Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

seamisty · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

sugar3157 said:
Hi Seamisty...are you or someone else going to give JH a call this morning to see what is happening with our fund....no info from the powers that be...is frustrating...regards sugar

I am just a unit holder ame as you sugar, why don't you call them yourself? I e-mail any queries I have and they call me when the have time to answer. Every unit holder has the same right to do this, it is just that some of us take the time to relay the info to others. Seamisty

DoraNBoots · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:
Page 52 of the PIF Annual Report 2007
MFS Administration Pty Ltd held 60,000,000 units. 6.82% of the fund.

From what JH said it looks like MFS Admin got them out in time. Where did the money come from and where did it go? I'm guessing the 60M units were bought just to jack up the numbers. (Or perhaps to avoid a default!!!!) Look at the chart in the June investor update. (See http://www.octaviar.com.au/managed-funds/investorupdates.html) There's a nice fat little spike in $ (read units) in June 07 that cuts through the ugly flat line of the preceding 6 months. Looks like a jump of $60M doesn't it. Hmmmm.

Duped said:
I wonder if the 60M units held by MFS Management Ltd were express units.

(I know I'm repeating myself but I'm sick of hearing a reason for the PIF's woes being the large number of withdrawals. The fund dropped from 880M to the 755M after 30Jun07. Nearly half of that was MFS Management whipping out their 60M. I.e. 6.8% of the fund.)

BTW there currently ARE different classes of units. Some paid 7.5%; others 9%.

Hi Duped,
The PDS and constitution would have allowed MFS to choose any distribution entitlement right (different target rate of return) and would have allowed them to get out of the fund with 24 hrs notice. They could also have had any of the fees waived. I've no doubt they took full advantage of all these clauses. wonder what rate of return they decided to give themselves!

Can you tell me if the documents you refer to in the first quote above are still online as I can't find them and would like to take a look.

Thanks!

keld · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Here's a question for the many investment and legal experts on this thread. Can anyone apply the expertise to this one? My PIF investment matured in Feb this year, after redemptions had been first frozen 180 days on 29 January. I had applied for full redemption on 19 December, but was notified that they couldn't repay ebcause of freeze. Where do I stand? Do I have any grounds for recovering funds as I had appleid before the freeze. I have emails from OCtaviar/MFS acknowledging my withdrawal request from Dec 07 and january 08.

Mary Lynch · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Keld, I asked one of the Wellington C.reps at the forum in Melbourne to get back to me on a similar issue .....but my redemption form had been in in early November and was due on 21st of January, BEFORE the freeze. because the money never gets into your account until the 31st of the month....it missed out.

They tried to lure me into staying by offering me a bonus to stay on!

The rep said she would get back to me, but never did!

keld · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Mary. Sounds like you would have an even stronger claim than me. Did you get any legal advice on where you stand?

DoraNBoots · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Keld,

I’m certainly no expert but I think I can answer your question. The PIFs constitution was changed in June 07 in a way that meant all redemptions were to be due on the last day of each month. So if you entered the fund on January 3rd 2007 for a 12 month term your redemption date would have been January 31st 2008. Keld, I believe your redemption date would have been Feb 29 2008, did your paper work not reflect this? As you know the fund was frozen at that point. It makes no difference when your forms go in. As mentioned previously if you were applying for an early redemption, I’m certain you would have been refused if you didn’t have a really really strong hardship case.

For details on this change to the constitution see http://www.newpif.com.au/constitution/c2_constitution.pdf

This to me means that the only investors that could have got out of the fund during the month of January 2008 would have been express unit holders. I have asked WC to check if this was the case and they will get back to me in a few days. I’ll keep you posted.

goldfinger38 · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

breaker1 said:
G'days folks,

I just (Friday) received an email from a PIF AG member stating:

"I have just received in today's mail an Issuer Sponsored Holding Statement as at 11th august regarding the LISTING OF PIF ON THE NATIONAL STOCK EXCHANGE as of 19th September 2008!!! Can we sack Wellington?"

Has any other PIF investor received one of these letters?

It sounds like Jenny is more confident then ever as the 19th is only one day after the RE vote, the 18th Sep.

HI,

I got this letter today and rang PIF to confirm, this is simply a change of registry for our investment details from Perpetual to Computershare, so Perpetual no longer look after the investment records.

This would be in preparation of any potential listing be it on the NSX or the ASX. I didnt see any mention of a date for the 19th September 2008 on the letters though. So nothing is set in concrete yet as we are still to have our vote on September 18th.

They did mention the information memorandum is being sent out this week to all Unitholders with the voting paper so we should know the content by end of week hopefully.

I was told just to check the name . address and unitholding details on the issuer sponsored statement to ensure they were correct, otherwise no action required at this stage.

Rance · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SPLITPIN said:
Rance

I am not a lawyer, are you??

If you are not a lawyer, your comments must be only your views and may be incorrect.

If you are a lawyer it must be a legal opinion.

So cut out the personal stuff, stick to the RE querie please.

Regards

Splitpin

Hi Splitpin

No, I'm not a lawyer and therefore my answer is a personal opinion.... but I still believe it is correct in relation to the queries raised in your posting. So we must agree to disagree on that one.

The personal stuff... well, let's laugh it off and leave it at that.

Cheers
Rance

Rance · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel said:
You are absolutely correct Dora

I have all ready contacted Maurice Blackburn & Cash and IMF and the case is being evaluated at this moment in time .

Rance perhaps you would like to join in the action. ?

Love to join you Jadel, but short of funds at present... no prizes for guessing why!

Rance

Rance · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Does anyone know whether the NSW Bookmakers Superannuation Fund withdrew their express units before the freeze?

I'd expect they would have had a large share of units in the fund. If they still have, their position in regard to WC/RE would be of interest.

Rance

Rance · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

goldfinger38 said:
I didnt see any mention of a date for the 19th September 2008 on the letters though. So nothing is set in concrete yet as we are still to have our vote on September 18th.

In the fine print under 'Please Note' on the Holding Statement you will find the following:"....The anticipated date for the trading of securities to commence on National Stock Exchange is 19 September 2008."

Difficult to criticize that for pre-planning!

Rance

Duped · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
Hi Duped,
The PDS and constitution would have allowed MFS to choose any distribution entitlement right (different target rate of return) and would have allowed them to get out of the fund with 24 hrs notice. They could also have had any of the fees waived. I've no doubt they took full advantage of all these clauses. wonder what rate of return they decided to give themselves!

Can you tell me if the documents you refer to in the first quote above are still online as I can't find them and would like to take a look.

Thanks!

Chart is on page 1 of the June 07 update at http://www.newpif.com.au/pifreports/pif_InvestorUpdate200706.pdf

Attached is page 52 of the PIF 2007 annual report. Full doc is over the size limit. I'll try compressing it.

BABIHUTAN · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

goldfinger38 said:
HI,

I got this letter today and rang PIF to confirm, this is simply a change of registry for our investment details from Perpetual to Computershare, so Perpetual no longer look after the investment records.

This would be in preparation of any potential listing be it on the NSX or the ASX. I didnt see any mention of a date for the 19th September 2008 on the letters though. So nothing is set in concrete yet as we are still to have our vote on September 18th.

They did mention the information memorandum is being sent out this week to all Unitholders with the voting paper so we should know the content by end of week hopefully.

I was told just to check the name . address and unitholding details on the issuer sponsored statement to ensure they were correct, otherwise no action required at this stage.

I am overseas and mail is held by Oz Post so I will not see any paperwork with which to vote cum Sept. Does anyone know if WC will hv equivalent info online for those in my situation?
Tks in advance Owen

goldfinger38 · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance said:
In the fine print under 'Please Note' on the Holding Statement you will find the following:"....The anticipated date for the trading of securities to commence on National Stock Exchange is 19 September 2008."

Difficult to criticize that for pre-planning!

Rance

Thanks for that, had to get the glasses out to read that one LOL so yes anticipated date for NSX listing is the day after the general meeting, will be interesting to see the content of the information memorandum in next few days then.

seamisty · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

BABIHUTAN said:
I am overseas and mail is held by Oz Post so I will not see any paperwork with which to vote cum Sept. Does anyone know if WC will hv equivalent info online for those in my situation?
Tks in advance Owen

I'm pretty sure I was told that you can vote on line once the info is posted on newpif website. Seamisty

Duped · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
Hi Duped,
The PDS and constitution would have allowed MFS to choose any distribution entitlement right (different target rate of return) and would have allowed them to get out of the fund with 24 hrs notice. They could also have had any of the fees waived. I've no doubt they took full advantage of all these clauses. wonder what rate of return they decided to give themselves!

Can you tell me if the documents you refer to in the first quote above are still online as I can't find them and would like to take a look.

Thanks!

The Courier Mail article of 8 July reported "Wellington has found the units were redeemed on September 9 on proper terms".
http://www.newpif.com.au/articles/CM_8july2008.pdf

DoraNBoots · 18 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks for all those articles Duped.

So if my calulations are correct (and it's possible they are way off) I'm surprised to see no conspiray here. It looks to me like the $60 mill went in on the 30th June 2007. I am basing this on the fact they only got paid $17,753 in distributions that period. This equates to 10.5% pa if it was only in for one day. If the $60 mill had gone in say on the 29th June the rate of return would have been too low. (Looks like the WPIF has an average of 10.5% as well)

Javier · 19 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I could not attach the 80 page Explanatory Memo as the file is too big for this forum, it will be up on the newpif website soon I believe.

Javier · 19 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It's now up on newpif website. Some of you will now go ballistic!!

DoraNBoots · 19 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Here are my comments and questions on the Explanatory Memorandum found here:
http://newpif.com.au/EGM08/Explanatory Memorandum.pdf

Seems like the management fee of .7% won’t be used to cover Wellington's costs. They estimate another .32% for expenses and another .2% for external managers etc.
They are proposing to buy back up to 37.73 mill units at .45 cents. We still don’t know they are only worth .45 cents.
The only option we have of getting out of the fund completely (if you have more than 10,000 units) is via NSX!
Quorum. They want to change the constitution to make it really hard for us to remove them. Looks like currently you only need 2 investors to call a resolution to remove the RE but they want to change it so that you need at least 4 unit holders holding 51% of the units in the fund!!! They also want to take a fee of 2% if they are removed by unit holders without their consent!!! They will liquidate assets if necessary to take this fee.
How come there was $15 mill cash at bank on 31st May 08. Didn't the RBOS require all cash?
333 Capital provided a value range for the funds assets, the directors then came up with the current valuations. Can we find out the value range 333 capital provided?
The competition section is interesting. I suppose this is normal to write that your competitors are more experienced etc?
Wellington IM want to retire and Wellington Capital want to be RE. Need to find out legal implications of this. Will this mean we can’t go after the RE that was responsible when our money was allegedly mismanaged?
Looks like the RE can pay for any litigation expenses out of the fund. Interesting!
Good to note the RE has PI and fraud insurance.
Even Perpetual can pay for it’s legal fees out of the fund – should the need arise.
Looks like WC are proposing to take $44.4 from OCV and forgive all!
The document says you can inspect the new constitution in their office. Hopefully they will also put a copy up on their website or send copies if requested.
Can anyone explains the ‘Handling fees’ mentioned.
Good to see they are being a bit more straight forward regarding other options
“Unit holders have the right under the Constitution to call a general meeting and consider other alternatives.”
(Interesting to note I was given completely different info from this a week ago from the hotline. They said we will be voting to liquidate and will not have a chance to call a general meeting to propose other changes!!! This is very annoying as some who may have wanted to prepare for this may not have due to this advise)

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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