Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[kitbee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hello Sugar3157, if you log onto the newpif site, which is pasted below.then click onto 'PREMIUM INCOME FUND' then 'INVESTMENT ALLOCATION' I am sure a lot you are seeking is there, listed as March 2008. Of course this is not updated but should be roughly about it. As you know JH has reduced the RBOS loan greatly, and it is also good to see some of our funds are still working and putting a few shekels into the piggy, notably the 43% of total funds, which conservatively relate to about $300mil at good returns. Trust this helps a little.



http://www.newpif.com.au/investorforumjuly.html

 

[kitbee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The next time you hear a mention of Mr Fitzgeralds (I do feel for him) name will more than likely be in a sitting of parliament with Gillard asking Nelson with words to the effect " What are you going to do about this poor.... blah .....blah .... under your AWA Scheme" This is media hype and irrelavent to the WPIF. His claim will more than likely go to a tribunal if necessary, methinks it will be settled well before that. Hopefull ASIC's sights are set a lot higher than this.

 

[kitbee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yeah, love 80's music. Chris D B sucked though..I like it a little louder. More like Metallica, Van Halen and Ozzy (most people here wouldn't know these bands). I just play my guitar to chill. I know I should just kick it back..just erks me that there is no logical reasoning to some comments. I know that noone here would really vote for the L word..they just stir, and I give it back..it's in my hard rock nature to.

Javier, Would be nice if you would pick up your guitar and a bottle of something and toodle around to JH's pad and see if you can knock a bit of Johnny CASH out of her. I'm off on holidays soon.

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

...How much money do you think you will get back via an orderly windup with an independant administrator once all the associated costs involved have been deducted? .... Some of the 'positive people' I know have been quietly working behind the scenes investigating other alternatives, some even getting legal advice at their own expense, and have still came to the same conclusion, listing on the NSX is nowhere near as financially detrimental as liquidation, orderly or otherwise. Regards, Seamisty

Hey Seamisty,
I answered your question now it is your turn to tell us the details of the quiet investigations taking place behind the scenes regarding liquidation. Hoping you provide conclusions and facts which back them up.

 

[Bumblebee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This is from the Gold Coast Bulletin Aug 9th. I have highlighted the relative PIF bit.

Nick Nichols
August 9th, 2008
OCTAVIAR appears to be winning over small creditors in its bid to stay alive.
The embattled financial services company, formerly MFS, said it had received early support from note-holders on a payout offer which it has extended to all creditors, who are owed a total of $1 billion.
Octaviar owes $351 million on its listed notes and has offered a 22.5c-in-the-dollar payout on all sums above $5000 owed to about 560 noteholders.
It has agreed to pay the first $5000 in full, triggering a rush by smaller noteholders to accept.
Octaviar has received 184 voting forms since it made its offer three weeks ago, with more than 95 per cent by number accepting the offer.
Of the votes received, it said, 88 per cent by value had accepted.
"While the responses are more than a third of the total noteholders by number, the 20 largest holders account for more than 85 per cent by value," said Octaviar company secretary David Anderson in a statement to the Australian Securities Exchange last night.
The offer, which needs the support of at least 75 per cent of noteholders to proceed, had been due to close on Monday at 7pm, but the larger noteholders have sought an extension to consider the offer, said Mr Anderson.
Octaviar has extended the offer until 4pm on August 29.
The same offer has been made to the James Packer-backed Challenger Financial Services, owed $100 million in unlisted bonds.
Octaviar owes $197.5 million to the Jenny Hutson-controlled Premium Income Fund, $246 million to its New Zealand subsidiary OPI Pacific Finance and $53 million to the Australian Taxation Office.
It said the $40 million owed to the National Australia Bank through a guarantee for funds lent to former subsidiary Living and Leisure Australia (LLA) had been repaid.
The repayment was made through the completion of a recapitalisation plan which this week delivered almost half of LLA to Mr Packer's private equity vehicle, Arctic Capital.
The Premium Income Fund has already indicated it will accept the payout offer, while Octaviar is still working on its payout offer for OPI Pacific Finance. It also has yet to gauge the ATO's response.
"The company has sought a meeting next week with officers of the ATO to fully explain the offer being made," said Mr Anderson.
Last month, Octaviar averted a winding-up move brought against it by the Public Trustee of Queensland, which at the time was acting on behalf of the noteholders.
Creditors have been warned by Octaviar director Chris Scott that liquidation would deliver, at best, 13.9c in the dollar to all unsecured creditors.

I’m sorry but I find it hard to swallow that the ‘press’ keep getting this wrong.

WC, via their phone line assures us that JH is in their boots and all for us, aggressively negotiating for PIF investors.
But time and again we hear that JH has accepted ‘the deal’ from Scott.

This apparent compliance with OCV still points to WC being “in bed’ with OCV…..and I don’t think that is in the best interest of PIF investors.

Part of me feels the move, way back, to place PIF at arms length from Octaviar is not sincere and that WC is either a puppet of OCV, or JH and Scott remain in strong cahoots.

It seems the other Major creditors, who now have until the 29 th August to accept, are very much still negotiating something better.

Why have PIF straight away put their hand up for what must be the best deal for OCV ?

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

We’ve already seen the believers justify the octavia deal saying it’s better than nothing. Spare us any more of this nonsense. JH and SC have had their game of tiggy and are sitting at the ends of the earth right now laughing at you people. Do ya think NAB took 22.5 cents in the dollar for the $40 million they were paid out this week? Let’s see what the 20 largest noteholders come up with. Here’s hoping they don’t negotiate a deal, you can bet it won’t be 22.5 cents in the dollar. Our only chance of a decent deal now is if the noteholders put OCV into administration.

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If all of the 50M was given as a special distribution it would equate to about 0.65 of a cent per unit (or $650 for every $100,000)

Boots

Correction, that should be 6.5 cents per unit (or $6,500 for every $100,000) but my point is the same.

Boots

 

[wally3218]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

What happens after the fund is listed on the NSX for xxx amount.
If down the track it is put into recievership and liquidated with a orderly wind up.
Will the unit price be still a $1 or will it be the listed price that we get a percentage off.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

What happens after the fund is listed on the NSX for xxx amount.
If down the track it is put into recievership and liquidated with a orderly wind up.
Will the unit price be still a $1 or will it be the listed price that we get a percentage off.

No to both your qustains What the offer & bid on the exchange has got nothing to do what a unit is realy worth Units are realy only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for them In other words they could be valured at say 60 cents but if buyers are only willing to pay 40 cents say that is only what they are worth //////////

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

MFS chief settles Lift case for $13.8m:::::August 11, 2008 ::::THE former chief executive of troubled property and tourism group MFS, Michael King, has agreed he owes the creditors of the failed margin lender Lift Capital $13.8 million.

Lift's administrator, Tony McGrath, of McGrathNicol, sued to recover the money jointly from Mr King and his fellow founder of MFS, Philip Adams, in the NSW Supreme Court in June.

At a pre-trial directions hearing on Friday, Mr McGrath's solicitor, Philip Stern, handed up consent orders signed by Mr King.

Justice Patricia Bergin entered judgment against Mr King for $13.8 million, payable by January 1.

Mr Stern said he was still trying to serve court papers on Mr Adams, who lives in Dubai.

The case relates to a $25 million margin lending facility granted by Lift to a private company, Black Teak Pty Ltd, in July 2006.

The loan was guaranteed by Mr King and Mr Adams, who are the only directors of Black Teak.

Mr McGrath has dropped a third defendant from the case, Black Teak's company secretary, Lee-Anne Murray.

Black Teak owns a little less than 1 per cent of the shares in MFS, now called Octaviar.

The shares have not traded since January, when they were suspended following a 75 per cent plunge over two days.

Lift Capital's directors called in Mr McGrath as voluntary administrator in April.

Creditors will meet on September 15 to decide whether to wind up Lift or agree to a deed of company arrangement.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots only the SF component of any cash the PIF gets will be distributed and my understanding is that has to by law as the SF was put in place to cover any short fall in distributions. So I am no expert but I would imagine that less than 1/4 of any money recieved would constitute the SF share. JH is not giving that to unit holders out of kindness, she is legally obliged to. Regards, Seamisty

Seamisty. Well spotted regarding the obligation. I suspect you're correct.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If we as investors own the fund....then why can't we have access to ALL the paperwork? .......maybe then we could run it ourselves and save a fortune....is this possible?

My guess - because no one would borrow from PIF if the details would become publicly available. Would you borrow from a Bank if a prospective employer could Google your debt levels?

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Some folk are sure easley lead and get sucked in They are the ones that snake oil sales people love Of cause your not on of them are you Javis ???????????????

I'm one of them. I parked by savings in PIF didn't I.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This is from the Gold Coast Bulletin Aug 9th. I have highlighted the relative PIF bit.

Nick Nichols
August 9th, 2008
...
The Premium Income Fund has already indicated it will accept the payout offer, ...

I’m sorry but I find it hard to swallow that the ‘press’ keep getting this wrong.

FYI the OCV release to the ASX - page 2:
"The Responsible Entity has advised that the cash offer is likely to be accepted, subject to the acceptance by other creditors of offers put to them".

See http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20080808/pdf/31bm9chfc0fc3b.pdf

The reporter wasn't that far off the mark. Whether or not OCV's reporting of WC's position is accurate is another question.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

We’ve already seen the believers justify the octavia deal saying it’s better than nothing. Spare us any more of this nonsense. JH and SC have had their game of tiggy and are sitting at the ends of the earth right now laughing at you people. Do ya think NAB took 22.5 cents in the dollar for the $40 million they were paid out this week? Let’s see what the 20 largest noteholders come up with. Here’s hoping they don’t negotiate a deal, you can bet it won’t be 22.5 cents in the dollar. Our only chance of a decent deal now is if the noteholders put OCV into administration.

Hmmmm. My Warning-Danger gene is in overdrive today. I see conspiracy everywhere.

When's the deadline for PIF to accept the OOCV offer? All the docs merely say a 'similar offer' has been put to PIF. So, when's the deadline? I ask because this morning I'm suspicious the whole WC thing is a decoy. (Maybe I inhaled too much of the sealant I was painting with on the weekend.) Is it before our vote on 18 September?

If WC lose the vote, WC and JH walk away with their reputation in tact. Of all people, corporate lawyers know how close they can sail to the wind with all that 'best interests of the unit holders', 'for the benefit of the unit holders' and 'based on information that was available' stuff; even if ASIC decides to have a sniff around. WC can then always dismiss accusations of foul play by simply saying that unit holders voted against WC. (Who's going to remember the details in 2 yrs time?)

OCV gave WC the $3m hence WC is not really out of pocket. So all WC need to do now is accept the OCV offer and then lose the vote and OCV will have got out of $150M+ for a cost of $3M.

Hmmm - if WC accept the OCV offer to PIF the best thing to do then is vote yes for WC. So we can hold someone as accountable. Otherwise we'll be completely on our own and out of pocket. As Joachim Pheonix said in the flic Gladiator - all this scheming is making my head hurt.

On a lighter side - anyone also a fan of the Late Show in the 90's. Remember Piffy and his bells? PIF rang all the right bells, but was it the real thing? Was it really quality?

 

[Bumblebee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped, I am so in there with you on your last post. Conspiracy theory and all.

It is so obvious when you stop for a moment and have a look at things from the other side. Thanks for that post.

Re you wondering on the deadline.... Gold Coast bulletin reports deadline for the major creditors extended by OCV to 4pm August 29 .

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hmmmm. My Warning-Danger gene is in overdrive today. I see conspiracy everywhere.

QUOTE]

Duped

It will be interesting to see what happens on 18 th Aug on the Gold Coast.

There is something about the number 18.

Regards

Splitpin

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

...

When's the deadline for PIF to accept the OOCV offer? All the docs merely say a 'similar offer' has been put to PIF. So, when's the deadline? I ask because this morning I'm suspicious the whole WC thing is a decoy. (Maybe I inhaled too much of the sealant I was painting with on the weekend.) Is it before our vote on 18 September?
...

Timeline

• WC’s original date for vote was August
• PTQ went to court to wind up OCV July 24 and 25, but JH and CS stopped that.
• OCV’s original deadline for Creditor offer Aug 11
• Creditor offer deadline extended to Aug 29th because most (big) creditors want more time to negotiate (but not JH!)
• PTQ (or new trustee?) going to court to wind up OCV Sept 9 and 10
• WC’s vote changed to Sept 18

I spoke with WC hotline yesterday and was told the NSX is the only exit option in the short term apart from the off market transfer option which is available right now if you can organise it. When asked if redemptions can be started up again when the fund is stable and brining in money again the answer was that it won’t be that kind of fund – redemptions will be removed from the constitution all together in the Sept vote.

When asked why we won’t be given the option for a moratorium the answer (when you cut thought the spiel) is that WC aren’t interested in that option. What happened to give priority to the members’ interests! And don’t tell me we aren’t interested – we've basically been told this is not an option and haven't been given any info on this to enable us to decide.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Timeline

• WC’s original date for vote was August
• PTQ went to court to wind up OCV July 24 and 25, but JH and CS stopped that.
• OCV’s original deadline for Creditor offer Aug 11
• Creditor offer deadline extended to Aug 29th because most (big) creditors want more time to negotiate (but not JH!)
• PTQ (or new trustee?) going to court to wind up OCV Sept 9 and 10
• WC’s vote changed to Sept 18

I spoke with WC hotline yesterday and was told the NSX is the only exit option in the short term apart from the off market transfer option which is available right now if you can organise it. When asked if redemptions can be started up again when the fund is stable and brining in money again the answer was that it won’t be that kind of fund – redemptions will be removed from the constitution all together in the Sept vote.

When asked why we won’t be given the option for a moratorium the answer (when you cut thought the spiel) is that WC aren’t interested in that option. What happened to give priority to the members’ interests! And don’t tell me we aren’t interested – we've basically been told this is not an option and haven't been given any info on this to enable us to decide.

Thank Dora for all that info I got the same story when i spock to them too Its Bloody awlful to say the least Once WC gets the vote 75% there is not much we can do If you try to sell your units on the NSX any time in the furture you will get nothing for them Believe me i know i buy & sell shares Not on the NSX but the ASX i would not touch the NSX with a 1000 FT poll But dont take my word for it ask any leading stockbrooker or share trader what they think of the NSX WC could loose the vote for being so pig headed over this GD ////////

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Must add to my above post When talking to someone at WC the other day about listing on the NSX instead of the ASX I asked where do you shop Coles or Woolies She repiied Coles I said why not the Seven a Eleven She replied Coles is bigger & much better & so is the ASX I rest my case GD /////