Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Mutchy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Even if all the 6,000 unit holders that WC say can be paid in whole have only 5,000 units that's already 30 mill units, that only leaves 7 mill units for the 4,000 other unit holders that have more than 10,000 units. I can't see how this would work.

BTW: I am not saying there are 6,000 unit holders that can be paid in whole. This info came from WC and I personally do not agree with this information based on the document I have acquired. I don't want to go into detail as I'm not sure by law what I'm allowed to say.

Regarding funding the buyback, the EM said the “off market buy-back is to be funded through asset realisations”
Also I think the special distribution is coming from any money we get from Octaviar for the support facility.

Hi Dora
You also said:

"WC are saying all 10,387 unit holders will be able to have their first 10,000 units bought back. You can't divide 37 mill by 6,000 you have to divide it by 10,387. The reference to the 6,000 is just saying that 6,000 of the 10,386 unit holders have less than 10,000 units (i.e. they can be paid out completely if they choose)."

Thanks for the clarification, Dora. I had not understood exactly what you had said. Sorry.
As you say, the 37.75 Million divided among all of us (10,387) gives an average unit holding less than the minimum unit holding of 5000 units. And as you said that is not a reasonable outcome if what WC has said is true. So I concur with your conclusion.

If funding of the off market buy - back comes from asset realisations ie sale of assets this depletes the remaining unit holders asset base. The value of our units (45 cents) will not alter even if the whole 37,75 Million units are bought back. That leaves other payments and investments to be made from earnings. Looking better......

Mutchy

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Duped, You are right of course, it could take 3 years or even more to wind. - three years with no pay outs, and then? At least with WC one would have c. 18 cents (or more -but admitedly could equally be less) in those three years, and then what ever the units are worth.

Hi JohnH If a wind out was to take place The Am would have payouts over that 2 to 3 year period They don't store the money up & hand it out at the end all at once you get it in install ments i believe ///Dane

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Duped,
"A market that is being suppressed NOT be the media hyped so called 'Credit Squeeze'."
Are you trying to say that the Sub Prime problem in the USA is not creating a 'Credit Squeeze' throughout the world and in Australia???
Regards, RickH:couch

No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that suppression of the AU property market is driven by the RBA and not the 'Credit Squeeze'. The higher the banks etc demand for credit, the less the RBA needs to increase cash interest rates. The higher the price of oil etc, the less the RBA needs to put up cash rates. But at the end of the day, the end cost of credit is managed by the RBA (to keep inflation in the target band or whatever the reasons). The rates of e.g home mortgages etc are where they are because the RBA wants them that high, irrespective of whether the cash rate they set makes up 20% or 80% of that number. If AU gets to the point like happened in Japan where the central bank set the cash rate at next to zero, THEN we can say that the cost of credit in AU is determined by other forces, but we're a long way from that. Am I wrong?

Anyway, the higher the cost of credit, the better it is for PIF right? PIF is a lender. I'm just sick of hearing people blaming property fund's like PIF's woes on the surprise 'credit squeeze' when the real reason was the far more predictable. The writing was on the wall and the RBA painted it in big red lettering to cool the economy. There's growth everywhere. PIF is just unfortunately at the pointy end of the stick used to herd that growth.

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

What you so called "informed sophisticated" investors fail to realise is one very important basic ingredient in the JH / WC plan that will get her the vote. That most powerful ingredient is NECESSITY. You see it's all good for someone like great dame who trades mega shares per year and the like who want an orderly windup etc. You people have share portfolios and other means I am sure of deriving an income. That's great.

Most of the poor buggers in this fund have received nothing but a pittance from the govt, and that may have only been in the last month or two. These people need the cash, and now. They probably had most of their savings with MFS PIF, cruising along and now nothing. Along comes a company that sounds alright, puts on a nationwide roadshow and tells them they will get money twice this year, guaranteed before Xmas, no, ifs buts or maybes. Just in time to buy themselves and children / grandkids a little something after a real BAD year. Then money paid quaterly, what do they care if that is capital or income, it's MONEY!

I know who I would have my money on getting the vote next month. I mean you have to convince a lot of these type of people to vote by 75% to number one change a constitution to allow you to go beyond having to liquidate the fund prior to the 365 day frozen redemption period. Then you have to get 50% of these people to vote for another RE, that someone has plucked from who knows where with problably NO experience in managing a fund in this type of mess competently.

Now please, get real, you are trying to scale Mt. Everest twice over. You have got buckleys! Accept the fate that WC will get a yes vote for options 1 & 2 and hopefully these poor folk are guided to vote NO for option 3.

Give Hutson and co a go, she has got to be better than the last mob that ripped us blind. She will have that much scrutiny now, I doubt very much she will do anything untoward, plus the woman has a huge ego, why would she want to do anything but succeed to say "see I told ya so".

 

[kanni]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Everyone has lost a portion of their wealth with this mongrel company, and whether its 5% or 100%, we are all hurting. Some of the posts I read intimate they have learned a great deal out of the collapse of MFS. But I don't think we're in a position to apply any of that learning. We are in a place with virtually no choice. My goal right now is to get as much of my money back as I can--who knows if I wouldn't be better off getting the .14c in $, cutting my losses then buying something else that will give me an income. Or maybe, JH & WC will multiply what little there is left.....not everyone in the finance industry is a bumhole. I guess my task will be to make the best of what the vote brings--and each person's ability to do this will depend on how many other resources they have working for them. Sept 18 can't come soon enough for me.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all just got off the phone from Wellington I asked again about the voting The lady informs me they want all the votes posted in by the 16Th said there will be no counting of votes handed in at the meeting She said it says all this on the voting papers I though one could vote at the meeting ???? Dane ////

 

[newwwtrader]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

What you so called "informed sophisticated" investors fail to realise is one very important basic ingredient in the JH / WC plan that will get her the vote. That most powerful ingredient is NECESSITY. You see it's all good for someone like great dame who trades mega shares per year and the like who want an orderly windup etc. You people have share portfolios and other means I am sure of deriving an income. That's great.

Most of the poor buggers in this fund have received nothing but a pittance from the govt, and that may have only been in the last month or two. These people need the cash, and now. They probably had most of their savings with MFS PIF, cruising along and now nothing. Along comes a company that sounds alright, puts on a nationwide roadshow and tells them they will get money twice this year, guaranteed before Xmas, no, ifs buts or maybes. Just in time to buy themselves and children / grandkids a little something after a real BAD year. Then money paid quaterly, what do they care if that is capital or income, it's MONEY!

I know who I would have my money on getting the vote next month. I mean you have to convince a lot of these type of people to vote by 75% to number one change a constitution to allow you to go beyond having to liquidate the fund prior to the 365 day frozen redemption period. Then you have to get 50% of these people to vote for another RE, that someone has plucked from who knows where with problably NO experience in managing a fund in this type of mess competently.

Now please, get real, you are trying to scale Mt. Everest twice over. You have got buckleys! Accept the fate that WC will get a yes vote for options 1 & 2 and hopefully these poor folk are guided to vote NO for option 3.

Give Hutson and co a go, she has got to be better than the last mob that ripped us blind. She will have that much scrutiny now, I doubt very much she will do anything untoward, plus the woman has a huge ego, why would she want to do anything but succeed to say "see I told ya so".

I think there are two completely different things. WC being the RE is one thing, they more than likely will be better than the previous RE. If it was simply a matter of WC being the RE, I dont think there would be any debate.

The contentious aspect is the constitutional changes, which will change the nature of the PIF forever. It would go from a fund with redemptions. To something where you are at the mercy of the traders on the NSX. There is absolutely no certainty.

Even if the PIF is able to return value and increase the NTA, there is still no certainty when it comes time to exiting (selling on the NSX).

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi breaker1,
General Advice only:
I would hope that we have learnt to not put all of our eggs into the one basket but that does not appear to be the case because now it appears that you want to put all of your money into the rental property market.
Please remember that the property market does not always return a profit.
Please remember that we have had a major share market correction.
Question: Do you think the Share market will recover? Is it a good time to sell? Is it a good time to buy?
Please note: Property markets have crashed after previous share market crashes within 12 to 36 months and have then taken years to recover.
Question: Is it a good time to sell? Is it a good time to buy?

Create reasonable guidelines, Example:
1) Do not invest more than 50% of your money into any one investment.
2) Do not invest more than 20% into the one managed fund.
3) Do not invest more than 10% into one Blue Chip company listed on ASX.
4) Do not invest more than 5% total into a high risk investments.
5) Calculate a risk strategy for every investment.
6) Always complete a budget and know what you need.
7) Find an adviser who will help you to achieve your goals and minise the risk to your desired lifestyle.
Regards, Rick:couch

1] Hello RichH,

I can see where your comin from and predictable.

If investors took my humble advice to "Put your money into rental business real estate, split rental homes, gold, silver, blocks of land, at-call safe bank interest, anything where you've got control of your money..." investment advisers like yourself might be out of business. Heh! Heh!

I've got very good friend who's a real estate agent who assures me that I should have put my money in any number of real estate business rentals and got a decent income and had near full control of my investment. To bad I hadn't connected with him again till after the PIF debacle.

Your advice not to put all eggs in one basket is off course very wise.

2] Business article: "Maurice Blackburn has warned Octaviar that it faces a potential $A80 million class action from former and current Octaviar/MFS shareholders"

 

[zixo]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all,

I'm collating a list of Politicians who any investor or Ag member may have written to and the kind of response they have received from them..if they have.

If you're interested in adding your federal members name, albeit good or bad, can you e-mail me at.
zixo7@hotmail.com

cheers

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

How to get Politician's attention:
http://www.efa.org.au/Campaigns/lobby.html

List of Members by Electorate:
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/mi-elctr.asp

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all just got off the phone from Wellington I asked again about the voting The lady informs me they want all the votes posted in by the 16Th said there will be no counting of votes handed in at the meeting She said it says all this on the voting papers I though one could vote at the meeting ???? Dane ////

Hi GD,
Thanks for the info. I didn't realise you couldn't vote at the meeting. Page 7 of the EM says:
Unitholders can vote by:
returning a proxy form; or
voting at the meeting.

It's so annoying talking to WC, you end up with more questions after the conversation than you had before. Anyone know what's going on?

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi GD,
Thanks for the info. I didn't realise you couldn't vote at the meeting. Page 7 of the EM says:
Unitholders can vote by:
returning a proxy form; or
voting at the meeting.

It's so annoying talking to WC, you end up with more questions after the conversation than you had before. Anyone know what's going on?

I am only repeating what the lady told me Dora on the phone Sometimes i think WC staff dont know how to answer the questains we give them The lady said WC want to know the outcome of the voting before the meeting starts //Dane //

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I still don’t know how I will vote but if we get a good reason for a lot of us to vote No then we’ll need to make sure our votes don’t get ‘lost in the mail’ or arrive at say 10:01 on the 16th Sept.

When JH and CS proposed a GM to have CS appointed to the board of MFS they had two proxy forms. One was pre-completed (saying Yes for CS to be director of company) and this form recommended people who used that form to send it to Wellington Capital instead of MFS. Wellington then arranged for the proxy forms to be provided to MFS. It required the forms be in to WC a day earlier but at least you know it would get there. I’m pretty sure that due to the number of pre completed forms received by WC that the GM didn’t even go ahead and the proposed changes went ahead at the board’s approval. You can see all of this by viewing the OCV company announcements on the ASX web site http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/announcementSearch.do

Can anyone let us know if there is anything unusual in the text under “Step 1” on the yellow proxy form? There is a lot of info there that is a little hard to read. I think that if people don’t fill in their forms properly that the chairman who may have an interest in the vote will vote ‘for’ the resolutions. We still need to know if you can turn up on the day with your yellow proxy form and vote that way.

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I still don’t know how I will vote but if we get a good reason for a lot of us to vote No then we’ll need to make sure our votes don’t get ‘lost in the mail’ or arrive at say 10:01 on the 16th Sept.

When JH and CS proposed a GM to have CS appointed to the board of MFS they had two proxy forms. One was pre-completed (saying Yes for CS to be director of company) and this form recommended people who used that form to send it to Wellington Capital instead of MFS. Wellington then arranged for the proxy forms to be provided to MFS. It required the forms be in to WC a day earlier but at least you know it would get there. I’m pretty sure that due to the number of pre completed forms received by WC that the GM didn’t even go ahead and the proposed changes went ahead at the board’s approval. You can see all of this by viewing the OCV company announcements on the ASX web site http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/announcementSearch.do

Can anyone let us know if there is anything unusual in the text under “Step 1” on the yellow proxy form? There is a lot of info there that is a little hard to read. I think that if people don’t fill in their forms properly that the chairman who may have an interest in the vote will vote ‘for’ the resolutions. We still need to know if you can turn up on the day with your yellow proxy form and vote that way.

Good morning all...the time is nearly here....finally...and soon we will all know how much money we have left from our initial investment of $1 per unit...
I have read many things over the last month or so on here...some good ...some bad...
This is the conclusion I have reached.....
My vote will be....1) yes 2) yes 3) no
I am not totally happy with JH and WC but of all the things I have read on here....NO ONE has proposed any substancial alternatives to JH and WC....
Cheers Sugar...

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

How about we push for a No vote for the buy back resolution and then put forward our own resolution where there is a buy back at whatever the NTA is at the time of the buy back. Surely that is better than having to decide now that 45 cents is a fair price for our units at the time the buy back will take place. I’m certain this is undervalued and for those who want to tell me that the value could drop below 45 cents then surely in that case you would also prefer the NTA were used in a buy back situation (unless you have less than 10,000 units).

 

[Wolfgang]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi DoraNBoots

How long is it before Jenny Hutson replies to the emails, I have been waiting 5 days on a reply to sum questions I need before I put my vote in?

Wolfgang

 

[The Mint Man]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi people,
This popped up in the news section in comsec yesterday, however it is quite vague.... can anyone shead a bit more light on this one???

Octaviar feels the heat from lawyers

Date: 25/8/2008
Author: Ben Wilmot
Source: The Australian Financial Review --- Page: 57

Maurice Blackburn has warned Octaviar that it faces a potential $A80 millionclass action from former and current Octaviar/MFS shareholders

who is leading the class action???

Cheers

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi DoraNBoots

How long is it before Jenny Hutson replies to the emails, I have been waiting 5 days on a reply to sum questions I need before I put my vote in?

Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang,
I think you should try calling them. You will most likely get a machine but leave a message and they should call you back the same day. I have sent a few emails with questions to the general email address and have never had a reply.

Hi people,
This popped up in the news section in comsec yesterday, however it is quite vague.... can anyone shead a bit more light on this one???



who is leading the class action???

Cheers

Hi Mint Man,
Most of us are not MFS shareholders just PIF unitholders, not sure if we'll be able to answer your question.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

How about we push for a No vote for the buy back resolution and then put forward our own resolution where there is a buy back at whatever the NTA is at the time of the buy back. Surely that is better than having to decide now that 45 cents is a fair price for our units at the time the buy back will take place. I’m certain this is undervalued and for those who want to tell me that the value could drop below 45 cents then surely in that case you would also prefer the NTA were used in a buy back situation (unless you have less than 10,000 units).

Dora my friend what ever we get will only be a short term gain I feel that 6 cents is the carrot which really cant be sustained out of NTA of 45 cents 3.5 cents would be a closer number The big thing that concerned me that there will never be a redemption to get our money back in the future .Its a short term gain for a long term loss /Dane ///

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi DoraNBoots

How long is it before Jenny Hutson replies to the emails, I have been waiting 5 days on a reply to sum questions I need before I put my vote in?

Wolfgang

I waited 2 weeks /Dane //