Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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Jadel said:
Hi Duped

Perhaps the journalist is confused . This does not appear to me to be money from the RBOS loan if it was paid to OCV in October 2007....
Click to expand...

Yeah. I would love to be able to sit in.
Final dividend of 20.5c worth a total $96m was declared on 21 August payable on October 2 to shareholders on record on September 18 according to the press:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/mfs-readies-for-spending-spree/story-e6frfh4f-1111114236329

http://www.investordaily.com/2833.htm

Or Lahey's own "Dividend out of thin air at MFS" http://www.watoday.com.au/action/printArticle?id=1439489

"... On September 16, two weeks before the dividend payment was due, he [Mr Anderson] emailed Mr White with a subject heading of ''two weeks tomorrow'' and said he was not confident that the assignment of the four loans would happen in time.
''Without intervention from you or MCK [Mr King] I can't see that we will be in a position to pay the dividend,'' he wrote.
But Mr Anderson, who said he held 2 million MFS shares at the time, angrily denied he had used loans to pay a dividend the group could not truly afford.
Adam Bell, SC, for the liquidator, said Mr Anderson needed the money urgently and did not care that proper related party approvals were being bypassed as money moved through the Premium Income Fund to pay the dividend.
''There was no other available source of cash to pay the dividend,'' Mr Bell said.
Mr Anderson said that claim was ''rubbish'' and MFS had ''significant equity'' at the time. ''There is no evidence these were the only funds available,'' he said.
MFS could have paid its dividend from a $100 million placement the group might have received, Mr Anderson said. ..."

Loans ... Placement ... Equity .... what's the diff? Dodgy bros. None of them are any thing like profit.

I'm guessing that some of the $96m dividend was paid using the $60m that MFS Admin parked in PIF itself for a few months from the last days of June 07 on. Where did that $60m come from? From Fortress?
 
erniel said:
I am amazed that Asic have not started criminal proceedings against those mentioned in this article and what the liquidators have uncovered to date.:confused:
Click to expand...


My guess Ernial, is that ASIC is way out of their depth and they know it but their top brass and Ministers can't concede that this commission's lofty aims can never be achieved.

It probably could in a more dictatorial or totalitarian state; which Australia will never be. But away from the rarified air in Canberralia, in the real Australia, whose social fabric is held together by things like ethics and common law with torts and principles like caveat emptor, (not the Federal Triangle's whims) ASIC is a dangerous experiment whose pied pipers have led many of those that has led many of those that it was supposed to protect to be scalded. False prophets like the AFS licence scheme run by ASIC. It's very presence unpicking the warp and weft that is caveat emptor: carefully laid down by great minds over many centuries. I now know what beware false prophets really means.

But like many _____ists from bygone social experimental fleeting eras, they can't concede. Too many 'jobs' at stake. Much like all those finance 'jobs' supported by the $46m a day the sector takes from our super savings in their zero net sum games.

Selectors in the 19th century. Superannuants in the 21st. Here we go again. Being mislead by false prophets.

Sorry for taking up so much of all of your time again. Maybe this would have sufficed: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/bus...prepare-to-sit-in-judgment-20100621-ysf0.html

"Meanwhile, the final report into liquidators may give it a headache. The inquiry, instigated by Senator John Williams, finishes tomorrow night with an appearance by D'Aloisio and the lobby group the Insolvency Practitioners Association of Australia. The report is expected to be published before the election and the talk is that it will recommend stripping ASIC of its powers to regulate liquidators on the grounds that the Insolvency and Trustee Service Australia, which regulates bankruptcies, would do a better job.
There is a lot of frustration at ASIC's approach when dealing with complaints, and the time liquidators take to get results."
 
Thanks for the article re ASIC Duped. After my dealings with ASIC late this afternoon I can truly relate to your comment 'Being mislead by false prophets'!! I haven't got the energy or inclination to comment further at this point apart from I feel that after in excess of two and a half years of being told 'they are not sitting idly by', 'a dedicated team is working on all available material', 'We are nearing a concluded view' BLAH BLAH BLAH. I am of the opinion they are a total waste of tax payer funds and could well be answerable for negligence from several different directions themselves. A bit sad when you make a follow up enquiry on a date as requested by ASIC, don't hear back, then after you follow it up again yourself, are informed that your 'enquiry' has automatically been lodged as a complaint!! Another fob off.

Seamisty
 
I think that ASIC are simply travelling for free in the slipstream of the liquidators hearings. The listless "guardian" can, at a later date, do a lot of huffing and puffing, but if they leave it too late they may well look ridiculously flat-footed in the eyes of their many critics. Anxious investors seek fair justice..
 
Duped said:
My guess Ernial, is that ASIC is way out of their depth and they know it but their top brass and Ministers can't concede that this commission's lofty aims can never be achieved.

It probably could in a more dictatorial or totalitarian state; which Australia will never be. But away from the rarified air in Canberralia, in the real Australia, whose social fabric is held together by things like ethics and common law with torts and principles like caveat emptor, (not the Federal Triangle's whims) ASIC is a dangerous experiment whose pied pipers have led many of those that has led many of those that it was supposed to protect to be scalded. False prophets like the AFS licence scheme run by ASIC. It's very presence unpicking the warp and weft that is caveat emptor: carefully laid down by great minds over many centuries. I now know what beware false prophets really means.

But like many _____ists from bygone social experimental fleeting eras, they can't concede. Too many 'jobs' at stake. Much like all those finance 'jobs' supported by the $46m a day the sector takes from our super savings in their zero net sum games.

Selectors in the 19th century. Superannuants in the 21st. Here we go again. Being mislead by false prophets.

Sorry for taking up so much of all of your time again. Maybe this would have sufficed: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/bus...prepare-to-sit-in-judgment-20100621-ysf0.html

"Meanwhile, the final report into liquidators may give it a headache. The inquiry, instigated by Senator John Williams, finishes tomorrow night with an appearance by D'Aloisio and the lobby group the Insolvency Practitioners Association of Australia. The report is expected to be published before the election and the talk is that it will recommend stripping ASIC of its powers to regulate liquidators on the grounds that the Insolvency and Trustee Service Australia, which regulates bankruptcies, would do a better job.
There is a lot of frustration at ASIC's approach when dealing with complaints, and the time liquidators take to get results."
Click to expand...

Hi Duped

As I understand the situation ,Guy Hutchins is alleging that somebody fraudulently used his electronic signature to remove a hundred millions dollars or so, out of the PIF and into OCV to pay out a artificial dividend for that Company . The documentary evidence to support these allegations have been revealed at Bently Enquiry. If it is beyond ASICs capabilities to run a criminal case on that sort of evidence , God help us .

As you have stated we would all be better off following the
Roman buisness idealogy thousand of yeas ago ,‘Caveat Emptor’. Its absolutely fail safe ,how many tens of thousands of lives have been destoyed because investors logically thought that ASIC was a corporate police force created specifically to uphold the Corporations Act.

What ASIC actualy have is a mandate to only act as a last resort and for what they perceive to be in their ‘Solomons wisdom’ the greater public interest . As long as big business can operate unhindered what does it matter to them if people lose their life savings ,after all ,they can always go to Center Link .
 
Hello. I have read many posts here and there are many knowledgeable people holding onto slender hope. I feel that the only possible positive outcome will be through the class action. I have not heard much about it recently, does anybody know how that is tracking? That class action really is the last thread of hope for me.
 
ACB said:
Hello. I have read many posts here and there are many knowledgeable people holding onto slender hope. I feel that the only possible positive outcome will be through the class action. I have not heard much about it recently, does anybody know how that is tracking? That class action really is the last thread of hope for me.
Click to expand...
ABC I agree, court/legal action will possiblyly be the only way PIF investors have a chance of recouping some of their stolen/mismanaged funds. ASIC unfortunately appear to be about as effective as our current RE at present, useless!

Re the class action, I did read an interesting snippet on the CCP::

THE COURT ORDERS THAT:
1. Pursuant to s 50 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 (Cth), the exhibit marked “Confidential AAC-1” referred to in the affidavit of Arthur Anthony Carney dated 19 July 2010 be sealed on the Court file and not be published or disclosed to any person without order of the Court.

Apart from that I believe the lawyers are satisfied with the progress to date. Time will tell!! Seamisty
 
ACB said:
Hello. I have read many posts here and there are many knowledgeable people holding onto slender hope. I feel that the only possible positive outcome will be through the class action. I have not heard much about it recently, does anybody know how that is tracking? That class action really is the last thread of hope for me.
Click to expand...

Good day ACB,
This site will get you onto the CA action. Bookmark it together with this forum site for easy access.
It is expected to shift into higher gear once the amended Statement of Claim is filed by Carney's. Perhaps it has been.
Regards,

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/NSD324/2009/actions
 
An insipid ASIC is worse than no ASIC at all. It puts a thin, flimsy, pretty screen just in front of the cliff edge that is civil and criminal lawsuits. It emboldens bad behaviour. Emboldens bad businesses. Making it more difficult for good businesses to survive. Causing downward pressure; lowering benchmarks of behaviour. How fast would you drive along that alpine road if you knew the guard rail was only designed to occasionally stop cars going over the edge, i.e. to create a perception of safety.

What a bunch of stimulants. Public servants that are there just to simulate order and safety with their lobby approved laws and weak policing and stimulate us into parting with our savings with their AFS licence system.
 
I was sent the following link by a fellow PIF investor who also has units in the former City Pacific-managed First Mortgage Fund .

http://www.smh.com.au/business/singo-backs-big-brown-for-trifecta-20100809-11u0p.html?skin=text-only

The responsible entity of the former City Pacific-managed First Mortgage Fund has waved a desiccated carrot at unitholders in the fund by promising them a return of 4 ¢ in the dollar ($35 million) just in time for Christmas.

All unitholders have to do is vote for several resolutions put by Balmain Trilogy 14 months after the investment manager was voted in to replace City Pacific after promising to ''stop the rot''.

''We are thrilled that the first payments to unitholders will soon be made and that we can restore some financial health to our unitholders,'' blurted Trilogy's Rodger Bacon in a press release.

Unitholders are being asked to vote for a ''new redemption program'' that will return $295 million of capital to them by October 2012. That will be a return of about 30 ¢ in the dollar, more than four years since the fund was frozen.

For every redemption made over $415 million (still less than 50 ¢ in the dollar originally invested), Balmain Trilogy is proposing to pay itself a 20 per cent performance fee. In response to calls from unitholders seeking a cut in its fees, Trilogy has promised to cut its management fee from 1.75 per cent of gross assets (not net) to 1 per cent. As anticipated, the manager has also proposed introducing a current value unit price, meaning each $1 unit will now be revalued on the value of the assets in the fund.

HAUNTED BY PAST

Balmain Trilogy has also been forced to include a resolution for the September 1 meeting under which its management fees will be cut to 1.25 per cent of net assets, not gross assets.

The resolution comes amid an unflattering internet campaign being undertaken by one unhappy investor. The disgruntled unitholder, Allan Garnham, who runs the moneymagik.com website, has been keen to dredge up details about Trilogy Fund Management's past.

For one, he has found details of another fund managed by Trilogy that collapsed last year, about the time it was trying to be voted in as the manager of the City Pacific fund.

Included on the moneymagik website is a letter from Trilogy in relation to the Principal Mortgages Mezzanine Finance Fund. ''The fund ceased operations on 25 May 2009 and all units were redeemed at nil value,'' it said. This was the month before Trilogy and Balmain were voted in as the new managers of the City Pacific fund.

''They didn't tell us about this one at the meeting - not a murmur in the media - why not?,'' Garnham asks. He also includes information linking the fund to the controversial property spruiker Henry Kaye.




Deja vu??? Sound familiar? Perhaps Balmain think it worked for the WC team of stooges so maybe they would use a similar approach? If the investors in this fund even get a nibble at the promised 'desictaed carrot' it will be more than PIF investors got!

STOOGE::A stooge is a person who will try and take every dollar you have, and then save those dollars for any cause that doesnt involve giving it to friends, or family. These stooges are often in 'stooge denial'. You can spot a stooge, at events where free food is served. Stooges often attempt to think up of scams for scoring free money through friends and family. They travel in groups hoping to stooge more money, and can often be found in Mitsubishi Pajero's which run on Oil rather than petrol. They enjoy the taste of Bundaberg Rum and should be avoided where possible, unless prepared to give them money. Warning: some stooges walk among us everyday and have been trained in the art of stooging very well, so pay attention to all signs.

Seamisty
 
Unlike some of you. I don't blame myself for ending up in PIF.

And I DO NOT ACCEPT Wayne Swann's intimation that we deserve what we got because we were going for higher returns. I.e. we were greedy. (As for ex Liberal leader and MFS chairman Andrew Peacock - the less said the better)

It was a hustle by unscrupulous operators that the Commonwealth government and its instutions/commissions aided and abetted. Just like the States did with whole Selector mess from the 19th century (I.e. Dad and Dave) which (through poor enforcement) stimulated enormous fraud and corruption and caused great suffering to individuals. All in the name of advancing the productivity of the State.

This is the same Commonwealth that taxes the bejeezes out of us, taking away our the financial power to look after ourselves. The same Commonwealth that continues to take all the power from the States. Then what ..... it sets up a piecemeal regulatory system (still unfinished), sets up a couple of Commissions (ACCC and ASIC - both a relatively recent little experiment) to create the perception of governance knowing well that there is no way it can actually do anything itself to protect its citizen's assets, promotes financial advisors as professionals who sit far below the professionalism of industries like lawyers and doctors, and then what ..... sits back as we get mauled saying: hmmmm we must fix up this bit of the sytem over here and tweak it a bit over there for the next batch of 'clients'.

Antony Green has a list of the most marginal electorates. Click on the Sates tab to see if you're in one.

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/preview.htm

If you're in a marginal electorate it's imperitive you immediately contact or write to all the candidates in your electorate and tell them about our story.

FOR THE SAKE OF ALL UNITHOLDERS IN SAFE SEATS, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

We didn't make anywhere near enough submissions to the Ripoll inquiry and barely got a mention in the final report.

THIS IS THE ONLY TIME YOU WILL BE HEARD Even better, give your candidates an ultimatum.

A VOTE FOR INDEPENDENTS OR A NON LABOR/COALITION PARTY IS YOUR ONLY WAY OF VOTING FOR STATE POWER OVER COMMONWEALTH POWER.

The Commonwealth takes the powers away from the States. But who is doing the heavy lifting in getting the truth about what MFS did to OUR FUND. Who had the guts to do the right thing by its clients UP FRONT. The Public Trustee of Queensland, not ASIC.

I'm not the only one who thinks that the Commonwealth's self congratulations about the management of Australians' superannuation savings is totally out of perspective. See:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/05/2974671.htm
 
Duped said:
MFS/Octaviar public examinations continue this week. Can anyone make it there?
Click to expand...
I was hoping some of the PIF Sydney unitholders would attend Duped as it appears the media has lost interest??
They are held at::
Court 3
Darlinghurst Court House
Taylor Square
Corner of Forbes Street and Oxford Street
Darlinghurst NSW

The examinations are continuing until mid Oct then resuming in Nov.

Seamisty
 
mellifuous said:
Well, we're in the same sort of struggle you guys were with W.C.

Here is a letter I'll be sending to ASIC today. I encourage members of the PFMF who oppose the manager's proposals to consider sending this letter to ASIC (under their own name).

Thanks.

http://www.moneymagik.com/asic_request.pdf
Click to expand...
I will be very interested to see what the response from ASIC will be mellifuous.

Seamisty
 
seamisty said:
I was hoping some of the PIF Sydney unitholders would attend Duped as it appears the media has lost interest??
They are held at::
Court 3
Darlinghurst Court House
Taylor Square
Corner of Forbes Street and Oxford Street
Darlinghurst NSW

The examinations are continuing until mid Oct then resuming in Nov.

Seamisty
Click to expand...

Perhaps all the journalists are covering the election campaigns and will get back to important news reporting next week, such as Bentleys court examinations. There seems to be a small army of journalists on the campaign trail. I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling very in the dark as to what information is coming out of the hearings. Hopefully, someone from the PIF or perhaps Carneys can enlighten us?

Does anyone know when transcripts of the hearings become available to the public?

Cookie1
 

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