff Cutz.

 

[nomore4s]

Nah,

I reckon it's like learning an instrument, most can learn to play, only the gifted will become virtuoso.

That's cool i agree to disagree on that one.

But do you have to be a virtuoso to be profitable? There are plenty of musicians making a good living from music without being virtuoso's.

 

[Trembling Hand]

But do you have to be a virtuoso to be profitable? There are plenty of musicians making a good living from music without being virtuoso's.

Thats a very good question.

 

[cutz]

But do you have to be a virtuoso to be profitable? There are plenty of musicians making a good living from music without being virtuoso's.

We are talking day trading here i assume ?,

Technically a day trader will open and close all positions by the end of the trading day. Yes indeed, a special gift is required to be profitable IMO.

But then again it’s not my zone so who am I to say.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Technically a day trader will open and close all positions by the end of the trading day. Yes indeed, a special gift is required to be profitable IMO.

Such as what? A special kind of magic to see where the market is going?

What are these "special gifts" you speak of and where can I buy them

 

[nomore4s]

We are talking day trading here i assume ?,

Technically a day trader will open and close all positions by the end of the trading day. Yes indeed, a special gift is required to be profitable IMO.

But then again it’s not my zone so who am I to say.

lol, yes we are talking about daytrading.

I'm interested in why you think it requires a special gift to be profitable and isn't just a skill set that needs to be learnt?

 

[cutz]

Dunno TH, you tell me.

EDIT>> Sorry didn't mean gift, how about a special talent.

 

[mazzatelli1000]

Maybe when cutz refers to "special gifts" maybe it should be interpreted as finding your niche and capitalising on the strength?

 

[Trembling Hand]

Dunno TH, you tell me.

EDIT>> Sorry didn't mean gift, how about a special talent.

define for us what talent is?

 

[Grinder]

Maybe when cutz refers to "special gifts" maybe it should be interpreted as finding your niche and capitalising on the strength?

Exactly! Truely understanding your personality is a good start. Maximizing your strengths, being honest & accepting of your weaknesses, combined with passion & dedication can do wonders. No need for special talents or extra high IQ imo.

 

[Cartman]

that also why I love options, a position can be manipulated on the hop rather than closing out,

interesting point Cutz ----- you can also jockey for position day trading ----- (position sizing = v. important)

There are plenty of musicians making a good living from music without being virtuoso's.

yep --- a lot of virtuoso musos probably eat baked beans for dinner every second night whereas Joe bloggs doing AC-DC covers at the local pub has gigs lined up for a year -------- different long term potentials though

 

[cutz]

OK Gotcha Guys,

So anyone can be a successful day trader through having proper training, dedication, practice, correct money management techniques, equipment ect.ect. That certain knack, special talent or whatever is not required, what the hell was I thinking.

Thanks for enlightening me.


Think i'll stick with what i know.


EDIT>> For TH who asked me to define talent,>>an attractive member of the opposite sex.

 

[nunthewiser]

But do you have to be a virtuoso to be profitable? There are plenty of musicians making a good living from music without being virtuoso's.

yeah well take Duran Duran for an example

 

[cutz]

But do you have to be a virtuoso to be profitable? There are plenty of musicians making a good living from music without being virtuoso's.

Guys,

I was using the musician as a metaphor, i.e. the pinnacle for a learner musician is to become a virtuoso of that instrument, not to be able to pull a massive wage, and not everyone can achieve that. The pinnacle of a learner day trader is to be pulling his/her required wage without holding overnight positions, well that’s what I assume.

Yeah we all know that anyone can mimic a great riff but how many musos can cook one up, there’s still only one AC/DC but plenty of wannabees.

Even i’ve got an electric guitar don’t ask me to write something, I can play you a tune though.

 

[craigj]

i dont day trade but if i see a stock with a large number of buyers to sellers at the pre open i may buy and set a sell price 4-6% higher once ive bought and if the price rises that % during the day then i have pulled around $300 from the market

a few of these trades a month will help your average out

 

[skc]

I'd really like to discuss this, especially with someone who thinks the market is infact zero sum.

Lets simplify zero sum

Company A has 2 shares and they are priced at $1.00 each.
Person X and person Y both hold 1 share

Company A posts a massive profit and people are willing to buy for $30.00 each

Person X likes Company A and decides to hold
Person Y decides to sell for $30.00 to person Z

Person Y realises a profit of $29.00

Who lost $29.00?

The obvious candidate is person Z. But he can now sell for $30.00 and realise no loss at all.

Im not saying im right
I just can't comprehend how it can be zero sum

The company lost $29 a share by selling their shares at $1 in the initial listing...

OK Gotcha Guys,

So anyone can be a successful day trader through having proper training, dedication, practice, correct money management techniques, equipment ect.ect. That certain knack, special talent or whatever is not required, what the hell was I thinking.

The only thing missing here is the right personality/temperment like many people have mentioned. Hard to be really succcessful at something if you don't enjoy (or at least not hate it).

 

[awg]

define for us what talent is?

A marked innate ability, as for artistic accomplishment.

Natural endowment or ability of a superior quality.

I would add that an individual would require the capacity to form neural pathways that facilitate the task they are doing.

Examples are abundant in sport, music, work etc

No amount of determination and relentless practice would mean you can bat like Don Bradman.

Jimi Hendrix guitar work was almost super natural for his time

Even though they practiced to the point of obsession..they had TALENT

Do you really think that any person can become a very successful trader, given sufficient training?

I think the majority? of people lack the required capabilities, even though to define exactly what they are for traders, you would be better able to say.

So I am not sure whether your question is rhetorical, but IMHO the combination of various innate characteristics within a person would surely mean that they may be far superior as a trader to another, all other factors being equal

 

[Trembling Hand]

A marked innate ability, as for artistic accomplishment.

Natural endowment or ability of a superior quality.

I would add that an individual would require the capacity to form neural pathways that facilitate the task they are doing.

Examples are abundant in sport, music, work etc

No amount of determination and relentless practice would mean you can bat like Don Bradman.

Jimi Hendrix guitar work was almost super natural for his time

Even though they practiced to the point of obsession..they had TALENT

Do you really think that any person can become a very successful trader, given sufficient training?

I think the majority? of people lack the required capabilities, even though to define exactly what they are for traders, you would be better able to say.

So I am not sure whether your question is rhetorical, but IMHO the combination of various innate characteristics within a person would surely mean that they may be far superior as a trader to another, all other factors being equal

awg with all due respect your post is full of populist unproven mystical nonsense!!

Study after study has proven the diff between the "talented experts" at the top of their field is 10,000 to 20,000 hours or more of deliberative practise.

There has been countless studies disproving the "naturally gifted" achiever. Outside of basic requirements, like being the right height for basketballer or a reasonable level of intelligence for a medico you will find that the equation of (opportunity) + (Hours of deliberative practise) = how far they get along the Amature - Expert line.

Here's a little extract from some of the 100s of articles and books I've read looking into this,

When experts exhibit their superior performance in public their behavior looks so effortless and natural that we are tempted to attribute it to special talents. Although a certain amount of knowledge and training seems necessary, the role of acquired skill for the highest levels of achievement has traditionally been minimized. However, when scientists began measuring the experts' supposedly superior powers of speed, memory and intelligence with psychometric tests, no general superiority was found --the demonstrated superiority was domain specific. For example, the superiority of the chess experts' memory was constrained to regular chess positions and did not generalize to other types of materials (Djakow, Petrowski & Rudik, 1927). Not even IQ could distinguish the best among chessplayers (Doll & Mayr, 1987) nor the most successful and creative among artists and scientists (Taylor, 1975). In a recent review, Ericsson and Lehmann (1996) found that (1) measures of general basic capacities do not predict success in a domain, (2) the superior performance of experts is often very domain specific and transfer outside their narrow area of expertise is surprisingly limited and (3) systematic differences between experts and less proficient individuals nearly always reflect attributes acquired by the experts during their lengthy training.

By imposing scientific standards for verifiable facts on exceptional performance it is possible to exclude the large body of retrospective accounts and studies documenting amazing past achievements that have fueled beliefs in the magical abilities and talents attributed to exceptional individuals.

http://www.amazon.com/Road-Excellence-Acquisition-Performance-Sciences/dp/0805822321

 

[awg]

Hi TH,

thanks for the informative reply.

I acknowledge your interest, study and expertise in this area

which is why I posed the question.

I could have inserted that I consider determination to be a characteristic of talent

We will have to respectfully disagree about Don Bradman

I totally agree with the "domain specific" qoutes

I think that was largely what I meant, if that is not too confusing

 

[Trembling Hand]

I could have inserted that I consider determination to be a characteristic of talent

We will have to respectfully disagree about Don Bradman

Well thats one thing the studies have yet to get to or prove/disprove. It has been shown that opportunity and advantage because of social biases have an effect on success. like height or good looking people. etc but no one has been able to come up with a theory about why such people can spend so long in deliberative practise.