Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

iamspeed · 3 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:
Latest Annual report I have is for year to 30 June 07. No mention of $200M debt there. I don't have the 31Dec 07 report. Did PWC note the massive debt and that it breached the PDS?

Duped

My best guess is loan was drawn down in November??

If you look at the monthly updates (which I now wouldn't even wipe my you know what on), October says Fund Size $787.2mill, while November says Unitholder Funds $781.1 mill. I take this as sneaky code to mean in November the size of the Fund was maybe $961.1mill, less $180mill loan and therefore a net Unitholder Funds of $781.1mill.

Cheers

selciper · 3 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Something odd was happening inside the PIF during November 07.

My MFS "consultant" rang to ask me if I wanted to reinvest the usual sum on its maturity date (early January). I mentioned that he seemed to be calling much earlier in advance than was usual. "Tidying up for the Christmas break," he told me cheerily. I was slightly puzzled, but went ahead anyway and stupidly reinvested. Had I known about the RBOS loan I would have redeemed immediately. Some investors knew that something was wrong because redemption requests were beginning to flood in - this was PIF's cue to tie a noose around our necks.

We should note that there were no PIF Xmas luncheons in December 07. And to think that I own a well-thumbed book describing Ponzi schemes!

Mary Lynch · 3 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Selcipher, I rang the ASIC number today and talked brifly to someone, and then got hung up on!

pixierich · 3 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Selciper - your observation about the Xmas lunches is bang on! You will be interested to learn that my wife and I were being regaled with champers and canapes by our MFS rep (who I'm quite sure was as much in the dark as we were) at the MFS Royal Pines tennis in January, while behind our backs the "Titanic" was already well on her way to the bottom! How stupid were we?

Rocky1 · 3 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

iamspeed said:
Duped

My best guess is loan was drawn down in November??

If you look at the monthly updates (which I now wouldn't even wipe my you know what on), October says Fund Size $787.2mill, while November says Unitholder Funds $781.1 mill. I take this as sneaky code to mean in November the size of the Fund was maybe $961.1mill, less $180mill loan and therefore a net Unitholder Funds of $781.1mill.

Cheers

iamspeed

as mentioned in an earlier post, I spoke to Stephen Hart from PIF about a month ago and asked what the RBOS loan was for. He said it was used to purchase "assets". He went onto say that the value of the PIF in Dec was approximately $980 Mill which is consistent with your "sneaky code".

Poor bloke, he is a national manager for the PIF, is an investor in the PIF and must have been misled himself

PIFholder · 3 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good evening all,

I have to agree with a few other investors here who have said it certainly is not the time to replace the RE. WC appears to be committed to rebuilding PIF and returning value to our investment. We all just have to be very patient with everything that is going on. If we have to wait the 3-5 years JH suggests it will take to return to the $1 mark then that is what we have to do.

I certainly don't think liquidating the fund is a good idea at all. Liquidators will sell the assets with complete disregard to unit-holders, subtract their extravagant fees and with a market climate at the point where it is today, I hardly foresee them getting optimum market prices if PIF is liquidated. Plus, if the Fund remains as a going concern and the restrictions by financiers on PIF are loosened, then those other investors who are in a worse position than me will at least get some money. Three cents per unit by Christmas is something at least. And if WC isn't going to take management fees until distributions can be made, I have no doubt that they'll be doing their best.

I have faith in Ms Hutson when she says she can return the full value of the capital. In the Gold Coast Bulletin today, it mentioned how she was able to turn $1 into $16 in five years for the S8 group. She has done amazing things before, and I think we need to trust her to do it again. We certainly can't let this ship sink if it can still be saved.

As Dora said (at #635), try calling WC's callcentre. I spoke to someone there and they were really helpful in answering some questions. Give them a try. Their number according to the WC site is 1300 368 848.

Let's just wait for the forums next week. I'm sure they will clear things up a lot better.

Patience is a virtue!

iamspeed · 3 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

PIFholder said:
I have faith in Ms Hutson when she says she can return the full value of the capital. In the Gold Coast Bulletin today, it mentioned how she was able to turn $1 into $16 in five years for the S8 group. She has done amazing things before, and I think we need to trust her to do it again. We certainly can't let this ship sink if it can still be saved.

I'd agree she does seem to be saying/doing the rights at the moment. She is standing up to James Packer as he tries to screw us out of money.

We shouldn't get confused with turning S8 from $1 into $16 - it was a listed share. This is much different to our situation. Once money is lost on a loan it is lost for good (unless you can go after other security), you cannot make a profit on another loan to make up the difference. I don't think things are as bad as she makes out but cannot see $1 coming back to us in the future.

selciper · 3 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Iamspeed -

It would seem to make sense to proceed with WC. Stability is what we need at present. Without being fully informed, my inclination would be to support the WC propositions placed before us (NSX? Don't know). But I have no accounting skills. Other writers to this thread seem very clued up on the mathematics of the Fund and can separate the emotional from the technical. Even if all the sums add up, the thought of certain ex-MFS employees still making decisions on my behalf does worry me. Will JH be a hands-on operator? These points need clearing up at the forums. A clean slate is certainly called for. In the end I'll be guided by an AG committee and its lawyer as to what to do.

DoraNBoots · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Two questions:

What rights do members of a scheme have to inspect the books?
Is it realistic for our AG to fund a professional to determine the value of the PIF’s units?

My 30 second search of the Corp Act indicates we either need a director’s approval or a court order. Can this please be checked with the solicitor if we don’t get an answer on this forum? Hopefully Jenny will approve access to the books. At the least a professional could go over the PWC report and determine unit prices for the 3 scenarios in the same way the WC board had to determine them.

SPLITPIN · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Part 2F.3””Inspection of books

247A Order for inspection of books of company or registered managed investment scheme
(1) On application by a member of a company or registered managed investment scheme, the Court may make an order: etc, etc

In regards to all this talk about "liquidation", it appears from the Corporations Act the only option for is "winding up". Please correct me if this opinion is incorrect.

LeonardG · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi guys...I just joined the forum. Can someone please tell me whether there is an acotion group in Melbourne (preferably in the South East)?

seamisty · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

LeonardG said:
Hi guys...I just joined the forum. Can someone please tell me whether there is an acotion group in Melbourne (preferably in the South East)?

Good morning LeonardG and welcome to the forum. There is an action group in Melbourne. If you would like to join please e-mail breaker1@aaptnet.com and register your details and he will put you in contact with the Melb. rep. Cheers, Seamisty

pixierich · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Marcom - while preparing flyers for the Melbourne forum, it occurred to me that perhaps no one had acknowledged your PIF logo.

So on behalf of all of us, thanks for taking the time - nice logo!

selciper · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

QUOTE OF THE DAY.

"I think investors this year [2007] have had quite a few surprises sprung on them and next year [2008] will probably be no different."

Guess who said that in 2007! Answer is on page 2 within this February 11 Sydney Morning Herald story link.

http://business.smh.com.au/if-you-have-it-blow-it-20080210-1re9.html

marcom · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

pixierich said:
Marcom - while preparing flyers for the Melbourne forum, it occurred to me that perhaps no one had acknowledged your PIF logo.

So on behalf of all of us, thanks for taking the time - nice logo!

Your welcome

Marcom

Jadel · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear fellow Action Group Members

I would like to inform you that we have had a magnificent response with our appeal to ASIC

We are very close to the magic and elusive one hunded names on the document ,however i am certain we can get that number given a few more days

Therefore i have decided to defer sending in the Appeal until next Monday morning

I would like to email and thank you all personally but at the moment the wife is threatening to bludgeon me over the head with a rolling pin if i do not get of the computer and do some work around the house

Regards Chris

sak · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Having been involved with westpoint there is some interesting reading especially concerning ASIC & PWC on the Westpoint Investors Group site below,it will give you some idea of what we face

http://www.wig.org.au/

Rocky1 · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

LeonardG said:
Hi guys...I just joined the forum. Can someone please tell me whether there is an acotion group in Melbourne (preferably in the South East)?

Hi LeonardG

As well as sending your details to breaker please also forward them to adam.thorn@optusnet.com.au - myself and another member have been organising the Melbourne AG. We have an AG member meeting planned for immediately after the forum next Tuesday very close to where the forum is being held.

Happy to also have a chat to you via phone if you want to email me your phone number

DoraNBoots · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Here’s an update from my phone call with WC today:

Guy Hutchings won’t be at the WC Updates next week. Reason why he’s still on board will be answered on Monday (in Brisbane).

We are not allowed to video the sessions, main reason was to protect the investor’s privacy etc. WC will be providing a full transcript of the meetings (not sure if meeting was plural). There was even talk of them providing video and placing on youtube, but this was very vague and didn’t sound credible.

It didn’t sound like we will get permission to inspect the books from WC. Apparently this request is still with Jenny but it sounds like the answer will be No, to protect privacy of people they loan to (really not sure what was said exactly, privacy of someone). They are saying they will provide as much info as possible to investors. (Dora: I’m afraid this wouldn’t satisfy me!)

WC are saying Jenny will not leave the forums until every question has been answered so take all your questions and keep her to that.

To repeat what was said in an earlier post. If anyone wants any questions asked at the Brisbane forum please send them to: PIFActionGroupBNE@gmail.com.

Jadel · 4 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Well thats no surpise i never thought he would appear on any public forum again after the recent revelations.

I still have a copy of his signed letter in January 2008 stating categorically that the fund had no major problems.

I think we can rely on a competent solicitor to handle all the legal proceedures.

And AG members should be concentrating their efforts on that initiative at this stage

Jenny Hutson will have to respond to a Subpoena if that is required.

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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