Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I could be good if, over the next week, we consider how we are going to proceed post forum.

With the circulation of flyers at meetings and general exposure of the AG my guess is that our numbers could swell conservatively, to at least 10 fold.

That may be good in many ways, but containing and re-assuring disgruntled investors all over OZ could become just another nightmare.

What are your ideas on this fellow AG members?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mary Lynch said:

I could be good if, over the next week, we consider how we are going to proceed post forum.

With the circulation of flyers at meetings and general exposure of the AG my guess is that our numbers could swell conservatively, to at least 10 fold.

That may be good in many ways, but containing and re-assuring disgruntled investors all over OZ could become just another nightmare.

What are your ideas on this fellow AG members?

Click to expand...

Mary, I think DoraNboots idea of the Yahoo website, see post 378 will be the best way to deal with a large group of members and she /he certainly appear to have excellent IT skills. Thats just my opinion. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mary Lynch said:

With the circulation of flyers at meetings and general exposure of the AG my guess is that our numbers could swell conservatively, to at least 10 fold.

That may be good in many ways, but containing and re-assuring disgruntled investors all over OZ could become just another nightmare.

Click to expand...

Hi Mary,

We in Brisbane have the same concern so have setup a group mailbox with an auto reply giving people info about us and our website. The group mailbox will be accessed by multiple members to share the workload responding to email.

We decided this weekend to go ahead with a Yahoo Group for Brisbane and would encourage all other regions to join the group. We want to keep it public and have as many people give opinions and share resources as possible (even non investors such as Claire from the Australian Shareholders Assoc etc).

The group site can be found here: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/PIFActionGroup. Feel free to direct your members here if you wish.

All feedback welcome!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Greetings to all fellow investors

If details of the Brisbane meeting on 7th July are posted on this Forum later that day, we will all eagerly read them.

Then we will know what is going to come out of JH's mouth at our meeting in Melb the next day.

WE WILL WIN!!!!!! THERE IS STRENGTH IN UNITY.

Once again, thanks so much to all doing so much behind the scenes.

Mairmy:

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Syd. Morning Herald 30/06

Trading Halt Request
Announced by: LLA
Announced on: 30/06/2008 10:05:00
Words: 376
Status: Not market sensitive (N)
View original PDF

30 June 2008
Ms Kate Kidson
ASX Limited
Dear Kate
Living and Leisure Australia Group * request for trading halt
We request that ASX place the securities of the Living and Leisure Australia
Group (LLA) immediately into trading halt until the earlier of the commencement
of trading on Wednesday, 2 July 2008 or LLA being in a position to update the
market in relation to the progress of its recapitalisation. LLA remains in
discussions with its lenders and the underwriter of LLA's proposed rights issue in
relation to LLA's recapitalisation proposal.
We are not aware of any reason why the trading halt should not be granted.
Kind Regards
Julanne Shearer
LIVING AND LEISURE
AUSTRALIA GROUP
Living and Leisure
Australia Management
Limited
ABN 60 101 634 315
AFSL 280 985
Living and Leisure
Australia Limited
ABN 92 107 863 445
Level 2, 1 Lawson Street
Southport QLD 4215
PO Box 10405
Southport QLD 4215
p/ 07 5555 4338
f/ 07 5557 8606
www.livingandleisure.com.au

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

Mary, I think DoraNboots idea of the Yahoo website, see post 378 will be the best way to deal with a large group of members and she /he certainly appear to have excellent IT skills. Thats just my opinion. Seamisty

Click to expand...

I have joined the yahoo group and notice that there are a number of files lodged at this site and available for members to download. You may find some of them useful. For example there is Breaker's notes on his phone call with Jenny Hutson. Thanks to Dora for all the files uploaded to date.
I have a summary of all the posts from this site (Aussie Stock Forums) and will upload it after I have finished this message. I found it very helpful when composing my list of questions which is still in progress. A newcomer will find it helpful to quickly come up to speed with what has been discovered since the inception of this forum.
Mutchy

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks for your responses guys. Sounds as though things are well in hand.

Can all Melbourne AG investors take down the yahoo address that Dora has posted on 378 please?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

PS. It could be good if all AG members wear name tags with the logo on them at the forum..What do you think?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The NSX is essentially an illiquid market and does not attract the attention in any way from prospective investors in particular an income generating investment. This index has halved in its total of equity index since 2007 and has a total market capitalization of $683m as of recent date. There are only 37 shares/companies listed with some having multiple listings due to different classes of shares but essentially only 37 companies in all. The majority of these are there for other reasons other than to expect trading in their securities. It is understandable why the NSX would assist with this listing as it would double the capitalization value of that Exchange with this listing.

By listing the Fund on this Exchange I believe will leave the unit holders isolated with no one willing to buy their units for any real value unless it is at a very big discount. The unit holders are very unlikely to get anything like their current NTA that they are entitled to if the Fund was wound up.

I consider there is only one party in this recommendation that would benefit and that is Wellington Capital Limited. I consider this listing is a move by Wellington to warehouse the current unit holders’ funds in a publicly listed entity to retain that capital base within their management fund portfolio to draw on future Management Fees. The current unit holders who own the funds at present I believe will be greatly financially damaged through this listing. This proposed listing would also double the funds under management of Wellington Capital Limited.

The whole thought of listing is tantamount to stealing.

We must have an agenda before the meetings begin. Is anyone doing this preparation - Can you advice re a Sydney representative email address?
Stardust

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Completely agree Stardust and now that you have so eloquently highlited the
dangers of listing on the NSX i will post a letter i have refrained from useing for many weeks .

DEAR FELLOW INVESTOR

We represent a group of people who invested in the Premium Income Fund for capital preservation and regular monthly income and like yourselves have suffered greatly, both financially and emotionally as the result of recent events

The primary aim of the group is dedicated to fighting for long term Capital preservation and the reinstatement of Dividend payments for Investors .

Following the shameless deception and deceit of OCTAVIAR by the previous PIF Responsible Entity which has now brought the fund to this sorry state of affairs we believe that investors who have the most to lose ought to have a voice in any future decisions that the Fund makes.

Unfortunately we are very disappointed at the recent statements by Wellington Capital and Jenny Hutson regarding the future direction of the PIF

For example we are of the opinion that the proposal to list the Fund in its present form on an illiquid market secondary market such as the Newcastle stock Exchange is fundamentally unsound and fraught with danger

This strategy will almost certainly result in THE IMMEDIATE CAPITAL; LOSS OF 50% OR GREATER THAN THE NTA VALUE OF THE FUND

Anybody who has an interst in the OCTAVIAR property Fund MFT now relisted as a separate entity GEO Will understand the risks The NTA of that fund is approx 90cents on the ASX however the stock is currently trading at 36cents (a 65%% loss) another Octaviar entity living and leisure trading above $1 .20 in its heyday is now trading at the absurdly low price of 4 cents

Indeed at this time their are many listed trusts on the ASX trading at large discounts to their NTA consequently we can see no logical reason why any new investors would be prepared to pay a fair price for a tainted income fund especially in an illiquid secondary market

Unquestionably the vast majority of investors who in many cases entrusted irreplaceable retirement and Superannuation Fund Capital in the PIF, did so precisely BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WISH to expose their investment to the PERILS involved in a trading market.

If in fact Wellington Capital and Jenny Hutson honestly believe that listing our fund is such a good idea why then does she NOT LIST HER OWN INCOME FUND WELLINGTON CAPITAL ?

The answer is of course that she would not dare to do this under any circumstances.
Investors in that Fund simply would not accept the risks involved

However wounded Prey is an easy meal for a predatory scavenger therefore it is apparently acceptable conduct for Wellington Capital to recommend this arrangement to PIF investors regardless of the losses they will inevitably sustain in the present financial environment

We believe their are many other alternatives available that will allow investors to redeem the majority of their initial capital over time without the inherent risk of this ill conceived scheme .

Please Contact our group and will be more than happy to personally discuss any the issues above

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

A Question: Say I were to sell 100,000 of my PIF units on the NSX for 70C, would the buyer have the option to convert them back into units in the PIF, or would they have to remain as shares on the NSX?

Also, would I be able to nominate a minimum price to sell them at on the NSX, and just leave them there to meet my price....until I maybe gave up and decided to convert them back into units to redeem in due course along with everyone else?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mary

The two factors that drive an equities price is sentiment and liquidity

After the latest disastrous revelations on the mismanagement of the Premium Income fund i conservatively estimate the best offer anyone will recieve will be no greater than (20c)twenty cents on the National Stock Exchange and as previously comprehensively explained by Stardust the liquidity is practically non existent

The end result will be a disaster for investors

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thank you Stardust and Jadel for todays posts.
I totally agree with the point you are making about the listing of PIF on the NSX being in JH/Wellingtons best interest and not the Investors.
Our capital would be locked up under her mangement forever and a day( while she syphons off her management fee),... unless investors sold at paltry price on the NSX.
I have been weighing up the pros and cons of the NSX listing for some time. Now my opposition to this process has become paramount.
NSX.....IT"S NOT ON, JENNY HUDSON!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks to bath Jadel and Stardust, I believe we really do need to discuss this, what possible advantage do we have listing with NSX? The risks would be huge and the benefits? perhaps those that need their redemptions out now may get a return of 20-70%.....I fear that scenario.....we are exchanging our "secured investments" for no-mans land. Can someone tell me how we fight this?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Want to add that listing on the NSX doesn’t just disadvantage the investors who need to sell immediately – it also disadvantages the rest of the unit holders. Once we have fellow investors in the fund that only paid say 20c for their units we will have a hard time convincing those investors to agree to a special resolution if ever the need were to arise. Also, the RE could suggest a workout where we only get 40c in the dollar back and those new investors who bought on the NSX would agree as they would double there money!

Wonder too if related parties could buy our units at these discounted prices just before they allow us to redeem at the real value? It’s my understanding (after re reading Breakers interview with Jenny) that at some later stage the RE will allow redemption of units. If you knew when redemptions will be allowed and how much each unit is really worth you could make a killing.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I assume you are a member of the Action Group K Smith if not contact Breaker and he will register you on the list . We can only have strength in numbers

My worry is Jenny Hutson is going to attempt a coup d' etat before anybody gets a chance to organise opposition to stop the plan going through. She has allready put an application in to list on the NSX without any regard to investors wishes.

The only thing we can do is to immediately call an EGM to ensure a democratic vote on the issue

Just as a point of academic interest lets take a poll on this forum

Those for and against . Then we can tell her in no uncertain manner what the prevailing sentiment is in this matter at the forthcomeing meetings

Regards Chris

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I’m new to all this but believe (after reading the schemes constitution) that our only rights as a group are to:
Replace the RE
Remove the RE or
Force the RE to wind up the scheme

I don’t think we have any rights when it comes to telling the RE want to do (like listing on the NSX) except to tell them to wind up the scheme.

Javier: would you please confirm if this is correct? Could you please provide us with some feedback from your dealings with the solicitor before the WC meetings.

BTW: The Yahoo Group has a poll asking members if they want to list on the NSX. So far no one has said yes! Please see http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/PIFActionGroup to check out the results and vote.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am sure we are at a point where the group would like to see clearly stated.

1. What are our options
2. Pros and cons for each
3. How do we achieve each option

Be interested to see opinions on this.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

One of the main reasons that I invested in PIF was because it was NOT listed on the stock exchange! I think Ms Hutson should take into account the increasing aversion of PIF members to any listing. We who trusted MSF PIF have been battered enough as it is. WC, please just get on with the job of getting distributions going again and trying to get us back as much capital as possible! No fancy schemes please...now is the time for transparent, straight-foward work by WC which in no way could further disadvantages increasingly anxious and suffering members. The NXS proposition is an unfortunate start to this new business relationship between WC and us marooned investors.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If you go back to the other week when i met with her, I already answered that YES she has a right to list on the NSX and yes Dora they are the only 3 choices we have. That is why I said WAIT and see what JH has to say. If we don't like it we can ask her to put it to a vote to wind it up. Changing the re is a choice. Look if she says that listing on the NSX is if you want your money now and that is the ONLY form at this stage of ANY liquidity, then so be it. Read your PDS folks, it states no guarantee of capital and no g'tee of distributions. So she is using the NSX as a way to unfreeze the funds and get something. NOW if this is only a secondary means and she has an orderly time frame for getting back our capital as investments mature and assets are sold and realised and it is a finite plan and we get distributions in the meantime, that is in effect winding it up AND in the meantime she tries getting misappropriated funds via the courts, then what is wrong with that. The NSX only screws people who have to sell their units, either way we get screwed, but if you can hold out, you get maximum value as the fund starts getting maximum value. This is the way I see it, and if she puts that to us and doesn't try and lock our money in forever in a day, then we should consider. Let's hear the woman out, then exercise our rights if we need to.