Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

flatback said:

Javier lets you and i get something straight here once and for all, there isn't and never was a concrete cast in stone statement made by JH that we would have the ability to redeem our units via the ASX, now haveing said that, because you are so sure of this, why cant JH come out and say to us the unit holders, this is what i propose to do once we become liquid again,to put all of our minds at rest.(If she does this i will be the first to vote her way)
As for the audit which is still ongoing, i will use a very simple analogy, if i was going to buy a car and i was not mechanicaly minded, i would have to rely upon someone to evaluate (AUDIT) the car for me, and i would have rocks in my head if i didn't. NOBODY from our group or for that matter anybody else,has been privy to the outcome of such audit, (i know its not finished) my point is in the analogy used.
Still angry flatback

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There must have been some reference made to a possible future listing on the ASX at the Melbourne Investor Forum, refer Rocky1 post 792 "ASX may become an alternative vehicle further down the track", and Splitpins' post 911, JH "indicated a vision of NSX then maybe ASX", so the JH has obviously mentioned a possible future ASX listing at 2 of the investor forums. Seamisty:run:

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

Our units will be slaughtered when they are listed on the NSX ////

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Great Doom
Please do not lead the charge to the slaughter! Don't be a lemming... Remember the Light Brigade at Balaclava... There were guns to the left of them, guns to the right of them... but valiantly the 600 rode on into the valley of ...... (my sensibility prevents me from uttering that grim word.)

Rance :headshake

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Javier said:

Nothing at this point, apart from NSX is set in stone. Think about it..why should she tell us what her exact plans are. I am sure she will, but we haven't even voted for her yet. You have to be patient. Things sometimes turn ugly very quickly, but take a long time to restore to normality. One step at a time. We all want a quick fix and all the answers now. Hopefully we will see that restoration, but that is a while away.

She is not just going to take this on without a long term committed strategy to make this a mutually successful venture, to tear her reputation to shreds. Of course she believes she can turn it around, or else she would not bother. I guess in life we have to sometimes take a leap of faith, what do you have to lose at this point in time??

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I agree with your statement that she has a long term strategy,i have written this in the past on this forum, but what i cannot go along with, the RE believes that unit holders will not be effected by this change. most of the people who purchased units in this fund did so knowing that they always had a redemption clause in the constitution to enable them to exit the fund, in my view this certainly will have adverse effects on unit holders,i do not want to see this clause removed but ammended.
The Constitution may be amended:
by the responsible entity, where the responsible entity reasonably believes that the rights of
Unitholders would not be adversely affected by the amendment; or
unless otherwise stated, by special resolution of Unitholders.
The responsible entity is proposing a resolution of Unitholders to amend the Constitution.
A summary of the proposed amendments to the Constitution is set out below.
Existing Constitution Proposed Constitution
Withdrawal
Unitholders are currently entitled to
withdraw from the Fund by lodging a
redemption request at the conclusion of their
investment term.
Unitholders will not be able to withdraw from the
Fund, other than by sale of their units or through a
limited buy-back arrangement when proposed by the
responsible entity. on top of that there are supposed to be three(3) resolutions to the constitution, but resolution one (1)clearly has eight (8) clauses built into it, which in my view should be presented as (8) seperate clauses, the others 2 an 3 are single resolutions and they speak for themselves Javier something doesn'tadd up here.Flatback

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

There must have been some reference made to a possible future listing on the ASX at the Melbourne Investor Forum, refer Rocky1 post 792 "ASX may become an alternative vehicle further down the track", and Splitpins' post 911, JH "indicated a vision of NSX then maybe ASX", so the JH has obviously mentioned a possible future ASX listing at 2 of the investor forums. Seamisty:run:

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thank you Seamisty,i stand corrected, it may have been mentioned, but i have not seen her put such a proposal to us on paper and until it is, its all words. Flatback

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

There must have been some reference made to a possible future listing on the ASX at the Melbourne Investor Forum, refer Rocky1 post 792 "ASX may become an alternative vehicle further down the track", and Splitpins' post 911, JH "indicated a vision of NSX then maybe ASX", so the JH has obviously mentioned a possible future ASX listing at 2 of the investor forums. Seamisty:run:

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JH mentions ASX on the DVD as follows:
1hr 34 mins: JH explains why the NSX and not the ASX
2hr 05mins: Unit holder asks how we might redeem our units in the future as he is not interested in the NSX. JH indicates the ASX is an option

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:

JH mentions ASX on the DVD as follows:
1hr 34 mins: JH explains why the NSX and not the ASX
2hr 05mins: Unit holder asks how we might redeem our units in the future as he is not interested in the NSX. JH indicates the ASX is an option

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Thanks DoraNBoots. I still haven't had time to watch the DVD. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:

JH mentions ASX on the DVD as follows:
1hr 34 mins: JH explains why the NSX and not the ASX
2hr 05mins: Unit holder asks how we might redeem our units in the future as he is not interested in the NSX. JH indicates the ASX is an option

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get real doranboots,please do not kiss up to each other agreeing for the sake of agreeing. i dont care if the inference was made (the intention was not)
this is still not an option unless this woman puts pen to paper, the pair of you can do all the research in the world ,re newspaper reports etc,etc,etc but until this RE and their leader actually writes her intentions into the constitution, or asks for our vote on that issue in the constitution, you are wasting your time, i will take a leaf out of magoo's book here and state that it will never happen, without the reference in the constitution upon which we shall vote.Flatback

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

flatback said:

get real doranboots,please do not kiss up to each other agreeing for the sake of agreeing. i dont care if the inference was made (the intention was not)
this is still not an option unless this woman puts pen to paper, the pair of you can do all the research in the world ,re newspaper reports etc,etc,etc but until this RE and their leader actually writes her intentions into the constitution, or asks for our vote on that issue in the constitution, you are wasting your time, i will take a leaf out of magoo's book here and state that it will never happen, without the reference in the constitution upon which we shall vote.Flatback

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Hi Flatback,

You have misunderstood my post. All I am doing it telling people where they can find JH commenting on the ASX. If people watch the DVD they will see JH is making no promises at all. I am certainly not backing up Javier's comments!

Re Explanatory Memorandum !!!!!

Hi all, Good on you Flatback and Dora, you are both right on the money.
Lots to say about this document !!!!!!! Conspiracy theories ?? Paranoia????
Good to see JH is sharing in the paranoia !!!(re changes to constituion on quorums and fees on being removed!!!!!). To go through the difficult process of removing WC as RE (as they propose), then obviously they are would be performing really badly, and then to demand a huge exit fee !!! My god,who gets the sack for bad performance and then gets a bonus !!!!! what a joke.
Also why change RE to Wellington Capital - no responsiblity there for past crimes !!!!!! They say to "simplify operating arrangements" what crap, its the same people doing the same jobs, why not do this in the first place if that was the case !! BEWARE !!! This has all been planned long ago.
I'm only a layman who works in the area of accounting - to see an entity present financial statements to the public THAT ARE UN-AUDITED and then prepare your own notes to those statements - what a joke !!! 333Capital used to determine the estimated realisable value of the funds assets - same company Octaviar paid $10-15mil (in a matter of weeks) to formulate their strategies - where's the independant valuations and estimates. What a load of crap.
Funniest part was the "Background Information" - hey no details on what happened between Sept.2004 and May 2008 hmmmmmmmmmm.
Also funny is the idea of "Investor Advisory Committee" ha ha ha ha - look how much interest they've paid to unitholders so far !!! Hey and what about the Complaints Dept. - another way of saying "the person in charge of the shredder". Have WC given enough proof yet of whose interests their working for !!!!!
This document and what their proposing only serves to protect WC's big fat bum !!!! How about the section "Historical arrangements with MFS" stating "investigations indicate the fund may not have the expected priorty on loans" and "further litigation would involve significant costs to the fund". In other words, the initial steps taken to lauch legal action for compensation was a really good show and we didn't really mean it.
I had the feeling JH was putting a gun to our heads in July, now I feel like that gun is right up my left nostril and WC's fingers on the trigger. Well F..... them !!!! Now is the time to fight back !!!
Hey you guys that are doing all the leg work and long hours on our behalf......thank you so much, if anyone deserves a bonus it's you guys......but could you please get some legal advice on this document. We need to hold a unitholders meeting before the EGM to make our own changes to the constitution. Amendment to include the buy back scheme proposed by WC to help those really in need, and perhaps amendment to extend the redemption freeze period sufficiently to allow an independant administrator to be appointed. I don't know but we've got to do something urgently before the voting is finalised.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Just another thought (sorry I could go on all night - but I won't), under the proposed "buy back scheme", who is actually buying and subsequently owning the units bought back. Is it Wellington IM, to then be handed over to Wellington Capital, or are they to be bought back buy all unitholders ????
I distinctly recall JH mentioning in her roadshow that Wellington would not have any investment in the fund as that would be a conflict of interest !!!
Also, does anyone know who the shareholders of Wellington Capital are ??? I recall some mention somewhere of Chris Scott investing the intial capital to start the company hmmmmmmmm........Will there be more buy backs offered in the future ???????
Come on guys, we've all got to wake up and get moving. These guys are continuing to screw us and lets face it, it's really expensive sex (and not very satisfying!!!!!!!)

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:

Hi Flatback,

You have misunderstood my post. All I am doing it telling people where they can find JH commenting on the ASX. If people watch the DVD they will see JH is making no promises at all. I am certainly not backing up Javier's comments!

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DoraNBoots, I personally was under no illusion you were backing up Javier, I just knew I had seen reference to the ASX listing previously on more than one occasion. As for the buyback scheme, I can only assume it is WC's way of making it easier for those that find it necessary to exit the fund a guaranteed way of maximising their return on their units without the hassle of listing on the NSX and taking a lesser NTA on the day. Also this way, the remaining unit holders have the opportunity of sharing in future upside in unit value by partaking in the increase of value once the unit no. is decreased. After reading the three voting options, I have also decided that it will not be to unit holder detriment to NOT vote for the 3rd option. At this point in time I personally will not vote for WCL for RE, that way the fund keeps going but it won't cost us 2% if JH doesn't work out and we need to change the RE. This is my personal opinion only. Regards, Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Seamisty...do you agree with what Burnt has said? and if so what do you think we can do?.....I agree with every thing he has said...regards Gaz

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

You will get it back quicker if you read DoreNboots posts Dora puts words together better then me The Dame //

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That 45 cents buy back up to 10000 units now proves that 14 cents is wrong on liquidation its 45 cents and WC must know that I feel its just one BIG scare tatic they are using on us poor soles The Dame //

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

RickH, as a financial planner you would be more familiar with PDSs and constitutions than us investors. How does the New PIF compare to equivalent, competing funds. I expect the clauses about PIF pays legal costs are fairly standard. Can you confirm this? Or have I misunderstood the role of financial planners?

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Can any unsatisfied unit holders that have financial advisers please ask your financial advisers to explain the alternate options to you. Page 6 of the Memorandum states “Unitholders have a right under the Constitution to call a general meeting and consider other alternatives.” Don’t let your financial adviser just tell you how to vote. Ask them to explain the alternate option of a moratorium and how we could go about achieving it should this suit you better than the current proposal.

Burnt said:

… under the proposed "buy back scheme", the is actually buying and subsequently owning the units bought back. Is it Wellington IM, to then be handed over to Wellington Capital, or are they to be bought back buy all unitholders ????
I distinctly recall JH mentioning in her roadshow that Wellington would not have any investment in the fund as that would be a conflict of interest !!!
…

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Great info Burnt! Thanks for your posts!

Good question regarding the buy back proposal. This proposal is lacking in detail and I don’t see how we are expected to vote on something with such little detail. The memorandum says “the off market buy-back is to be funded through asset realisations.” Would there then be less units in the fund or if they remain who will own them? If it’s funded by the fund (us) then it would have to be that there would be less units in the fund. I find it bad form on WCs part to offer to pay us out 45 cents when we are yet to see independent audited unit\asset valuations. Do they really expect us to vote with such little detail??

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Winging Dame here again I am surprised none of you good people have not picked up on the proxy voting they are to be returned to Wellington for counting Now i really think that is wrong for them to do the counting They will know what each unit holder name & what they are voting for And if they don't like whats on the proxy vote Well i will leave that up to you Remember staff want to keep there jobs It should be counted by outsiders The Dame //

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

That 45 cents buy back up to 10000 units now proves that 14 cents is wrong on liquidation its 45 cents and WC must know that I feel its just one BIG scare tatic they are using on us poor soles The Dame //

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IF WC get the vote to continue as RE it will not be buying back 5% of units valued at the estimated liquidation price of 14cents, it will be buying 5% of units that are part of a going concern with the current estimated value of 45cents. For all those poor SOULS that have been making predictions of 10-20cents per unit when listed on the NSX (and I have no doubt that initially that will probably be correct), 45cents is a fair offer for those who don't want to wait for future upside with a 6 cent annual distribution and don't want to list on the NSX. For the rest of PIF holders who do not want WC as RE, and think that there is a better alternative,get yourselves together, do something about it and stop whinging!!!! I personally, as stated many times previously, am quite prepared to give WC the chance to demonstrate what they are capable of. If and when the time comes that WC prove totally useless,I am sure action will be taken to make other arrangements. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This from today's Australian
---------------------------------

Mirage resort sale comes into focus

by Fiona Cameron | August 20, 2008

IT was too good to be true for 1980s entrepreneur Christopher Skase, and now the Mirage resort at Port Douglas is slipping from the grasp of another high-flying corporate cot case.

Octaviar has appointed agency Jones Lang LaSalle Hotels to find a buyer for the Mirage resort at Port Douglas and its adjoining development land, after sale attempts fell through earlier this year.

Asked if $60-$70 million was a likely sale price, as suggested by market sources, agent Wayne Bunz said the vendor would be "disappointed if that was all they got". "It would cost three times that to reproduce it," he said.

But the vendor was prepared to meet the market. Octaviar -- then known as MFS Ltd -- paid $72.5 million for the resort in May 2005.

Octaviar has been selling assets since it struck financial trouble in January and has since been besieged by claims from creditors seeking hundreds of millions of dollars.

Octaviar has sold a 65 per cent stake in its main asset, the Stella tourism conglomerate, and two satellite companies have separated themselves from the parent.

Mr Bunz said that although the Mirage was due for refurbishment, it still drew higher-than-average room rates -- $263 per night -- than its main competitor, the nearby Sea Temple resort.

The resort would be sold with a management agreement in place with Starwood Hotels and Resorts, which operates the hotel under the Sheraton brand.

The Mirage resort was one of two -- the other is at Southport on the Gold Coast -- developed in 1987 by entrepreneur Skase's now-defunct and discredited Qintex group.

Expressions of interest for the resort will close on September 25, although the agents say they are prepared to sell it earlier.

Of the 150 housing lots included in the offering, about half face onto Four Mile Beach.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The buyback is limited to 5% of the units. So WC is only risking $17M of the fund walking out the door if the buyback is fully subscribed.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

The buyback is limited to 5% of the units. So WC is only risking $17M of the fund walking out the door if the buyback is fully subscribed.

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Duped, I wouldn't say that the $17mill of PIF's income used to buyback the 5% of shares will be walking out the door, in my opinion it will strengthen the value of the remaining units in the Fund. It will also give hardship cases access to some money. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

IF WC get the vote to continue as RE it will not be buying back 5% of units valued at the estimated liquidation price of cents, it will be buying 5% of units that are part of a going concern with the current estimated value of cents. For all those poor SOULS that have been making predictions of 10-cents per unit when listed on the NSX (and I have no doubt that initially that will probably be correct), cents is a fair offer for those who don't want to wait for future upside with a 6 cent annual distribution and don't want to list on the NSX. For the rest of PIF holders who do not want WC as RE, and think that there is a better alternative,get yourselves together, do something about it and stop whinging!!!! I personally, as stated many times previously, am quite prepared to give WC the chance to demonstrate what they are capable of. If and when the time comes that WC prove totally useless,I am sure action will be taken to make other arrangements. Seamisty

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Seamisty can you say in all honstley that it is only worth omly 14 cents if iquidationed well i dont agree with you JH is telling Centerlink it is worth 45 cents on market value And we all know just what market value is dont we The Dame //